1962 Corvair 700 sedan electrical

[Vintagecarguy]

Hello all,

My father and I finally found a car... a 1962 Corvair 700 sedan with a powerglide.

It runs and drives amazingly, very smooth! 

At present one of the few issues we are having is the left brake light not working and the turn signals are not working. However, everything else, the head and taillights, are working. My dad wanted to know where the wiring harness goes after it leaves the engine compartment? Most of the wires look newer, but are not the original color so it makes it a little tricky to follow on a diagram.

Any help would be appreciated.

Also, strangely, the taillight sockets seem to be two different ones; two different light bulbs that won't interchange. Could this cause any of the issues?

 

Thanks in advance. Vintagecarguy.

[D Yaros]

Corvair electrical problems are like the air we breathe; present everywhere.  The fact you have  2 different sockets is probably because someone else had to address a lighting problem.

 

The most common tail light problem is the loss of a ground.  Most Vair owners run a new/separate ground from the housing.  If you have a Corvair, you must have a Volt-Ohm Meter/continuity tester.

[Bloo]

Yes, it could.

 

You didn't mention whether the taillights work. The first thing I would do is verify that the smallest filament in the taillight is lighting with the taillights, and that the socket of the bulb is grounded. This is important. If they have converted to a flat bulb, you need to verify absolutely that they have the correct wire grounded, or switch back to a stock type bulb.

 

If that doesnt fix it, you need to look at the turn signal switch. On nearly every American car of that vintage, it works as follows: Power comes from somewhere, probably the fusebox, to the flasher. From the flasher, it goes to the turn signal switch. When you turn the signal on, The switch just connects a front bulb to the flasher, pretty simple. On the rear it is a bit more complicated, because they usually use the same filament in the bulb (the big filament) for both turn signal and brake. When you signal for a turn, you might be braking, and the bulb is already on solid. When you turn the signal on, the signal light switch disconnects one rear bulb from the brake light circuit, and connects it to the flasher. When the signal cancels, the switch disconnects the bulb from the flasher and reconnects it to the brake lights.

 

A bad turn signal switch can and often does cause either the brakelight or the turn signal or both to not work on one side in the rear.

 

 

[Vintagecarguy]

5 hours ago, D Yaros said:

Corvair electrical problems are like the air we breathe; present everywhere.  The fact you have  2 different sockets is probably because someone else had to address a lighting problem.

 

The most common tail light problem is the loss of a ground.  Most Vair owners run a new/separate ground from the housing.  If you have a Corvair, you must have a Volt-Ohm Meter/continuity tester.

D Yaros, thank you for the help. I am happy that one brake light and the turn signals are all I have to worry about... so far! 

Thank you again!

4 hours ago, Bloo said:

Yes, it could.

 

You didn't mention whether the taillights work. The first thing I would do is verify that the smallest filament in the taillight is lighting with the taillights, and that the socket of the bulb is grounded. This is important. If they have converted to a flat bulb, you need to verify absolutely that they have the correct wire grounded, or switch back to a stock type bulb.

 

If that doesnt fix it, you need to look at the turn signal switch. On nearly every American car of that vintage, it works as follows: Power comes from somewhere, probably the fusebox, to the flasher. From the flasher, it goes to the turn signal switch. When you turn the signal on, The switch just connects a front bulb to the flasher, pretty simple. On the rear it is a bit more complicated, because they usually use the same filament in the bulb (the big filament) for both turn signal and brake. When you signal for a turn, you might be braking, and the bulb is already on solid. When you turn the signal on, the signal light switch disconnects one rear bulb from the brake light circuit, and connects it to the flasher. When the signal cancels, the switch disconnects the bulb from the flasher and reconnects it to the brake lights.

 

A bad turn signal switch can and often does cause either the brakelight or the turn signal or both to not work on one side in the rear.

 

 

Bloo, thank you for your help. The taillights are working. The Corvair still uses the original style double filament bulbs. I am beginning to suspect the turn signal switch considering that one brake light is working and the turn signals are not at all.

Thank you very much for the help!

[Vintagecarguy]

Hello again all. My father and I noticed that the turn signal lever does not seem to register correctly; meaning that it seems to move too much. Does the steering wheel have to be removed in order to get to the cancelling plate?

Also, when we put the car into gear, drive or reverse, the hood rattles. We've narrowed it down to the inner metal liner that is above the spare tire. Is there something we can put there to dampen the sound, or should we try to bend it out slightly?

