Bringing home a 1937 Buick Special

[Sam I am]

4 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Sam, as I said in my precious post, ALL engines from 1950 on had the new water pump.  The broken manifold is NOT from the 1937.  Probably from one of the 263s. The carburetor is not 1937.  Probably from one of thev263s. All I can tell from the engine pictured is that it is 1948 or later. If we can see the other side we can get closer.  OR, the engine number will tell us. Right in front of the distributor on that machined surface.

 

  Ben

Ben, here is a pick of the engine number from the one pictured. I posted it earlier in the thread and I believe it was determined it was a 1952-3. If so, then it has the newer waterpump.  The other manifold set is in good condition and has a carburetor that is held on with three bolts. I can get a better pic of the manifold in the morning. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Sam I am (see edit history)

[jenz38]

Yes, the on Cyl 7/8 angled ,late intake manifold will look a little bit stupid in a 37 ,the Carb would always stay to much "ahead"..

If you have the old Manifold, not angled from the 248 ,i would prefer this.

The carb is with 4 bolt flange, instead of the 3 bolt of our ones and won't fit onto the intake,as Bruce said also.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

To clarify what Jenz is saying.   The 1937 was/is the first 248.  It is the LAST year the engine sat level. 1938 saw the new rear end design in which the drive shaft entered the "punkin" near the bottom instead of near the center.  To keep the universal joint angle in spec, this made angling the engine necessary.  THEN to keep the carburetor level the intake manifold was changed  to the kick up seen in the picture.  SO , while any 248/263 can be installed in the 1937, and any manifold from a 248/263 will FIT,  One must address the carburetor level.  I believe the 1937 intake manifold can be married to a later exhaust manifold. Or a wedge adaptor for the carb..  I THINK.

 

  Ben

[Sam I am]

Oh boy....this is starting to make my head spin. lol

 

Here are the two manifold sets that came with the engines, and the carbs.

[Jim Nelson]

Use the intake / exhaust manifold from the 1937  248  engine.    The intake manifold / exhaust manifold will be in a straight line,  and its a straight bolt on part.     The later 40's and early 50's  (263) had a 'bend' to keep the carb level with the tilt of the engine.     As a quicky - the '37' carb was a three bolt mount that bolted to the 'straight manifold '.     The later 40's  carb's was a 4 bolt mount,  ( ie.  all 263 engine's ), that attached to the 'bent'  intake manifold.     Just some thoughts to help you separate parts.  

[Jim Nelson]

I would not try to get a wedge to level the carb.   You already have the correct manifolds.  Use the three bolt manifold  (straight )  and carb.    I believe the carb is a stromberg AA2 and its a good carb.

[1939_Buick]

6 hours ago, Jim Nelson said:

Use the intake / exhaust manifold from the 1937  248  engine.    The intake manifold / exhaust manifold will be in a straight line,  and its a straight bolt on part.     The later 40's and early 50's  (263) had a 'bend' to keep the carb level with the tilt of the engine.     As a quicky - the '37' carb was a three bolt mount that bolted to the 'straight manifold '.     The later 40's  carb's was a 4 bolt mount,  ( ie.  all 263 engine's ), that attached to the 'bent'  intake manifold.     Just some thoughts to help you separate parts.  

The stepped intake manifold started on series 40 in 1939.

But at times do see the the wrong style fitted.

Exhaust manifold are prone to cracking. If you come across an uncracked exhaust manifold at a reasonable price buy it.

4 bolt series 40 carbs are from much later (1950s?).  320ci series 60-80-90 had 4 bolt carbs

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Sam I am]

Thanks for all the help in clearing it up for me. Now I just need to rebuild a carburetor. 

 

Of course,  if I cannot mate the 37 flywheel up to the crank that had a Dyna-flo behind it, I will have to put a Dyna-flo behind it so I can use my new engine, and if I do that, then new motor mounts, and tranny mount have to be fabbed up, then I will need to use the broken manifold with the new carburetor....

 

Why don't I just throw a small block chev in it and call it good.😂

 

If by chance anyone knows of a 48-53? Buick project car, with a Dyna-flo and a bad or missing engine,  hook me up! 😅

 

Not a bad idea actually,  since I do have that third engine that looks to be in good shape. Oh the squirrels...

[1939_Buick]

Putting in a dyno flow is not easy with the torque tube. So forget it

 

1937 transmission (and1937 bell housing) with a later engine has been done before.

Front (original style) engine mount is easy.

