Why does it make me want to Vomit when I see a Chevy small block swap in a Buick?

[Guest]

I posted the following response to a post at another Buick site on swapping a small block chevy into a Buick, What do you guys think? <P>I hope this doesn't turn into a peeing contest but...... I have been a Buick fan for many years, I have NEVER owned a Chevy powered car outside of my '48 Chevy pickup that had a pumped 235 six, my second favorite motor Chevy inline sixes. I don't believe the BS that a Chevy small block is Gods gift to the auto enthusiast, it is just a motor. <BR>PLEASE don't go into how wonderful, cheap, and plentiful the parts are. This is part of the B.S., if I want cheap, I'd buy a V.W bug (hey wait a minute, I have one) that is the least expensive car to get from point A to point B EVER MADE bar NONE. I don't care how easy they are to work on, I have heard it all before. <BR>What I want to know is why would someone do a heart transplant on a car...taking out it's heart and installing an imposter, then still be a fan of the Marque. <BR>Please understand, I have a Chevy pickup with a Buick motor, am I doing the same? <BR>Why doesn't it seem the same? Chevies just don't seem to deserve the same respect as Buicks. Buicks have had the sand kicked in their face for years. I would just as soon pour gas over my Gran Sport and burn it to the ground as to put a Chevy motor in it. I honestly want to know, how do you feel about this. <P><BR>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of anything that moves human beings"<p>[This message has been edited by MARTINSR (edited 02-07-2001).]

[Guest]

I'm behind you 100%. The only thing that makes chevys so popular is there common. But who wants common? I want something unique. I think the idea of a chevy truck with a Buick engine is great. Lets see, the Buick 350 is lighter, smaller, has a longer stoke, more torque, larger ports, Grossly more modern design, is easier to work on, is more reliable....... Why in the world WOULD you go with a chevy? <P>I need to add another excuse though: They don't make any parts for them. Wrong, go to TA, they have every part you'll need.<P>The only problem with a Buick engine is there's not enough out there.<BR><P>------------------<BR>-Keith<P>'87 Lesabre T-type<P>'86 Regal w/350 (still in progress)<P><A HREF="http://members.nbci.com/lesabrettype/index.html" TARGET=_blank>The Lesabre T-type Page</A>

[86 2dr.ltd]

There need to be laws on these kind of things.Chevys should be Chevys and Buicks,Buicks,Oldsmobiles,Oldsmobiles.The engine goes with the sheet metal.<P>You need to find one of those GMC V12 truck motors for the old Chevy!<P>Why'd you want to open this can of worms again?I remember a blood bath on this subject a year back.Must be cabin fever!Should be interesting but not fun.

[Dave@Moon]

I love a good vanilla ice cream. If you get the right kind, it's truly delicious. But I've never once thought <I> "I wonder how this would taste coming out of a box marked Rocky Road?" </I> <P>Lets be honest about what it is we do, we play with our toys. The fact of the matter is, there really is nothing sacred about the integrity of a bunch of iron and plastic that was christened a 1966 "Whatever" once upon a time. <P>But if you ask any true aficionado of any pursuit in life (food, clothes, toy trains, wine, ice cream, etc.), they'll tell you that there is a certain quality about their favorite aspect of their pursuit which is only watered down by blending it with other meterials/items/methods/etc. Mixing and matching styles/manufacturers/varieties/sources/etc. is almost always frowned on. Not many connoisseurs would blend a fine bordeaux with a sherry, or hang a Gaugin immediately next to a Picasso. <P>Think about it, didn't you always feel just a little bit weird playing with a Johnny Lightning on your Hot Wheels track? And how long did your dry heaves last when your sister dressed your G.I. Joe in Ken's clothes?<P>As cars go, there's nothing wrong with Chevys. If your interested in maximum performance for minimum investment (and thought), they are the way to go. But that entire approach to the car hobby (extracting the most for your money), runs counter to the near-luxury car type that Buick once was and should be. It's a bit like sitting down next to someone at Sardi's and saying "I can get you a lot more steak for that price over at the Sizzler!" When a Chevy engine is dropped into a Buick (or a Jaguar, Studebaker, etc.), it is assuming a cache it never was really intended to have.<P>Besides, what's wrong with Chevy bodies? Did we run out of them? They were always at least as attractive as the BOP models, and lighter (and therefore faster) as well.

