Wheelmang Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 The water pump packing is leaking on my 26 DB. I have pulled the water pump and distributor housing assembly but cannot figure out how to get the pin (short of drilling it out) out of the impeller. The pin appears to be a relatively soft metal. Almost looks like someone drove a headless nail into the hole. Also the impeller appears to be pressed on to the shaft as well. Would greatly appreciated some guidance on rebuilding the water pump. I would also like to remove the drive gears for the shaft and distributor in order to do a thorough cleaning and paint of the body. Are those gears pressed onto the shaft? The impeller looks to be a pretty rough casting. Is that normal? All comments/guidance greatly appreciated. (With all this experience I am gaining I may someday be a worthwhile contributor instead of just a student) Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Pin: yes drift it out. Be very careful with the impeller - you don't want to break it. Ideally there should be very small clearance between the impeller blades and the pump body (photo 2). The impeller should be a push fit on the shaft. Those impeller blades look like they have been ground with a circular wheel (angle grinder?). They may have been built up and ground off, roughly. There should be a carbon thrust washer behind the impeller, between the impeller and the body. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I have also rebuilt my 26 water pump. You will need a new shaft and keys and an impeller which are supplied by Myers. Forget trying to use traditional packing and install rubber lip seals. I recommmend fitting new bearings which I have also done. One thing to check is the back lash of the distributor drive gear and key way. There may also be wear in the housing . Incidentaly, these castings are more fragile than they would appear. Ray. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 Thanks for your feedback guys. Ray, I am curious about your recommendation to replace the shaft and impeller and upgrade to seals and new bearings. Is this just a matter of principle as it is apart or did you see something in the pictures that you were able to diagnose? Don't want to spend money unnecessarily plus I am trying to keep this as original as possible. It is a survivor car and I am only the 3rd owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Hi Wheelmang. I appreciate you may have a budget but if you want to stop your water pump from leaking it will need to be returned to as near as new condition that you can get it. These pumps are notorious for leaking even after new packing has been fitted and the primary reason for it is wear on the shaft. If you look at your shaft there are probably grooves in it. The rubber lip seals were supplied by Machinist Bill who also has a ‘26 and contributes to this forum. I had a friend over here machine some replacement bushes. This has eliminated unwanted movement of the shaft. On my car the flange next to the impeller had completely rusted away so as a temporary measure I sandwiched a thin aluminium plate between the casting flanges. This worked o.k. but thanks to another very helpful forum member in Australia I was able to source a better ‘core’ for the rebuild. I was also able to get a replacement distributor gear housing. The distributor tends to rock in this housing which plays havoc with the timing. Ideally, you would fit a brass bush but just by chance I found that by placing a shim under the body of the distributor I now have a steady dwell angle reading. You might be able to follow my thread if you hit the search button. Ray. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 Thanks Ray. It is more the originality than the budget but I do hate spending money I do not have to. Can't help it, it's my heritage. Guess I will take the shaft completely out and check for grooves. (If anyone out there has OE spec diameter for the shaft, bushings etc, I would appreciate it) I am having some difficulty keeping it running. It will start great but then soon stalls out. Possibly it is the dwell that is varying? All is new inside the distributor and the points are set to spec. What are you getting for a dwell reading? (Yes - I still own a dwell meter) I presume your shim was only a few thousands? Headed to the search now. Your info is greatly appreciated Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I get the originality bit. Just ask anyone on here.....as for spending money hand over fist; that’s what my wife is for.... Sorry, I can’t recall the dwell angle but getting a steady reading is what I was aiming for. Yes, the shim is a thin one. I experimented with several before finding one that didn’t bind when tightening the retaining screw. Remember that by lifting the distributor just a fraction will have an effect, albeit a small one, on the timing. I don’t think your problem is points dwell. It sounds as if you are either running out of petrol or sparks but which is it? From memory, I am pretty sure the shaft is half inch. It is 12 inches long and the rubber disc generator couplings are also worth replacing with new. The brass bushings are dead simple to make if you have a lathe but be very careful when removing the old ones from the castings. I think they should pull out easily. I seem to remember they only come out one way. Ray 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 Ray - looked at your posts. Very interesting reading. Mine still has the original and fully functional leather disk drive for the generator(dynamo). Pretty cool. If memory serves on this type application there should be about 5 - 7 thousandths clearance between a shaft and bushing. Will take your recommendation on replacing if any more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 To me that sounds a bit excessive for a half inch shaft. Perhaps others have an opinion. When you reassemble the pump check out the end float. This can also have a detrimental effect if it is too much. I found you can reduce it by fitting a couple of brass washers behind the pulley...they need to be well greased. Sorry, no photos. You might also find it advantageous to fit a drain cock to the water pump if there is not already one there. I have added a very nice vintage tap with a little curved spout which comes in very useful for directing coolant when draining. You will probably have found there is also one on the bottom of the rad and another one on the block near the carb! There can be quite a bit of chatter from the camshaft/distributor drive gears. This can be improved upon by fitting a thinner gasket between the block and the housing. Mike C has had some success with this. I have a fibre cam gear so that’s quieter still. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 I replacded the shaft with a stainless shaft. I got it from Myers. I think it is 5/8 inch OD. I am still thinking of using lip seals . Anybody have a part number of one that works well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 18 minutes ago, platt-deutsch said: I replacded the shaft with a stainless shaft. I got it from Myers. I think it is 5/8 inch OD. I am still thinking of using lip seals . Anybody have a part number of one that works well? You are absolutely correct. Realising I may have made a mistake I have checked my old shaft. It is definitely 5/8”. I too bought a new shaft from Myers. Looking at my old one I remember why. It had been built up with braze and was in shocking condition. Sorry for the error re the size. Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 An update on my adventure. Finally got the drift pin out, by drilling it out. The key way was also on a bronze bushing that was pressed into a bored out portion of the original impeller. As if that wasn't interesting enough, I dropped it once I had it off the shaft. See the picture! Myer's to the rescue. Tom had an original that has the 5/8" bore with a key way. Other than that the shaft and gears are in great shape. I measured approximately .001 vertical/lateral movement on both the pulley and impeller end. Will reassemble as soon as new/old impeller arrives. As to the seals. I spent a significant amount of time searching seal supplier web sites and catalogs for something that would fit the .625 shaft with a .875 bore and had zero results. Guess i'll stick with the original style packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Put in 1 or 2 of those >>> https://www.fmmotorparts.com/fmstorefront/federalmogul/en/USD/Driveline/Automatic-Transmission-and-Transaxle/SEALS-AutoTransOilPumpSeal/National-Oil-Seal/p/RNT253747#.Wf46nF3aaMo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 The shaft must have been replaced recently (or not run much after a long ago replacement) if it has no grooves from the packing. Mine was also in horrible shape. I wasn't able to find any specification for backlash on the water pump drive gear mesh and the only means of adjustment is gasket thickness between pump body and block. I was getting a very noticeable and seemingly random clacking noise that turned out to be excess backlash on this gear mesh. Use of a thinner gasket solved the problem. The rubber lipped seals are the way to go... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 CAHartley - Thanks for the info. Found two on special order at two separate local parts stores. I like the idea of using two per bore. In effect creates a double lip seal and the bore seems plenty deep enough for two. Now just need to find a couple more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 Mike - Yes, after reading about the deplorable shaft condition of other thread contributors I finally had a pleasant surprise in this car restoration. My presumption is it was replaced when someone jury rigged the original impeller with a new bushing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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