36 Tail lamp mystery

[Pete in PA]

I'll start this thread using several successive posts to keep the appropriate photo(s) with the text.

I'll soon be back in my rented garage to make some progress on my D2 standard sedan.

One of the things I've been working on over the winter is the left rear fender and broken tail lamp.  At some point something made it over the rear bumper and whacked the tail lamp, breaking its bracket and bending the fender.

 

Since I was looking for better access to the fuel filler neck (still battling that one) I decided to remove the left rear fender.  I also decided to remove and examine the broken tail lamp.

 

This is the broken tail lamp along with a pic of the part number embossed into the mounting bracket.  This number (635417) does not appear in the 1936 Dodge MAster Parts List.  This could be because the embossed number is an engineering number.  This is certainly the case with Mopar casting numbers of the mid-1960s (you won't find them in a parts catalog).  Also, JPage has speculated that, since my car is a fairly early 36 (built November of 1935) the part on my car could be from 1935.  Or it could have been replaced with a 1935 part.  Anyone care to speculate?

[Pete in PA]

I should also add that the Master Parts Book shows that the tail lamps used on my car, a non-trunk standard sedan is unique to that body style and the two door non-trunk model.  This is not good since non-trunk models made up only a tiny percentage of D2 production so finding the part I need won't be easy.

 

Anyway, one of the many parts that came with my car was a spare LH tail lamp that I originally thought was a swap meet-found replacement part for my car that the PO never got around to installing.  No such luck.  Here's a shot of my broken tail lamp along with the "spare" that won't work.  While it does seem to mount on the top surface of the rear fender the shape of the bracket is different.  The part number on the spare (641006) tells me that it might be from a 37.

[Pete in PA]

As I mentioned in earlier threads my D2 came with a whole bunch of parts from a 36 P1 Touring sedan that my car's PO had pillaged.  Sadly the fact that the donor car was a touring model (with trunk lid) the tail lamps are mounted to the side of the body and not to the tops of the rear fenders.  So I have a very, very nice pair of 1936 P1 tail lamps that do me no good.  Can someone with a 1936 Plymouth Master Parts List look at these numbers and see if they appear in group 8-55?  These tail lamps may at least serve the purpose of clarifying whether the number embossed on the bracket can be found in the Master PArts List.  Thanks to all!

 

First the LH side showing part number 655861:

Edited May 7, 2019 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[Pete in PA]

And now the RH side showing part number 655860:

Edited May 7, 2019 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Die-cast can be welded with low temp. rod and a small torch. Some chrome platers will have a person, inhouse or out, to do that.

 

If you have two of the 641006 and the light sits correctly on it, why not use them for the time being while you search and search and... for the correct ones? As usual with these things, a week after you present the finished car the right ones will turn up!

Edited May 7, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[frankngin]

The lights shown are to be mounted on the side or trunk area of the Vehicle. They are short and chubby like a 38 Desoto. Where are your mounting holes on the car, side or fender??

Frank

[Steve9]

I had a 35 sedan, no trunk like yours. I believe the tail lamps will be similar to the coupe models too. Finger off the panic button, you’ll be OK. 35 and 36 should be the same.

[36 D2 Coupe]

The part number on the spare (641006) tells me that it might be from a 37.

Hi Pete

I went and had a look at the bases of the tail lights from my '36 Dodge D2 RS Coupe. Numbers are 641005 Rh and 641006 LH. They mount on the fenders OK and as far as I know, they are original to the car. It is a Canadian built unit but I doubt that there were any differences. I can't find ANY of those numbers in my master parts manual or in the 1936 Dodge parts manual. Don't know where these would be listed.

Good luck!

 

Jim

[Pete in PA]

Jim, thanks so much for taking the time to look at the tail lights on your car and post about your findings.  It's pretty much what I expected: the numbers embossed on the actual part will not match those in the parts catalog.