 

Thanks in advance. Vintagecarguy.

[Aaron65]

The steering wheel will have to be removed to get to the switch/cancelling assembly.  I found this picture with a quick Google search; it's from corvairkid.com.  It's from a late model Corvair, but I'd imagine they're similar.

 

[Vintagecarguy]

Aaron65,

Thank you for the information! I appreciate it.

[JACK M]

Not uncommon for the canceling device to fall apart after 50 years or so causing the problems that you describe.

Its just the nature of plastics.

Should not be a difficult fix. You might have to snake some wires down the tube. Although the pic that Aaron supplied suggests that they may run down the underside.

[Vintagecarguy]

2 hours ago, JACK M said:

Not uncommon for the canceling device to fall apart after 50 years or so causing the problems that you describe.

Its just the nature of plastics.

Should not be a difficult fix. You might have to snake some wires down the tube. Although the pic that Aaron supplied suggests that they may run down the underside.

JACK M,

thank you for the help.

The turn signal system on my car is a little different than the one pictured above. The switch is under the dash attached to the steering column and is actuated by a cable. The lever still 'clicks' when moved so the cancelling device might be okay.

Thank you again.

Vintagecarguy.

[Frank DuVal]

Of course it is different, the 60 to 64 models, known as earlies, are very different in certain parts than the 65 to 69, known as lates.

 

The turn signal switch on the 60 to 64 models is down on the column. The bowl where the turn signal lever pivots turns the lever action into a "Bowden" cable, pulling and pushing the center wire to activate the switch located down lower on the column. 

 

Several things can happen:

 

1. the mechanism to turn the lever action into the linear motion of the wire can be out of position. this requires removing the steering wheel to investigate.

 

2. The switch can be dirty. It is possible to open it up and clean the contacts, and replacement are available.

 

3. The switch can be mis-adjusted.

 

BTW, the same bulb, 1157, should be in both tail lamp sockets. Although 1034 is also an acceptable substitute. 

 

Yes, the earlies (60 to 64) have ground issues between the aluminum housing and both the brass lamp holder and the steel car body. Soldering a wire to the brass lampholder and screwing it to the body somewhere is the ultimate fix, but not "stock looking" if visible. Usually just recrimping the brass to the aluminum fixes this. To test if this is the issue, use a piece of wire to connect the brass shell of the lamp or lampholder (socket) to the negative terminal of the battery while observing the lamp. 

 

Lates (65 to 69)  have the usual GM socket problems of the entire GM line in the late 60s! The metal lampholder slides out of the plastic socket, rendering the bulb loose in the socket. I fix these with a #4 sheet metal screw. Again, not stock if you can see it.

 

Do the front turn signal lamps or dash indicators light?

 

As to the rattle, get the engine to idle smoothly in gear. By hood, you mean engine lid? Or is your's an AC car and the spare is in the trunk, aka, hood. Confusing?

[Frank DuVal]

Also, you say the wires do not follow the diagram. Do you have the 62 or 62/63 supplement to the 1961 shop manual? There is a change in wire colors from 60 to 64.

 

The taillamp housing is the same for 63 and 64, but different in all the other years (60, 61, 62). Someone could have put a non 62 housing for one of them. 

[Vintagecarguy]

Well, now my dad and I have more confusion. I replaced the turn signal switch and now we have the brake light on the driver side... but not the passenger side. So, my dad cleaned the housing, and both the brake lights and taillights work. However, we are having an issue where, with the headlights and taillights on, one light goes out, completely, while the other gets brighter when you hit the brakes????

At present the turn signal switch is not hooked up to the lever because the cable is detached from the lever itself and the only way to get to it is by removing the steering wheel.

Does anyone know where the switch should be located on its travel to work properly? It seemed that in different positions we got different combinations... at one point I had the turn signal indicator come on....

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance. Vintagecarguy.

[Frank DuVal]

Center the switch actuator (where the cable wire hooks in) to get both brake lights and no signal indicators on. The switch was made with three positions n mind to get the right action. Now that it is disconnected from the detent spring, you have hundreds of possible positions, of which 97 are useless information, ignore them.

 

Simple steering wheel puller can take wheel off. Take care to note where all the horn switch pieces go, beville washer, etc. Take pictures as you remove the parts if you never did it before. We answer a lot of these "where does the washer go, and it what position" questions on the forum (corvaircenter.com/phorum).  5/16"-18 long bolts thread into the wheel to go with wheel puller.

