Guest Leeroy Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Thanks for the great information Jon. I'll let you know how I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Ok, so the Carb was pulled off yesterday and stripped, cleaned, inspected the best I could and put back together. Below are some pics, any comments? Pulled the bowl and float apart too, forgot to take pics! But float moved nicely all seemed good. The low idle pick up tube, where it went in the housing had black grit, maybe a rotten seal, wasn't sure, so I put some small o'rings in to seal it a bit, from what I can tell, if the pipes in the fuel should be ok, but obviously fuel can come out here. Once back on, it was extremely hard to get started, even "Start ya Bastard" didn't work, hair dryer and heating and eventually go the bugger started. We were trying to start with it fully retarded, ended up getting it started fully advanced, idle 50%, Person I bought it from told me to leave the advance at Max, so now wondering if the Magneto needs adjusting? Once again fuel dripping, but spark plugs dry. On a side note, anyone have a suggestion as for the Spark plug gap? Once it did start, it seems a lot smoother running, seems to rev more freely, took it for a spin, 1st / 2nd great / top gear still sputters and chugs like it's either not got enough fuel / air / advance. This time turning off I decided to turn the fuel tap off first, wait until the engine was running out of fuel, then turn ignition off. AN hour later, it started first push of the starter, but it was still warm I guess, another short drive, shutdown the same way. 3 hours later, felt under carb and it's nice a dry :-) Usually its been wet with fuel. Will try a cold start today, i'll hoping it starts easily!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) Yes on the carb , but I would check the timing the easy way first. If you need full advance just to START , you may be WAY retarded. These cars should RUN some ADVANCE over factory spec , (making full retard on start even more important) , against the VASTLY higher octane of fuel today. Mid 40s back then. Always use the lowest octane fuel you can buy. If you can find it without the "moonshine" laced in , better yet. If it APPEARS timed right , verify by establishing true TDC. Keep up the good work ! You'll get it right ! - Carl Edited June 24, 2017 by C Carl Numerical correction (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Try .025" for the gaps and work your way up to .030" when you verify you timing/ignition is correct. Do you have pic of the plugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Does the magneto on your car have an impulse? If it doesn't you NEED a magneto in TOP SHAPE or you'll experience exactly what you're experiencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 That venturi in your carburetor is close to the point of cracking the cast iron. I would highly recommend taking your measurements, making a new one from brass or aluminum, and getting that thing out of there! Wait too long and you will have to repair the cast iron as well as machine the new venturi. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 8 hours ago, maok said: Try .025" for the gaps and work your way up to .030" when you verify you timing/ignition is correct. Do you have pic of the plugs? Spark plugs were set to 70 thou ! Have set these back to 35 thou, still didn't start well, still took me bloody 30mins to get it started! argh. Are the below plugs the correct ones? As I have no idea! But it ran well, seemed more power, and smoother, even 3rd was good? I might try 20 thou and see how starting goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 8 hours ago, C Carl said: Yes on the carb , but I would check the timing the easy way first. If you need full advance just to START , you may be WAY retarded. These cars should RUN some ADVANCE over factory spec , (making full retard on start even more important) , against the VASTLY higher octane of fuel today. Mid 40s back then. Always use the lowest octane fuel you can buy. If you can find it without the "moonshine" laced in , better yet. If it APPEARS timed right , verify by establishing true TDC. Keep up the good work ! You'll get it right ! - Carl Bloody Dealer said to use Premium Unleaded and add the Lead / Valve saver Additive. Today I put 30L of Unleaded 91 in it., plus the additive and I ran smoother once I got it started ( see previous post) but I did mess with the spark gap too. Next Step is to identify the Magneto, it is a Bosch! But need to find model, will take some pics and see if I can find any numbers on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) I wouldn't worry about the magneto as yet. Clean the plugs and see how it starts with the small plug gap. The plugs look to be very rich, may need to play with the main jet screw. I think your starting issues maybe the wide plug gaps and mixture being too rich. But it could also be timing, ie too advanced, as another issue in the mix. Edited June 25, 2017 by maok grammar error (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, Leeroy said: Spark plugs were set to 70 thou ! Have set these back to 35 thou, still didn't start well, still took me bloody 30mins to get it started! argh. Are the below plugs the correct ones? As I have no idea! But it ran well, seemed more power, and smoother, even 3rd was good? I might try 20 thou and see how starting goes. WoW! You must have a great battery, being able to crank for that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 6 hours ago, carbking said: That venturi in your carburetor is close to the point of cracking the cast iron. I would highly recommend taking your measurements, making a new one from brass or aluminum, and getting that thing out of there! Wait too long and you will have to repair the cast iron as well as machine the new venturi. Jon. Thanks Jon, Does that part of the casting come off? As in pushed in or something or are you saying the whole casting needs to be redone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, maok said: WoW! You must have a great battery, being able to crank for that long. lol, new battery and keep putting it back on charge :-) That's another thing i'm going to suss out, the cranking CC's of the battery, the Dealer put a new battery in an it's labelled as "Deep Cycle", generally deep cycle don't have great Cranking specs, as they are more for long duration type work, like running a Fridge or LED lights etc for camping (speaking