[Guest]

862door, the difference is I REALLY don't want to hear which is better, I want to know what is in your heads. Now, on the swap idea, I think you are right. It is funner to have a unique motor in you car with the same badge. I just ended up with a Buick in the Truck, but what does it hurt? Why am I sick to my stomach, I mean, is there really a need to put a small block in EVERY car on earth? Why? I have even seen cars like a 1932 Plymouth with every Plymouth detail like the original glass tail lamp lenses but with a SBC!! Why all the passion with the Plymouth stuff, but not simply install a 340? (every bit a good as a 350 Chevy, and the potential is awesome) What made him stop? This car was parked "proudly"(?) with the other Mopars at a rod run area named "Mopar Country". I would never park my Truck in an area Celibrating the Chevy. It is a bastard, not a Chevy. Why don't THESE people see that? <BR>I want to hear from you guys that would do this, what's up? <P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of anything that moves human beings"<p>[This message has been edited by MARTINSR (edited 02-07-2001).]

[86 2dr.ltd]

Empty thought,band wagon jumping,lazyness,lack of creativity,letting others think for you,afraid to get off the fence,who knows.<P>The SMB Chevy in the Jag.is the one that really killed me.I guess the old V-12 was a pain in the butt and Im sure way over priced to rebuild but those people were spending alot to transplant.A throughbred with a donky motor.They cant sell them for nothin.<P>The Ferrari GTO is my favorite body style ever next to the Dino but I would never butcher a Fiero to make either one as that would be a double butcher.The Fiero is what it is and a Dino shell isnt an improvement its just a mutt.Butcher a Vette to make a GTO?Not!Its like a beautiful brunette dying her hair blonde, yuk!now you ugly to me!Fake ,phoney these are all things we were supposed to be raised to believe were undesirable!This is why some of us get a sick feeling when we see things like this.

[Guest]

I like to be different, thats why I got a Buick. My dad was considering putting a chevy motor in his '54 Studebaker but decided to go with a souped up 289 Studebaker V8. The parts are rare and expensive, but thats what gets you noticed at a car show. There are many ways to build a car and the engineering in the engine is just as fasinating to me as the rest of the car. Thats why I say upgrade within your brand.<BR> On the other hand, if your 1930's era car will never run again a chevy transplant is better than letting it rust. <BR> I would never buy a Volkswagon. They are total death traps. <BR> <BR> Why doesn't anyone soup up Jaguar or Rolls-Royce engines?<P>My two cents,<BR>Tomsriv<BR>71 Riv<p>[This message has been edited by Tomsriv (edited 02-08-2001).]

[NTX5467]

Part of the old hot rod culture was putting luxury car engines where they didn't come. It was cool to have a custom Lincoln with a Cadillac ohv V-8 in place of the Lincoln's flathead or a Chrysler HEMI or Buick in a Ford. Then along came the 265 cid Chevy V-8 and that all changed.<P>In those earlier times, drive train swaps were a way of life. But since everyone had a good ohv V-8 by the late 1950s, things changed.<P>I look at modern street rod engine swaps like I do other things on the car when I see it. Like the correctly restored Plymouth with a Chevy motor, when I see a correctly restored Chevy at a car show with an inexpensive auto supply battery instead of some kind of ACDelco battery, it is a red flag that the owner did not want to go to the extra expense or effort to get good stuff for the car and what other corners did they cut in doing the car (that you can't see). <P>For all of the street rods with motors of incorrect family heritage, if the concept of "tissue rejection" ever happens for them, there will be bunches of small block Chevy motors laying on the side of the road as the car disassociated itself from them.<P>I feel that if someone is really into a Ford, GM, or Mopar product, they ought to take the extra effort and degree of execution necessary to make it a "total" vehicle instead of a "cross breed" with respect to the ENTIRE drive train. In many cases, it's much easier than you think.<P>Yet the perceived "easiest and cheapest" course of action is the small block Chevy V-8. It might be easily recognizable, but it certainly is not designed to the best standards of power/efficiency with respect to other GM engines. <P>But, one key item not yet mentioned, is its size and ease of packaging compared to other GM engines. It and the Ford 289/302 engine family are extremely compact and short in overall height. Only other engine that might compare in that respect is the 3.8L Buick V-6. <P>So, in spite of our orientations, the 350 Chevy motor is the socially acceptable path of least resistance to many. I find it amazing that even some car people don't understand that they could have done something else cheaper that what they did, but doing that outside of their normal supply chain is "foreign" to them.<P>Other considerations are the lack of support from GM for non-Chevy motors in the crate motor program. Plus many of the larger cars and their motors have tended to vanish from the salvage yards as they "crush out" from time to time--as one salvage yard operator mentioned, the heavy cars are the first to go.<P>As long as it's their money, I guess they can do as they please, but don't expect me to stop and drool over something I've seen too many times before. And if my concept of vehicular tissue rejection ever does take place . . . . . (hehe) . . . a lot of people are going to wonder what they did wrong.<P>Enjoy!

