Nailhead to 4L60-E hookup

[ghaskett]

Has anyone hooked up a 4L60-E tranny to a 401-425 Nailhead. I know about the adapters, etc, but need to know what you did about the electronics required to run the tranny.
Thanks.

[ghaskett]

One other thing. I only want to know about the 4L60-E.  Thanks.

 

[SpecialEducation]

There are brain boxes available from places like Summit & Jegs. Pretty pricey, last I checked. 

[RivNut]

I read your comment about only wanting to know about the L460 E.  Your question asks what do you do about the Electronics required to handle the trans. Any reason you couldn't run an earlier L460 without the E..?  Same transmission, just not electronically controlled so your question would be moot.

[SpecialEducation]

https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19332775/10002/-1

 

 

[ghaskett]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

I read your comment about only wanting to know about the L460 E.  Your question asks what do you do about the Electronics required to handle the trans. Any reason you couldn't run an earlier L460 without the E..?  Same transmission, just not electronically controlled so your question would be moot.

Thanks for the great question. I also have the same thought, but Russ, out in California, says that his bellhousing only works on the "E" and get this...it has to come from a 98-99 GM 1500 or 98-2002 full size GM van. Very odd, but there must be a good reason for him to say that. I can only guess that it has to do with the housing bolt pattern perhaps.
Life would be sweet if the 4L60 hooks up to his housing.

[SpecialEducation]

7 hours ago, ghaskett said:

Thanks for the great question. I also have the same thought, but Russ, out in California, says that his bellhousing only works on the "E" and get this...it has to come from a 98-99 GM 1500 or 98-2002 full size GM van. Very odd, but there must be a good reason for him to say that. I can only guess that it has to do with the housing bolt pattern perhaps.
Life would be sweet if the 4L60 hooks up to his housing.

 

The earlier Es have the same bellhousing as the 700R4 a.k.a. 4L60, but the trick is what Centerville is selling is more than a simple adapter plate, it's a whole bellhousing swap.  For the cost and hassle of the electronics, I'd go with the 200-4R if those were my only two choices.

But those aren't your only choices.  The adapters aren't quite as sexy as the bellhousing swap, but If you want to use the sans-E 4L60, this adapter is what you need (BU10007 Chevy transmission adapter for 64-66 401-425 engines): 

 

[NC-car-guy]

23 minutes ago, SpecialEducation said:

 

The earlier Es have the same bellhousing as the 700R4 a.k.a. 4L60, but the trick is what Centerville is selling is more than a simple adapter plate, it's a whole bellhousing swap.  For the cost and hassle of the electronics, I'd go with the 200-4R if those were my only two choices.

But those aren't your only choices.  The adapters aren't quite as sexy as the bellhousing swap, but If you want to use the sans-E 4L60, this adapter is what you need (BU10007 Chevy transmission adapter for 64-66 401-425 engines): 

 

So where does one put the ring gear for the starter when swapping this style transmission ?

[RivNut]

The original flex plate is bolted to the crank using the hub adapter.

 

 

Then the transmission adapter plate is bolted to the bell housing.  This adapter came from Eelco, the one pictured in the previous threads comes from Bendsten's.

 

 

The torque plate is then adapted to the hub.  This torque plate circular, the one in the Bendsten's photo is triangular.  No big deal.

 

 

From a different angle

 

 

The torque converter then bolts to the torque plate..

 

 

Then the transmission is bolted to the adapter.

 

There are some different parts needed if you're working on a '63 or earlier.  Those engines have the ring gear on the torque converter.  If you're working on a 63 or earlier, it's easier to get a flex plate and starter from a 64 or later.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ed

[SpecialEducation]

1 hour ago, wndsofchng06 said:

So where does one put the ring gear for the starter when swapping this style transmission ?

 

 

There are some obvious typos in the installation instructions from Bendtsen's (like where the 401/425 Nailhead to Chevy kit instructions start by saying, "The kit shown fits 233/248/263 Straight 8 motors..."), but they state:

• 264 and 322 nailhead engines retain the original front part of the torque converter that has the starter ring gear attached to it.  Remove the bolts holding it to the crankshaft and install the provided crank adapter and supplied bolts. (’57 to ’63 only, sandwich the provided flywheel between the inner and outer crank spacers.) Make sure you position the flywheel weight correctly if you have a 401 or 425 engine. Then bolt them to your crankshaft with the long capscrews provided.

https://transmissionadapters.com/pages/installation-instrutions

[RivNut]

10 hours ago, ghaskett said:

Thanks for the great question. I also have the same thought, but Russ, out in California, says that his bellhousing only works on the "E" and get this...it has to come from a 98-99 GM 1500 or 98-2002 full size GM van. Very odd, but there must be a good reason for him to say that. I can only guess that it has to do with the housing bolt pattern perhaps.
Life would be sweet if the 4L60 hooks up to his housing.

if I'm correct, the transmission that Russ specifies for his adapter is a two piece transmission.  It has a separate bellhousing.  This is why he sells a adapter bell housing.  Most 4L60 transmissions are one piece.  What kind of car are you wanting to put the transmission in?  I only ask because if you're thinking of doing this in a first generation Riviera, the 700R4/460L is a really tight fight into the Riviera's X frame.

[ghaskett]

32 minutes ago, RivNut said:

if I'm correct, the transmission that Russ specifies for his adapter is a two piece transmission.  It has a separate bellhousing.  This is why he sells a adapter bell housing.  Most 4L60 transmissions are one piece.  What kind of car are you wanting to put the transmission in?  I only ask because if you're thinking of doing this in a first generation Riviera, the 700R4/460L is a really tight fight into the Riviera's X frame.

