Stalling 1938 Studebaker? Any ideas?

[Grimy]

Ed, I am so sorry about Haggis.  These things always seem to happen at the worst times.  You knew Rags, who died 3 years ago at 17+, and we waited 18 months to get Mochi, which in retrospect was too long.  Sending to your email as an attachment a wonderful piece called "A Dog's Prayer," which has comforted me through the losses of Rags and Clyde the Wonder Dog.  Hope it is as effective for you....

[maok]

58 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Nope.....I have a pertronix unit coming in to be removed this week............just as bad as the Chinese Kung Flu.....old school is best.........

It definitely would have fixed the dodgy new 'points & condensor' issue. My experience with Pertronix has been 100% so far on 3 vintage cars in the last 3-4 years. IMO, most problems with Pertronix issues are installer error, though, like any parts, regardless of being electronic or mechanical, they have a life.

[SC38dls]

Maok- then it probably would not have worked for me as I would have a better chance of messing up the install than getting it right. With the arthritis in my hands and needing glasses to read anything the odds would be against me. 

Still the main reason I didn’t even consider it was the car is well engineered. So why mess with it, keep it original. The bonus was Ed jumped in and fixed my errors and found the bad parts!  How could o go wrong with that experience. 

[Bloo]

Also putting electronic ignition on a car to solve a problem is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Troubleshoot and fix, just as was seen in this thread. "Upgrades" done to bad running cars just add more uncertainty (and more troubleshooting time) to the mix. Fix the car first. "Upgrades", if wanted can be done later.

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Bloo.......I agree with fixing it first. The true question is what is an upgrade. Engineers of their day were pretty smart fellows. The made the most of the materials and budgets that constrained them. Is there any post 1920 car that had a fundamental  flaw? None that I can think of. Of course, one could almost endlessly add newer technology to a car after its been manufactured. The real question is.........are what you doing really adding to its original design constraints. Where do you stop? Isn’t the real appeal of pre war cars the challenge and enjoyment of using the car as intended when new? I know the joy and pride of making a car operate to the best of its abilities. An early, complicated car that is at 100 percent is a fine experience.......and an unusual one. Very few early cars are dialed in to the point of nothing else will improve it. I never get tired of that feeling. I do get tired trying to keep a bunch of cars to stay at 100 percent.

Edited April 16, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

My distributor is probably 100% sorted properly. I know that because you did it. It will be the only part that is 100%. Now for the rest of the car it will just have to do being the best I can get it. 

[Bloo]

What electronic ignition does is remove the need to make tune up adjustments for long periods of time, because the dwell and timing do not change. I would not do it to the Studebaker or any other 6 volt car. My comments about my Pontiac reflect what I was thinking about during my first week with the car. I was troubleshooting a tough driveability problem and thought maybe I had found it when I saw a bunch of random flashes in the wrong places on the distributor machine. Obviously that was a problem that needed fixing, and I fixed it, but it did not help that much.

 

I was too busy chasing the driveability problem to worry about electronic ignition. Sure, I could have shoved a pertronix in there and it would have immediately solved the ill-fitting points issue, but it still would have run like crap, because the points were not the main issue.

 

After the car was fixed I had time to think about 6 volt ignition modules, and what might go into designing one, and how you might clean up the power supply enough to make it live a long time on an electrically dirty 6 volt system, and have enough voltage left over internally for reliable operation while starting, particularly with a low battery. There just isn't very much voltage to work with. My take is it's not impossible, but close.

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Bloo.......I agree with fixing it first. The true question is what is an upgrade. Engineers of their day were pretty smart fellows. The made the most of the materials and budgets that constrained them. Is there any post 1920 car that had a fundamental  flaw? None that I can think of. Of course, one could almost endlessly add newer technology to a car after its been manufactured. The real question is.........are what you doing really adding to its original design constraints. Where do you stop? Isn’t the real appeal of pre war cars the challenge and enjoyment of using the car as intended when new? I know the joy and pride of making a car operate to the best of its abilities. An early, complicated car that is at 100 percent is a fine experience.......and an unusual one. Very few early cars are dialed in to the point of nothing else will improve it. I never get tired of that feeling. I do get tired trying to keep a bunch of cars to stay at 100 percent.

 

That pretty much nails it. When you start changing the design, YOU become the engineer. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that, if it gets you what you want and you are willing to put in the development time to get things working right, but from TV and other marketing people are led to believe it is easier to just bolt some random stuff on and it will make the car "better". It just isn't so.

 

 

[maok]

5 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

Maok- then it probably would not have worked for me as I would have a better chance of messing up the install than getting it right. With the arthritis in my hands and needing glasses to read anything the odds would be against me. 

Still the main reason I didn’t even consider it was the car is well engineered. So why mess with it, keep it original. The bonus was Ed jumped in and fixed my errors and found the bad parts!  How could o go wrong with that experience. 

 

Its not the actual install of the module into the distributor that is an issue, actually, in most cases, its easier than installing the points and condensor, its making sure the primary resistance of the coil is correct. Pertronix's instructions are very clear about this but most home (even pro mechanics) mis-understand this step. Could the Pertronix fail, yes of course it can, but so do points and condensors. How many have been completely fooled by a condensor failing and driving a mechanic crazy in diagnosing the issue?

 

@Bloo, I have both a 12 volt (Airstream) and a 6 volt ('37 Dodge) car, though they are both running alternators.

[SC38dls]

The Beast Roars again!

 

I’m as happy as a guppy in a gully washer!

It’s like a drum with a hole in it, you just can’t beat it!

It’s twice as nice as my momma’s advice!

 

The parts arrived – they are back on the car. The timing has been set.

 

The 38 Studebaker is back on the road!

Gracie and Sophie are just as happy – they’ve had their summer do’s done also.

 

Sir Edward, I say SIR Edward, as he is the only one I know that has had an audience with the ROYAL family (I’m sure the good Queen will KNIGHT him, her being a car lady, if she reads this thread.) deserves all the credit and appreciation for being a SUPER mechanic, SUPER knowledgeable, SUPER generous, SUPER kind gentleman! I guess that kind of makes him SUPERMAN!  No,  that’s SIR SUPERMAN. 

 

All kidding aside, I do want to thank everyone that has pitched in with advice, encouragement, and support. I was honestly at a loss. Never thought a new coil or the spring on points would be as bad as Ed found.  I have seen bad condensers before but a bad spring in the points set!  Ed has said “take your time and research the problem”. I will add to that – take your time and find the best AMERICAN MADE parts you can. Don’t settle for just the neighborhood auto store, like NAPA, the way I did. I wanted the parts fast. I thought they would be decent, how very wrong I was and caused more problems for my   knowledgeable, kind, generous, genius of a mechanic best buddy (Ed in case you were confused on who I meant its you) to figure out!  (I might have reverted to comic relief again).

 

The only thing left is to find a way to get Ed to work on my car full time? I don’t think it would be the same as working on DUESENBERGS, PIERCE ARROWS, PACKARDS, ROLLS’ or other highend cars he currently gets to fix and drive. But heck he could see Gracie, Sophie and me everyday and the Studebaker would run at 100% !!!!!

 

Thanks Ed you are appreciated.

dave s

Edited April 21, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)