[Guest]

NTX, on your "tissue rejection" thought I'd like to add....If every car that had a "Corvette Motor" really did, there would be a wrecking yard somewhere that was about a hundred thousand acres with rows of Vettes all sitting nose high from the lack of engine weight with the hoods on the roof. <P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of anything that moves human beings"

[The Old Guy]

Martinsr, I'm with you !!! I went to a lot of extra work to put a Buick 455 in my 37 coupe, but the final result was what I wanted,a unique car with all matching components.I think the mystique of the SBC is that anyone can build one ,and every catalog lists enough in the way of components ,that you don't have to do any engineering at all ,because there are literally hundreds of the same car already on the road.The first rod I built was a 32 Ford 2dr with a flathead ,and the second was a 51 chev with a 331. Cadillac, but at that time the SBC was a brand new engine ,and I couldn't afford one ,so I had to go with the Caddy

[Guest]

Aside from the lack of ingenuity, creativity, etc.; What is in the "heads" of those that put SBC's in non-make cars is the media (Hot Rod / Car Craft / Hot Rod (wannabe's) etc.). These publishers are at the root of this mediocrity. Now, (to dispel any thought that I am a "theory" nut) this is probably not some conspiracy with GM, but might as well be (Why doesn't GM offer any other crate engine other than the highly touted 350HO/ZZ4/502?). It seems this all began when the car "rags" began referring to "Mouse" motors and "Rat" motors. These articles were/are mostly in reference to Chevy. You can go back and look at all the headlines: "Low budget blah blah", "Bolt on blah, blah", "750HP from YOUR 350!". Marketing(from GM and after market producers)and an endless supply of "BS" from car magazines has brought us all to this point. I could take this topic on many tangents, but would get away from my main point: The publishers of car magazines are at the root of this process. Just my $0.02.

[Guest rlbleeker]

Last fall I bought a very nice '37 Special Business Coupe hot rod project car. It came with a rebuilt small block chevy and th350, as well as a FatMan Mustang II front clip. When I asked him about the the small block chevy, he told me that the car had a 401-dynaflow when he got it. The engine smoked under acceleration and the tranny leaked. He didn't like that, and (in his mind) the quickest/cheapist fix was a bone stock 350/th350 combo. He chose the smallblock because FatMan sells a clip setup with smallblock engine mounts. The bottom line was he couldn't care less what was under the hood as long as it worked. I'm of course thinking 425-4speed.

[Guest]

Lack of ingenuity...creativity...VOMIT????<BR>Hey guys, lighten up. I didn't realize that a SBC was a "bolt-in" in an old Buick. I was under the misunderstanding that you still had a fair amount of engineering, fabricating, and creating to do in order to install the engine, trans, steering, brakes, rear end, drive line...etc etc. I stand corrected. Why didn't Buick have the foresight to engineer their equipment to just bolt in like Chevy did?? And, I LOVE MY BUICK!!!