You are correct about the 4L60 bellhousing. This would be for my 56 Special. Already have dual quad 401 and 400 tranny in her. I do a lot of freeway travel out here in Washington State and I have a 700R4 so it looks like that will be my route. I'd prefer a 200 but then I've got to get it whacked for Russ's bellhousing. A lot of 6 of this and 6 of that going on here. Thanks again for the input.

[RivNut]

You don't have to "whack" the 200-4R. Even if you did, how would you bolt it to the bell housing that Russ wants you to buy.   If you have to buy an adapter anyway, use Bendsten's adapter as shown in the other photos.  Both the 700-R4 and the 200-4R (dual Chevy and BOP patterns) have the same Chevy bolt pattern as the adapter.  The photos that I posted are from the installation of a 200-4R behind a 401.   Putting either transmission behind a Bendensten's adapter is an easy process.

 

Here's a picture of the completed installation of a 200-4r in a '65 Riviera chassis.  Same engine/adapter as the previous photos.

 

 

 

If you're still using the column shift in your 56 Special, here's an indicator for an O/D transmission.

 

 

One thing that you'll have to do and is probably the most important thing is connecting a T.V. cable. (Throttle Valve cable.)  Read this before driving the car any distance, even backing it out of the garage.

 

http://www.cpttransmission.com/tech_tvcable.htm

 

This link shows how to bolt a T.V. cable to a Carter AFB / Edelbrock AFB clone

 

http://www.tvmadeez.com/1406_cam/

 

There is a lot of information to digest about how these transmissions work before you attempt to install one and drive it. It's more than just an R&R  Do your homework. 😎

 

 

 

 

 

[SpecialEducation]

36 minutes ago, RivNut said:

You don't have to "whack" the 200-4R. Even if you did, how would you bolt it to the bell housing that Russ wants you to buy. 

 

That's a really good question.  I can't say that I completely understand how they are doing this without "whacking" on the case...

 

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, SpecialEducation said:

 

That's a really good question.  I can't say that I completely understand how they are doing this without "whacking" on the case...

 

That's a new one for me.  The only thing that I see is that besides the cost of the new bell housing, you'd also have the cost of "whacking" off the 200-4R, and the custom converter.  

 

With the bell housing adapter you've pictured you'll need to "whack" off the front of the transmission.  With the adapter plate from Bendsten's you bolt on the transmission as is.  

[ghaskett]

4 hours ago, RivNut said:

That's a new one for me.  The only thing that I see is that besides the cost of the new bell housing, you'd also have the cost of "whacking" off the 200-4R, and the custom converter.  

 

With the bell housing adapter you've pictured you'll need to "whack" off the front of the transmission.  With the adapter plate from Bendsten's you bolt on the transmission as is.  

The added costs are a deal killer. I'm in Canada for the week, but when I get home I'll call Russ about cutting the front off the 2004R. The adaptor for hooking up 700R4 or 2004R is about $725 plus getting driveline altered. Russ's bellhousing is $850, the computer is around $,1400 plus getting the 200 cut up.  Russ is really pushing his bell housing vs using the adapter.  I am aware of the TV issues. Looks like I'd be smart to go with the Bendstens.

[RivNut]

I looked for Huges Performance but couldn't find it. But I was redirected to Hughes Performance. They seem to be a force in the performance transmission field.  But when I searched for the part # shown, it came back with nothing.  Makes me wonder if Russ didn't have them made or bought all they had and is just trying to get rid of what he has.

 

Lots of guys are running the Bendsten's adapters with no problems.  Money wise it just makes sense.  Especially if you already have the parts.  

 

Ed

Edited December 18, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history)

[ghaskett]

Thanks, Ed. Makes sense to me.

[Beemon]

People will push what they want to sell the most. It's always important to do your research first, it could possibly be different from the expert's opinion. 

[NTX5467]

The main reason that performance people flocked to the THM700 is the 3.07 low gear for a better launch.  But with 2nd gear being 1.74 (think PowerGlide low gear), that's a huge ratio gap to fill, one way or another.  The THM200 family has more like a 2.75 low gear, so less of a canyon to jump in getting a smooth 1-2 shift.  Considering the large history of the early Riviera owners using THM200-4R automatics, without a large amount of whacking, cutting, or fitting, that would be my choice . . . provided the guts were upgraded to handle the torque of a Nailhead V-8.  I suspect it'll also consume less horsepower, so more power to the rubber and the road!

 

The THM700 was basically replacing the THM350, so I suspect that's the basic power range it's designed for.  Until recently, little existed in regards to stouter internal guts.  Whereas the THM200-4R has more available upgraded gut items to easily handle 454 muscle cars, for example.  Lock-up torque converters (and modulation thereof) are another thing to consider with the THM700.

 

GM has a crate transmission in their GMPerformance Parts selection.  A 4L80E (think THM400 w/OD).  Plus a stand-alone box to run it.  NOT inexpensive.  These automatics were in a good number of HD2500 GM pickups, before the Allison trans use was expanded.

 

I fully understand the desire to use the THM700 you have, BUT . . . it might take more to make it work (time and $$$$$) than it's really worth.  You could sell it to somebody who has a car it would work better in, then get a upgraded THM200-4R and go from there.  NEVER did like the idea of whacking the front off of an automatic transmission, personally, just to make it fit somewhere it probably shouldn't be.

 

The new GM 6L80E/6L90E automatics have a detachable bellhousing, as that's the way they come.  With a 4.50 low gear, much more torque multiplication than the THM700-family units.  Just need a box to run them.  Might need to check floorpan clearance PLUS interface with the torque tube?

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[NTX5467]

For the record, GM Performance Parts has several different 4L60-family electronic-controlled automatics, in various torque capacities.  Same with the other automatics in their GMPP line of SuperMatic transmissions and controllers.  NOT sure what kind of internal upgrades each one gets, though.

 

NTX5467