The only surprise is that your car has 641006 on the actual part, mine has 635417, and the parts catalog says that two door and four door no-trunk sedans use the same replacement part.  Hmmm.

My search continues!

Edit on 6/6/2021: Wow, I just noticed that it is 2 years to the day that I made my original post.  Now there's a coincidence!

Anyway, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that reply to Jim because he has a rumble seat coupe and, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Dodge Parts Book indicates that only the 4 door sedan and the 2 door sedan use 635417 (LH).  Therefore Jim's rumble seat coupe would not have the 635417 part found on my car.  It seems that rumble seat coupes used 641006 and I guess that confirms that the loose part I got with my D2 is in fact from a rumble seat coupe.  That's good to know and thanks again. Jim.  Now I just need to look at the parts book to see what other body styles use that rumble seat coupe stand.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[Potmetalman]

On 5/6/2019 at 6:26 PM, Pete in PA said:

I'll start this thread using several successive posts to keep the appropriate photo(s) with the text.

I'll soon be back in my rented garage to make some progress on my D2 standard sedan.

One of the things I've been working on over the winter is the left rear fender and broken tail lamp.  At some point something made it over the rear bumper and whacked the tail lamp, breaking its bracket and bending the fender.

 

Since I was looking for better access to the fuel filler neck (still battling that one) I decided to remove the left rear fender.  I also decided to remove and examine the broken tail lamp.

 

This is the broken tail lamp along with a pic of the part number embossed into the mounting bracket.  This number (635417) does not appear in the 1936 Dodge MAster Parts List.  This could be because the embossed number is an engineering number.  This is certainly the case with Mopar casting numbers of the mid-1960s (you won't find them in a parts catalog).  Also, JPage has speculated that, since my car is a fairly early 36 (built November of 1935) the part on my car could be from 1935.  Or it could have been replaced with a 1935 part.  Anyone care to speculate?

 

Were you able to replace the tail lamp bracket? If not, it can be repaired. 

James Ruther 

Pot Metal Welder

[Potmetalman]

On 5/7/2019 at 2:02 PM, Spinneyhill said:

Die-cast can be welded with low temp. rod and a small torch. Some chrome platers will have a person, inhouse or out, to do that.

 

If you have two of the 641006 and the light sits correctly on it, why not use them for the time being while you search and search and... for the correct ones? As usual with these things, a week after you present the finished car the right ones will turn up!

Soldering has its place, but there's not comparison to actually welding Potmetal. It is not done with low temp filler and butane torch. It takes very unique equipment to get it done without destroying the part(s). Pot metal is a very different animal when it comes to welding it. Many do it with a jewelers torch, but it still tends to distort and not be very perise with respect to doing a solid job. The torch tends to put too much heat and causes internal boiling leaving air pockets, and that leads to a weak repair - and is some cases almost as weak as a soldered repair. 

 

James Ruther 

Pot Metal Welder 

 

[Pete in PA]

James, I'll take a closer look at my broken bracket and decide if I want to try having ti repaired.  My recollection is that it is not simply cracked, it is distorted as well.

[Potmetalman]

3 hours ago, Pete in PA said:

James, I'll take a closer look at my broken bracket and decide if I want to try having ti repaired.  My recollection is that it is not simply cracked, it is distorted as well.

Even if it's distorted, bent etc. I can straighten it if you wish?😊👍🇺🇲

[Pete in PA]

The new year is off to a good start in the "finding parts for my D2" department.  In a  random search on ebay I discovered a seller in Kentucky who listed several different pairs of tail lamp stands.  One of the sets must be from a D2 slant back because the embossed part numbers match those on my car.  One of the stands has a small damaged area and naturally it is the side I need (the left side).  No matter.  I bought the pair.  They should arrive on Monday.