[Guest]

To Ljhill<BR>If my memory is good it is Chevy that did not<BR>use the same bolt pattern as the rest of the GM divisions,IE tubo 350 from a chevy only fit chevy, tubo 350 from Buick could bolt to Pontiac, Olds or Caddy with out adapter plate<BR>or modifiying the nose of torque converter<BR>to fit crank. I'd really rather have a buick!<P>

[Guest]

To JPC,<BR>I have no doubt that what you say about the Turbo 350 transmissions is correct. I was just kidding the guys about the general tone of these posts as I read them is that anyone with half a set of sockets and a #2 phillips can install a Chevy drive train in an old Buick, but to put a Buick in a Buick....Wheeeew!!! God should be so talented. Just Kidding!!!!!

[Guest]

well, vomit, there are worse things in life<BR>But, the only cool motor in a Buick would of course be an old style 392 Hemi, right??!!

[Guest walowe]

Very interesting thread......Home from work, just finished (guzzled) an Old Milwaukee "tall boy" (5.9%, and a real deal up here in Canada)and so now I feel a little talkative. I bought my 67 Sportwagon in 1987, stored it and ignored it, basically, in 1990. Most years I went to look at it, and fire it up at least once, one year I didn't visit all. Two years ago, I decided to get off my butt, pull out the wallet, and pay some attention to my investment. The spark plug wires were rusted on to 4 out of 8 plugs. To make a long story short, in the last two years, I had the rad recored, overhauled the brakes, replaced the bias-belted tires with nice radials, replaced all belts and hoses, replaced the "2-piece" exhaust manifold on the left side of the 340 with an un-cracked unit, put a complete dual exhaust system on, and proceeded to drive it last summer for about 1,000 trouble-free miles. What's my point? Except for the dual exhaust, and the radials, the car is just the way it was when it first hit the road in '67. Pertronix ignition? I think not. Maybe my gas mileage isn't optimum, but the points have been in there for 13 years! For a wagon, I don't have a complaint about the way it runs. <BR>I wouldn't dream of putting a Chev engine in my Buick, and I wouldn't dream of putting a Stage I 455 in a nice 1970 Chevelle SS either. Still, when I see such combos put together by someone else, I simply say "Oh, that's interesting". So far, I have never run in to an owner of such a hybrid that asked me to help pay for his/her machine. So, whatever turns your crank, as they say.......<P>

[Guest]

i think the point here is 'why do we build these cars?' alot of folks, most of whom put sbc in everything, build the car to get themselves noticed by the uninitiated/hot rod/ carcraft crowd.<P>i build my cars to get noticed by people who have and eye for details, and appreciate ingenuity. so they tend to feature off-brand or antique stuff that is just plain neat. (wait till if finish my international harvester powered t-bucket <P>i have seen 32 fords. i have seen tri-5 chevies. i have seen 49-51 mercs with buick sidetrim and desoto teeth. i have seen them all with a SBC under the hood. everyone creative is plain tired of those cars. everyone who likes their parts to bolt right in loves them...<P>i think the gist of your problem MARTIN is that you are a closet perfectionist.<P>building a 37 buick instead of a ford is a step toward individualism. you are just upset that the builder is unable to make the next step toward being fully individual by doing something outside the lines (drawn by the major car mags) with the engine.<P>but, that is sort of unfair. they have a buick bodyshell, that is half way there...<P>------------------<BR>allan<BR>--------------<BR>50 special, 455/th400<BR>64 stude gt hawk, 289/auto<BR>76 poncho GP, 400/th400

[86 2dr.ltd]

I could go for a 1970-73 Camaro with a 350 or a early 70's C20 with a 350 thats about it.

[Guest]

I think the car magazines have gotten a lot better in the last few years. Car Craft especially. They have done build ups on BOP and Cadillac engines, and they show you the best parts and how to build them cheap. they even did an AMC engine a few years ago.<P>Tomsriv

[Guest]

Face it guys and gals Buick owners are a unique breed! Just remember when your walking past these sbc "hotrods" that you try not to point and laugh too much or you may have a heard of stampeding "sheep" after you!<P>------------------<BR>Lee C.<BR>81 Electra Park Ave (350 original)<BR>83 Electra Park Ave (307 that wont die)

[Bill Stoneberg]

I hate the SBC motor swap into anything where it didn't belong in the first place. I would much rather see something different and unique.<BR>I did see a swap that made my blood boil and me to WANT the car. Talk about unique.. <BR>A gentleman with a 63 Rolls Royce came to me wanting to trade his car for one of mine. I din't even think I wanted the Rolls until he opened the hood and there sat a beautiful Merlin V12 Aircraft Engine. MASSIVE horsepower and Torque. 3500 hp @ 2500 rpm.<BR>It wasn't a hack job either, whoever did it made it look great. Not to mention it shook every window in the house.<BR>Now that is the kind of engine swap I like.<BR>Bill <BR>

[66400]

So what about all of the Buicks that left the plant with 305-350 Chevy engines, Estate sw's, Regals and the last run of Roadmasters, among others?