 

Small plastic wheel goes on the side of the ZZ shaped spring (detent spring) with the three possible positions once you get in there.  Putting the plastic wheel on the two possible position side will not work right. I know, makes no sense now, but it will once the wheel is off.

 

One lamp getting brighter and one lamp going dimmer is a sure sign of a bad ground. Re-read my post about using a jumper wire to ground the actual bulb shell to test.

 

A shop manual (1961) with the 62/3 supplement should be your very next purchase. While awaiting delivery, the Corvanatics people (the FC [Forward Control] vans and pickups of Corvair production) have resources you need:

 

http://www.corvair.org/chapters/corvanatics/files/documents/manuals/shop61/8-elctSys-61.pdf

 

New switch or used switch?

 

 

[Vintagecarguy]

38 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

Center the switch actuator (where the cable wire hooks in) to get both brake lights and no signal indicators on. The switch was made with three positions n mind to get the right action. Now that it is disconnected from the detent spring, you have hundreds of possible positions, of which 97 are useless information, ignore them.

 

Simple steering wheel puller can take wheel off. Take care to note where all the horn switch pieces go, beville washer, etc. Take pictures as you remove the parts if you never did it before. We answer a lot of these "where does the washer go, and it what position" questions on the forum (corvaircenter.com/phorum).  5/16"-18 long bolts thread into the wheel to go with wheel puller.

 

Small plastic wheel goes on the side of the ZZ shaped spring (detent spring) with the three possible positions once you get in there.  Putting the plastic wheel on the two possible position side will not work right. I know, makes no sense now, but it will once the wheel is off.

 

One lamp getting brighter and one lamp going dimmer is a sure sign of a bad ground. Re-read my post about using a jumper wire to ground the actual bulb shell to test.

 

A shop manual (1961) with the 62/3 supplement should be your very next purchase. While awaiting delivery, the Corvanatics people (the FC [Forward Control] vans and pickups of Corvair production) have resources you need:

 

http://www.corvair.org/chapters/corvanatics/files/documents/manuals/shop61/8-elctSys-61.pdf

 

New switch or used switch?

 

 

Frank DuVal,

thank you for the information and help.

The switch is new. I did center it and now I have brake lights, but when the headlights are on the driverside goes out. However, the driverside my need to be cleaned as it is dim with the brake light and taillight.

It just occured to me that we do have one low beam filament burned out. Would this cause any issue?

Thank you again for your help!

[Frank DuVal]

Low beam burned out should have no effect on any other electrical issue.

 

Yes to ground issue on driver's side.

 

The tail lamp housing comes out of the body by loosening the bolts, then rotating the housing so the mounting bracket ears align with slots in the body, then it pulls out.

 

You can solder a wire to the brass socket and attach the other end to a ground.  It is possible to drill a small hole into the frame rail area and use a #6 sheet metal screw. Or attach it to one of the engine sheetmetal screws.

 

Another issue on these style sockets (used on many cars for years) with the eyelets on springs, is the springs get rusty and weak. Spraying them with lube may help get them to move. Also you can use a 1/2"  copper pipe fitting wire brush to clean the inside of the socket. Make sure all power to the socket is off before using the wire brush.

[Vintagecarguy]

9 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Low beam burned out should have no effect on any other electrical issue.

 

Yes to ground issue on driver's side.

 

The tail lamp housing comes out of the body by loosening the bolts, then rotating the housing so the mounting bracket ears align with slots in the body, then it pulls out.

 

You can solder a wire to the brass socket and attach the other end to a ground.  It is possible to drill a small hole into the frame rail area and use a #6 sheet metal screw. Or attach it to one of the engine sheetmetal screws.

 

Another issue on these style sockets (used on many cars for years) with the eyelets on springs, is the springs get rusty and weak. Spraying them with lube may help get them to move. Also you can use a 1/2"  copper pipe fitting wire brush to clean the inside of the socket. Make sure all power to the socket is off before using the wire brush.

Frank DuVal, thank you again. My Dad cleaned the other housing but it seems that the bulb is loose in the socket. We're going to order some new sockets and see if that helps. Also, the turn signal switch needs to be adjusted again because when the brakes are on, both the turn signal goes on front and back on the passenger side.

But first the car needs its wheel cylinders and shoes replaced; we found one leaking.

Thank you again for all your help.