I'll see how bad the damage is and then decide what I want to do about it.  Maybe I'll send it to forum member potmetalwelder and see what he can do with it.  Or maybe I'll send my mangled original to him now that I have a usable spare.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Pete in PA (see edit history)

[Potmetalman]

1 hour ago, Pete in PA said:

The new year is off to a good start in the "finding parts for my D2" department.  In a  random search on ebay I discovered a seller in Kentucky who listed several different pairs of tail lamp stands.  One of the sets must be from a D2 slant back because the embossed part numbers match those on my car.  One of the stands has a small damaged area and naturally it is the side I need (the left side).  No matter.  I bought the pair.  They should arrive on Monday.

I'll see how bad the damage is and then decide what I want to do about it.  Maybe I'll send it to forum member potmetalwelder and see what he can do with it.  Or maybe I'll send my mangled original to him now that I have a usable spare.

Yes Pete. 

Text or email me, or pot a photo or two so we can see what you end up with when they arrive. I'm sure I can help you clean 'em up. 😊👍

Thanks brother!

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Potmetalwelder (see edit history)

[jpage]

Looking at the photo Pete, the crack is in a spot that is not really going to compromise the casting if you're careful. I think that it could be repaired by carefully tapping it back in place and filling the crack with JB weld then finish it like you would for paint. had one headlamp mount that was broken and the JB weld fixed it.

[Potmetalman]

13 hours ago, Potmetalwelder said:

Yes Pete. 

Text or email me, or pot a photo or two so we can see what you end up with when they arrive. I'm sure I can help you clean 'em up. 😊👍

Thanks brother!

 

Hey Pete. 

In my professional opinion and experience, you're far better off doing absolutely nothing rather than attempting to repair with jbweld. You see, pot metal is literally a meyal sprung that if left unplated or for that matter unpainted it will absorb any wet substance that it comes in contact with it including jbweld. That said, if or when you decide to go with a permanent solution, you will be faced with a considerably higher repair cost due to metal contamination which must be removed/replaced. In a nutshell, leave it alone until you decide to do it right. 

[Potmetalman]

14 hours ago, Pete in PA said:

The new year is off to a good start in the "finding parts for my D2" department.  In a  random search on ebay I discovered a seller in Kentucky who listed several different pairs of tail lamp stands.  One of the sets must be from a D2 slant back because the embossed part numbers match those on my car.  One of the stands has a small damaged area and naturally it is the side I need (the left side).  No matter.  I bought the pair.  They should arrive on Monday.

I'll see how bad the damage is and then decide what I want to do about it.  Maybe I'll send it to forum member potmetalwelder and see what he can do with it.  Or maybe I'll send my mangled original to him now that I have a usable spare.

Looks like it's a little warped as well.. No worries though, it can easily be repaired back to its original condition. 

[Pete in PA]

AS promised the tail lamp stands arrived yesterday.  They are exactly what was promised in the auction so that was a relief.  You never know...

Left and right side stands were being sold as a pair so that's the way I bought them.  I only need one side but it doesn't hurt to have a spare since so few body styles used these particular parts.

It seems pretty clear that the stands came from two different cars.  Or, more likely, they came from the same car but one of them was a replacement part installed who knows when.  One of the parts was from a car that was originally painted yellow.  The other is from a black car.  Both have a lousy top coat of black paint.

The passenger side stand is in perfect condition so, naturally, I don't need that one.

The driver's side is slightly damaged as I showed in a previous pic.  I'll post some pics later today.

What's weird is that the driver's side casting seems to me significantly thinner than the passenger's side casting.  They both have part numbers embossed on them so they're correct parts.  Just a variation in the casting process?  I'll weigh them on my postage scale to see if I'm imagining things.

I'm heading to the Dodge Garage  to gather all the tail lights and tail light parts I have on hand.  I know I'll never need the 36 Plymouth touring sedan tail lamps and that's a real shame since they're in such great condition.  I'll ebay them and make someone happy.  Then there's the oddball LH stand that a PO of my car bought to repair the car but it turned out to be the wrong part.  Close but no cigar.  I'll also ebay that and hope that someone is looking for one.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Pete in PA (see edit history)