Guys have modified the  later crankshaft. Will be info on the AACA forum somewhere

 

Other help

email group  1937and1938Buicks@groups.io

http://www.3638buickclub.org/  (Matt Hinson)

 

[jenz38]

👍🏼...

Ah, ok..that's with the 4 bolt carb was new to me too.

The Dynaslow will not  fit to the lenght of the '37 Torquetube, I think

Also you will be not satisfied with the OEM rear end ratio of 4.44 because of the additional slip in the Converter instead of the direct 3rd speed on a manual transmission. 

My suggestion, 

Take the 37 flywheel, 4,0 Cherokee Clutch,and the 263 to a machine shop, they can make you a Flywheel with the boltcircle and center hole from the Dynaflow Crank.

Starter ring you can get new from Bob for shrinking it fresh on the new Flywheel.

They can also machining you a adapter insert inside the Crank for the installation of a pilotbearing from a 95 silverado.

This adapter is on outside like a cone, you press it into the crank and tack welding it on outside for safety.

That's like me has done this.

 

 

[jenz38]

This are the drawings , they are in metric This/My Flywheel is also 3 kg lighter than oem, for quicker acceleration.. 😉

[Jim Nelson]

The original flywheel is designed  by Buick engineers to have a smooth operation.   Quicker acceleration is not the issue.   If you want quicker, then  instal a 1955 nail head V8 and be done with it.    Or as one chap suggested,  put in a Chevy and modernize the drive train with open drive shaft.    My  52 Buick 263 with over drive gets me down the road in fine shape.      With the 'normal' heavy traffic,  I get from stop light to stop light  with every one else.   On the fast roads,  I easily cruise 65 mph all day.    Fast enough to not be run over.   The only mod.  I felt I needed living in Florida  was air conditioning to keep these old   retired bones comfortable.   That system was relatively hidden so it amazes many that I had a/c.     Have fun - - -

[Sam I am]

While I understand that readily available parts is a bonus in the long run, like the jeep clutch pack and Silverado pilot bearing, and the long term use should offset the, what I must assume is a rather expensive setup, I really do not want to tear apart a brand new engine that has receipts for $5k in it. (Someone else paid that, not me)I would guess that the machine shop would only want the crank to press the pilot bearing adapter in, not the complete engine. I, personally, would prefer finding out if the 1937 flywheel can be drilled for the 263 crank, and then using your adapter for the pilot bearing and figuring out a method for pressing it into the crank while in the engine. If I am reading threads correctly,  bring the engine up to TDC on number one, and line up the flywheel so the timing mark appears in the inspection cover on the top of the bell housing? 

[Sam I am]

I guess, (if I really want to get the purists riled up) I could purchase a mustang II front end assembly,  put my 5.0/five spd behind it as well as an 8.8 disc brake rear-end I also have.  That would allow me to keep the third pedal, give me an open driveline, and get me 25mpg. 😅

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Don't pay attention to the purist! Do YOUR thing. 

If you use the 263, the front has to come off to install the '37 front plate with the motor mounts.  I suppose the one on the 263 can be modified to eliminate doing so.  Use the '37 flywheel housing.

 

  I like the 5 speed idea!  It can probably be done WITH the torque tube. The hot rod boys do it on fords and chevys.

 

  Ben

 

 

[Sam I am]

Seriously though, if you know of someone in the northwest, maybe even California, that has a 48-52 project (53 Special included) with a dynaflow behind it, with a bad or missing engine, I am interested. Body style does not matter. I can put my rebuilt engine in that and hopefully trade the second 263 that I have, that looks like a good runner, to someone that has a 263 that had a manual transmission behind it, in like condition. 

[jenz38]

Jim ,tell us  your suggestion  for fixing Sams 37 tranny /263 Dynaflow issue.

 

 

A overdrive is nice,I like it too.., but first he must have a  matching engine in front of its Transmission. 

 

In my case ,I never would destroy the original condition of my absolutley traditional 50style build 38 with a v8, especially not a unimaginative SBC.

My Car has a soul and never would hurt him with things like this.

All my original parts stored and 100% demountable.

[jenz38]

Sam , with the complete engine to the Maschineshop is only , because you can let the Engine complete assembled. 

Of course ,you can only take the Crank to it.

 

The pilot bearing adapter is not heavy pressed inside the Crank, yuu can fix it at home with a Hammer without problem, if you take my drawing sizes.

For open drivetrain You need a two link system for rear axle, like the chevy C 10 from mid 60s or a new kit (Speedway motors). The small leaf springs and brackets alone ,aren't stable enough.

For the rest feel free..  it's your Car.