[Guest]

Just read my last post. It does imply a harsh tone and was not meant to. <P>Yes, the car "mag.s" have gotten better regarding thier features and "projects". I believe one of them did run a feature on a '65 Special (wagon) with a salvaged 455. There was also an Old's 455 project.<P>If I recall correctly, back in the late 70's GM got into real trouble for putting Chev. engines into Buick/Olds. Folks were paying for Buick, getting home, opening the hood, and there it was....."Chevrolet". Talk about "donkey-cars"! I have not heard that this was done in the recent past.<P>Lastly, I don't dislike Chevrolet. I do own a SBC (327)(I feel the SBC is basically a good engine), but it maintains it's place in my '68 Bel Air wagon. I just wouldn't put it in my Buick....but I would put a 455 in the Chev.! As was said, "what ever turns yer crank".<P>Perhaps I have a biased form of hypocricy?<P>

[Guest]

66400, They came that way so they are correct. By the way they don't make a small block Chevy anymore, it's a "GM Corporate Small block" They are still a SBC to me but that is what GM calls it.<BR>And it is a shame they didn't have a EFI 455 to put in those Roadmasters! <P>This is not answering the question I posted. I hope no one can argue the point that the SBC is a great engine, it's cheap, light, easy to swap, parts are easy to get, tons of speed equipment, and I love to see them....in the "correct" car. Even a late fifties period piece Duece coupe, a six two, Vette valve cover, 283 is PERFECT. Or a 55 Chevy, theres one at the shop where I work that has a 389 Pontiac with tripower, it looks out of place, it should have a SBC or if you realy wanted to be cool.....a 348/409.<P>My question is why does a guy insult a Buick my putting a SBC in it and THEN still wave the BUICK colors, like he is proud of the BUICK marque??????<P> If he wants to bastardize his car (it is HIS after all) that's his business, but why....I ask again, would he Proudly wear a Buick jacket, like he cares about Buicks?? <P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of anything that moves human beings"<p>[This message has been edited by MARTINSR (edited 02-09-2001).]

[Guest]

MARTINSR<BR> I think that Buick is different than chevy in that more people build Buicks for their external looks. While many people build chevys for speed. How many primer gray souped up Buicks do you see? How many Buicks do you see with nice paint and interior and stock/dirty engines. So maybe those people that wave the buick flag and have chevy engines know nothing about engines and just want their car to run. Maybe the resto shop they took it to recommended a chevy so thats what they got.<P>Tomsriv

[Dave@Moon]

I'm...guessing...that MARTINSR skipped a few pages in this month's Bugle! <P>By the way, I'm glad to hear that the AMC V8 is still at least getting <I> some </I> attention. The best kept muscle car secret of the millenium--easiest and cheapest 12 second car--401 Gremlin.

[Guest]

Okay you guy, I am sick and tired of people giving me crap cause I did things MY WAY! So what if I put a 1340cc Harley Shovelhead engine into a VW bug, and swapped the bug's little ecno-engine into my 70 GS, and put icing on the cake by shoe-horning the Buicks 455 into the Harley! LMAO<P>1972 VW 30.10 et <BR>1970 Buick GS 38.77 et 1/8 mile (28mpg)<BR>1976 Harley FLH 1.09 1/4 mile

[86 2dr.ltd]

Hoy says I!It be the turtle and the hare!

[NTX5467]

Perhaps what we could do is look at these engine swaps with a certain perspective. If the vehicle was built "back when", it was very possible it would have had a Buick, Olds, or Cadillac engine, or a Chrysler Hemi as those were typically the "salvage yard go-fast" options of that era. Check out the car magazines of the early 1960s and those swaps (and adapters to put anything anywhere in front of most any transmission) were there. Buick Nailheads, Olds Rockets, Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Chrysler Hemis (all with multiple carb setups) were the upscale engines of choice. They had more tire-smoking torque than any 265-283 Chevy motor back then. That's the way things were back then and I like to still see those cars when they are around.<P>In modern times, GM, Ford, and Chrysler all have great crate motor programs yet the "hands down" choice of power seems to be a Chevy engine. Funny thing is that many of the other GM engines are not significantly heavier and will make more power (in stock form) with greater economy than the modified Chevy 350 "engine of choice". <P>But "everyone" knows how to work on a Chevy V-8 and what makes them tick--key issue to the "unitiated". They could well choose a Buick or Olds vehicle for their style, a Chevy engine/trans combination as it is well-supported by the "industry", aftermarket a/c, and whatever else they wanted to blend the old with the new.<P>A somewhat innovative and easier (?) way if you have the facilities to do it is to put a vintage Buick on a later model complete chassis. One of our local members took a '49 Roadmaster Coupe and plunked in down on a 1979 Cadillac Fleetwood chassis. The wheelbase is the same and most of the body mounts lined up with minimal work. To look at it, the only give-away was the Cadillac Borrani wire wheels and 4 wheel disc brakes--not to mention how it moved and cornered. It would have been nicer with a 455 Buick under the hood, but was at least totally late model GM.<P>One of our other members wanted to wring his neck for doing what he did to that car! But the owner pointed out that he saved it from the crusher plus put it back on the street in a manner that made it easy and fun to drive. Just depends on where the priorities are.<P>As in other things, too many people tend to take the "easy way out" to be like other people and feel like they better fit in to a particular societal group. Those of us who want to see the later engine be true to the marque is one group and those that obviously don't care as long as it turns the tires are the other group. <P>One of the worst cases of a "wrong" engine was when a customer had a 1940s Lincoln Continental with a V-12. He pulled the Lincoln engine and manual trans, sold them to a guy who needed them, and grafted in a 1970s Cadillac engine/trans setup. He'd been through the flathead Fords and their poor reliability on road trips in his earlier life and wanted a modern engine in the classier early Lincoln. I gently questioned "Why a Cadillac and not a Ford 460". The best excuse (not "reason" in this case) he had was that he could get the Cadillac engine (a real luxury car engine and not a mere Ford engine) and he had a buddy at the local Cadillac dealer who could help him with factory parts and knick knacks to make it work. Guess he was trying to get back at Ford for his earlier woes when he tried to keep his flatheads "all Ford". <P>I could not argue his point, but still would have put a 460 or FE family Ford engine in it (maybe a Mercury-specific 410 or Lincoln 462 variant)if it would have been mine. He knew what he wanted to do and did it.<P>Enjoy!<P>

[Guest]

Martin, I have a 55 riviera 264 2 dr ht , ALL STOCK , ex wheels that are the Buick chrome Mags , she looks GOOOOOD , any how i have been ask if it has a Chivy s/b ,I answer NO all NAILHEAD some lookat me and answer NO *&^% still , DAMN right i answer , and she will stay that way , I had a 55 chivyRAG TOP 265 back 40+ years ago , And I"ll take this old gal any day. Old Buicks Never Die JUST GET BETTER >..

[Guest]

55 Riv, from all the Buick nuts, thanks.<P>NTX, you missed the idea of my question. I know why all the "Sheep" install Chevies. <BR>My question is why would you install a Chevy and THEN go to a Buick club and be shocked at the negitive reponse you get? Why would you want to wave the Buick colors? You obviously don't give a darn about the marque, then go among the Buick fans, like you are one of them? I am just mystified by this. I don't think it would happen in any other hobby, I mean would a guy bring a motor boat to a sailboat race? <BR><P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of anything that moves human beings"

[86 2dr.ltd]

Or a dog sled to a snowmobile race? No but a snowmobiler will drive right strait into a dog-sled race.Bet they drive Chevys.

[Guest]

I'm dropping my 470hp 455 in soon. I won't be putting 12 bolt or 9" in either! Just rebuilding my BUICK 8.2 with Moser axles. I will not downgrade my Skylark with Cheavy anything! Just my 2 cents.