 

[jenz38]

I forgot,  the Crank from a manual Car has a bigger bolt circle and  especially bigger center hole dia than the one from a automatic tranny Crank. There isn't enough meat for  maschining it to match the automatic crank.

[Sam I am]

20 minutes ago, jenz38 said:

I forgot,  the Crank from a manual Car has a bigger bolt circle and  especially bigger center hole dia than the one from a automatic tranny Crank. There isn't enough meat for  maschining it to match the automatic crank.

Very appreciated information. 

[Jim Nelson]

Check with Dave Tacheny in Minnesota and see what he might have.     Just getting a regular tranny crank and bell housing assuming your top side is good.   You know from the rods and up.     Lots of possibilities to keep your cost down and into a standard tranny.     Whew !  !    I feel lucky when I bought a 263 that had already been partially completed for my '38'.     

[Sam I am]

23 minutes ago, Jim Nelson said:

Check with Dave Tacheny in Minnesota and see what he might have.     Just getting a regular tranny crank and bell housing assuming your top side is good.   You know from the rods and up.     Lots of possibilities to keep your cost down and into a standard tranny.     Whew !  !    I feel lucky when I bought a 263 that had already been partially completed for my '38'.     

Looks like the only thing I am missing for the 248-263 conversion is the manual transmission crank. I have the front plate, bell housing, clutch kit, flywheel, and manifold set from the 248. So I would need to find a crank, then look at my paperwork to see how much it needs turned, and swap cranks?

Edited September 18, 2021 by Sam I am
Fat fingers (see edit history)

[jenz38]

👍🏼

[Sam I am]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:24 AM, jenz38 said:

👍🏼

Thanks for the affirmation.  

 

Since it will take some time to do all this prep work, I am going to be bringing home both of the 263s, and car, earlier than planned.  I will install the engine in my garage instead of the po shop. I was thinking about using my small trailer to haul the engines home and googled how much they weigh.  Am I  seeing correctly that an engine weighs about 900 lbs ?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Close

 

  Ben

[MCHinson]

3 hours ago, Sam I am said:

Am I  seeing correctly that an engine weighs about 900 lbs ?

 

For a 263 or 248 I think it is closer to 750 lbs. The 320 is somewhere over 800 lbs.

[Sam I am]

Is there a difference between the 248 crank and the 263?  Reason for asking is that the po was originally going to rebuild the 248 with inserts  and already had the 248 crank turned to accept inserts. He also has a brand new set of connecting rods for the 248 that are for inserts. 

 

So if the crank will now interchange,  then I have a crank.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Sam I am (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Main bearings are all different size on 248.     All same size for 263.  So, no, they will not inter change.

 I forget, do you have the car and engines yet?

 

  Ben

 

  

[Sam I am]

14 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Main bearings are all different size on 248.     All same size for 263.  So, no, they will not inter change.

 I forget, do you have the car and engines yet?

 

  Ben

 

  

Not home yet. I will need to make two trips. Hopefully this Saturday for the engines and the week after for the car.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Looking forward to seeing pictures. We may be able to give more specific help.

 

  Ben

[Sam I am]

Well, I will not be able to bring anything home this weekend. Just could not everything together.  So I kept plugging away at the garage. I had a squirrel moment and started sorting through bolts. I found all the head and main bolts, as well as the flywheel bolts. I thought I had all the pressure plate bolts...until I found seven. So I looked closer and saw that three of them had a small shoulder and the other five did not. I have one more bag to go through but think it is all for the front clip.

 

Oh, and I found these air cleaners. They are not for the 37, but maybe the 50-52 engines?

Edited September 25, 2021 by Sam I am
Forgot the picture (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Yes on the air cleaners.  And some one will want them if you do not.

 

  Ben

[Sam I am]

20 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Yes on the air cleaners.  And some one will want them if you do not.

 

  Ben

Thanks for the affirmation Ben, It makes me feel like my research and questions are starting to pay off. I gather by the layout that they will not fit under the narrower hood of the 37.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

6 hours ago, Sam I am said:

Thanks for the affirmation Ben, It makes me feel like my research and questions are starting to pay off. I gather by the layout that they will not fit under the narrower hood of the 37.

Probably not. They mount across the engine.

 

Ben

[Sam I am]

Sorry for dropping off the face of the earth. We have been dealing with health issues and am sad to say I must sell the Buick.  Really frustrated by having to do this.  It is advertised in the Portland Oregon craigslist as well as the 1937-8 Buick clubs March issue. Package deal includes the two 263 engines.