[NTX5467]

MARTIN, "the sheep" just don't know any better. As I mentioned earlier, how such swaps are viewed depends on the point of reference of those doing and also those who view the results. By their point of reference, they've done something neat. Our point of reference can be different. We might shake our heads, but many of those in the street rod ranks would give them the attention and accolades they are seeking.<P>While I might not condemn them, I might not praise them either unless there is definite merit to what they did or how they did it. In our point of reference here, putting a Buick motor in a vintage Buick vehicle is of much greater merit than doing putting something else in there. <P>With respect to the Roadmaster I mentioned, putting it on a later GM chassis is of more merit than cobbling in a later engine of more power and performance with the stock suspension and brakes. Installing a Buick 455 in there would have made it better also. In that particular case, some additional attention to details would have had a "factory look" which would have been neater still.<P>We can debate the issue of modified vehicles until the paint flakes off, but I am of the orientation that factory marque blood lines need to be maintained if at all possible. This might involve enlarging one's circle of friends and advisors (finding new territory?) from previous levels and not folowing the path of least resistance--or what appears to be the path of least resistance. But in some cases (some Jaguars, for example) keeping the factory engine (when it breaks) can be a very expensive exercise in futility as it will break again.<P>They bring their Buicks (in this example) to our gatherings and expect to be unconditionally accepted. In one respect we should do this as it is, afterall, a Buick that has been "saved" from extinction. Yet I do not believe we should totally shun them for putting a non-Buick engine or other components in/on a Buick vehicle. Just because they might have used "poor judgment" on the engine issue in no real reason to keep them out unless a "Buick manufacturered and powered" stipulation is on the entry form.<P>And we can turn this around also. At the last BCA national meet in Flint, in the swap meet area was a 1970s Dodge van with a Buick straight 8 under the engine cover. Once a motor home came into the shop--a Chevrolet chassis but with a Buick 455 in it. <P>I have an associate who has a 1980 Camaro Berlinetta he races in NHRA drag racing--with a Buick 455. He took it to a local GS club race event and got some trophies. While they liked the Buick motor, the fact that it was in a Chevrolet body didn't look to good to them, but the stipulation was "Buick powered" so it was admitted (plus some of his racing associates were there who could vouch for the car). He certainly couldn't take it to Super Chevy Sunday with their "Chevrolet powered" stipulation.<P>Everyone has the reasons for what they do in the automotive hobby area. We might not understand or condone them, but hopefully we can tolerate them and maybe gently steer these hobbiests toward groups with orientations more similar to what they have done (or not done) to their vehicles.<P>Remember that famous line from "Bambi"? "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." We should be able to see the positive aspects of most anything, whether we want to look that far or not--be it uniqueness, quality of workmanship, materials, great paint work, etc. We might not agree with what they did or how they did it, but the fact is that it's their money, their vehicle, and we don't have to own it or buy it from them. In these situations, I typically walk around the car and look it over to see what they've done, make positive comments about what is neat about the car, not mention the choice of engine unless it is of the same marque, say "Neat car" and walk on not obsessing about things I might have done differently.<P>In any event, if vehicular "tissue rejection" ever occurs, you know what'll still be running and what will not.

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MARTINSR:<BR><B>My question is why would you install a Chevy and THEN go to a Buick club and be shocked at the negitive reponse you get? Why would you want to wave the Buick colors? You obviously don't give a darn about the marque, then go among the Buick fans, like you are one of them? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is still a Buick car, right? The person how wanted to know about the SBC V8 in a Regal was asking for help, not criticism. It makes sense to go to a Buick board to find out information about a Buick car. I don't think this guy was waving a "Buick flag" just by posting on a message board. If you want to convince him that a Buick motor is a better choice, than great, but you don't need to "negitive" to do this. <P>I do like Buick car/Buick motor, but some people like the SBC and the Regal. So why not? You shouldn't have to get approval to get help.<P><P>------------------<BR>Rich George - b4black@flash.net <BR><B>BEFORE BLACK Website</B> - <A HREF="http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge" TARGET=_blank>http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge</A>

[Guest]

I wasn't even speaking to the guy who left the post on the engine swap. I was directing my question to the guy who told him how to do it with the signature ....<P>1984 Buick LeSabre Limited (Chevy 355 powered)<BR>Edlebrock, Hedman, Weiand, Crane, Taylor, Moroso, Autometer, <BR>Cloyes, Clevite, ARP, NGK, Federal Mogul, Summit, Melling, Bell,<BR>Kenwood, Crunch, JL Audio, Pioneer, Sony, JVC, Carbine, Motorola<P>Why the heck is he doing boasting about that? <P>Like the Harley Davidson bumper sticker says, "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand" <BR> <BR>And if I can get up on my soap box for a minute. Anybody who wants to ask or tell how to install a Chevy motor in a Buick has NO PLACE in a Buick site. They don't have a clue about the RESPECT Buicks and Buick fans deserve and the LACK of RESPECT it is giving to them with this VERY obvious faux pas. <P>I have been on sights like the AACA and posted an anwser about modifing a car. The second I got a negitive response from the regulars I APOLOGIZED and NEVER went against the "rules" again. If you read the posts I have left to the Guy with the Lesabre with comparisons THINK about them, am I really wrong? <P>Would you go to a Synagogue and be upset when they didn't want to hear about your belief in Jesus being the son of God? <P>Sorry, I don't see your point in defending them or telling me off. <BR><P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of anything that moves human beings"

[Guest]

WOW, you really read into things way too far. <P>Just by posting his signature, he is "boasting"? <P>By defending the original poster, I am "telling you off"? Geez, lighten up.<P>You offered your opinion, and solicited others. So I gave you one.<P>If this is what Buick is about, then I don't want to understand. I just like my car, that happens to be a Buick with a Buick motor.<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Rich George - b4black@flash.net <BR><B>BEFORE BLACK Website</B> - <A HREF="http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge" TARGET=_blank>http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge</A><BR><p>[This message has been edited by b4black (edited 02-25-2001).]

[ranchero]

this is ridiculous.<P>i've got a riviera that came from buick with an oldsmobile engine.<P>i've got a caballero that came from gmc with a chevrolet engine.<P>i've got an f-150 that came from ford with a mazda manual transmission. <P>why should you care if the makers don't?<P>i say "keep 'em on the road". i much prefer to be able to see a still on the road 30, 40, 50, or 60 year old car than worry about what propels it. whatever it takes! if the chevrolet v-8 in a buick or a cadillac v-8 in a lincoln works and preserves the owner's enjoyment of the car, then do it!<P>i hope no vomit falls on my riviera 'cause buick put a crappy olds v-8 in it!

[86 2dr.ltd]

Its not ridiculous Chevy engines are everywhere.People are throwing out perfectly good engines because they had some know it all tell them there Buick or Oldsmobile would be allright if they put a Chevy 350 in it.This is the only thing thats ridiculous.There apparently are alot of people out there that believe they cant get any power out of a Buick because someone has said so.This is ridiculous!<P>Last summer I cruised to a few local shows hoping to see some Buicks and Oldsmobiles,RIGHT!There was one 1st gen Riv.,one desperate late 60's early 70's Skylark(for sale).Some one had a beautiful 442 and one guys got a 73'Delta 88 Royal.Thats it period.One show only had the 442.One show didnt have any.There was however a full row of Chevelles,a good handfull of Cameros,Firebirds a Vette or two,the various GTO's,Galaxies,Fairlanes a Mustang or three,a good amount of early 60's Impalas,at which point I'll express my feelings about the 60, AWESOME!The handfull of various Mopars,but only 0-4 Buicks or Oldsmobiles.This is ridiculous!Imagine if 2 of them had Chevy engines!That would have been ridiculous!<P>Didnt a guy post here recently about a Buick 455 for his Oldsmobile and most here said keep the Olds.That wasnt ridiculous.<P>I'm not big on perfect restorations,OEM everything,proper nuts and bolts but if you put a Cadillac engine in a Ford it is no longer a Ford and the Caddys missing a motor.<P>If you put a Chevy in a Buick you are not into Buicks your a Chevy wanabe!Your saying to us that the engines that come in the cars were into ain't good enough.People that post these questions here either hav'nt thought about things much before or have thought all to well!<P>Mistake or Devious?