of 12V scenario here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Ok guys, next challenge :-) The Magneto, pics below, how do I identify what manual to use to do the timing? There's not much Maxwell stuff that I can find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Leeroy said: Thanks Jon, Does that part of the casting come off? As in pushed in or something or are you saying the whole casting needs to be redone? The cast iron throttle body and the zinc alloy (pot metal) venturi are two separate castings. Some of the venturii are held by a set screw, others by a ridge on the venturi and a matching ridge on the throttle body. Do not know how yours is held in place. I don't have an exploded view of the T4X, but this Stromberg is very similar in the throttle body and venturi. Note the different diameters (ridges) on the venturi which keep it in position between the two body castings. The venturi is item 28. Jon Edited June 25, 2017 by carbking (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 On 18/06/2017 at 5:04 PM, hchris said: Yep, carb is original, springs are after market but obviously doing the job. Yes you are likely to see throttle ice in our neck of the woods at this time of year, but this usually forms once the engine has been running for a minute or two. How do I know ? because the first few blocks of driving from home were the most difficult when cold, particularly at traffic lights, trying to keep it running. Observing the ice ring forming around the casting adjacent the throttle plate, whilst in the shed, confirmed this for me. In short all of your symptoms are typical of my experiences and using variations of the above remedies, in time, will sort you out. What worked best for me was to remove the plugs, tip a few drops of fuel straight into the plug holes refit plugs, half choke, ignition full retard, enough hand throttle for a fast idle and hit the starter, usually it would fire immediately; a complicated procedure but achieved the desired results. Hi Chris, If i was going to try the few drops of fuel as a last resort until i resolve my issue, exactly how much is a "few Drops" :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 15 hours ago, carbking said: The cast iron throttle body and the zinc alloy (pot metal) venturi are two separate castings. Some of the venturii are held by a set screw, others by a ridge on the venturi and a matching ridge on the throttle body. Do not know how yours is held in place. I don't have an exploded view of the T4X, but this Stromberg is very similar in the throttle body and venturi. Note the different diameters (ridges) on the venturi which keep it in position between the two body castings. The venturi is item 28. Thanks Jon, I might have to try and source another T4X so i can measure the Venturi, as i don't want to attempt to remove the Venturi on mine to measure and then destroy it in the process! I guess there wouldn't be much documentation around about the dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 HI Leeroy , don't you have primer cups ? Full cup is a dose. - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Update! Well I had a win today, I went out and thoroughly cleaned the spark plugs with a file, and set to 30 thou, then started going over the electrical cabling, pulling off electrical tape and checking scotch locks et, found why the horn was intermittent, cable had rubbed until worn though, taped that up, all good now. Got to the starter motor, positive cable firm, negative cable I could easily move, tightened this up. Continued towards the battery, positive earth to chassis I could also easily move, added washer and spring washer to this and retightened. Battery connections solid. Turned fuel on, max advanced, half throttle, started cranking it over, pulled choke all the way out, back in slowly all the way out again, in slowly and it started. I was like WTF it started ! It did turn over a lot faster than previous attempts, so either this was luck, or the slightly loose cables was actually causing issues. Let it warm up a bit, went for a spin, got it up to 65kph, slowed back down to about 60, ran good, drove around without issue for 14mins. I’ll try again tomorrow to see if the issue is resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Hello Leeroy 0.070" was far to wide a gap for a magneto. You should use 0.025" maximum. You should find that there is a set of contacts in the end of the magneto too, but setting them up is a specialist thing, so I would not recommend touching them until you have researched it. In fact, if it runs well, why touch them at all? I suspect you had a series of faults all ganging up on you and now that you have resolved them, all is well. Hope it stays that way! My father once owned a 1922 Maxwell, which I remember riding in the rumble seat of as a child. I wish I had it now. Adam.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Well I think i'm on a winner with the Starting finally :-) Started within the first 8-10 cranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Compare starting full retard vs. full advance. Part of the reason your timing control was installed in your car , is because full retard is the proper timing for a very slow turning engine. Engines don't run as slowly as they turn on the starter. If indeed your timing is at spec , set it 4 or 5 (perhaps more) degrees advanced over spec. Remember ? You can thusly enjoy better combustion on modern gasoline which has twice the octane of the fine gasoline necessary in the days of EXTREMELY low compression. And then put your timing control to the purpose for which it was designed. Please continue to keep us in the loop. After this info is reported to us , I will enlighten you to another cute trick or two one can play with this seemingly vestigial appendage. Your recent experience again proves the wisdom of going right back to square one in troubleshooting. Among my friends here who are usually not too bored with my tendency to use 43 words when 18 would do , are some who shared the agony I underwent last year. I put over 1000 miles into shakedown for , and eventual beginning of a rather long trip , in continuous frustration. Running very poorly , almost threw in the towel , started looking for a box to ship the car to destination. Another mechanic recommended to me by a friend , an Old Bull (92 at the time) , of the hobby , went right back to basics , assuming NOTHING. Positive ground : check. Coil connections -------------------- "uh , are you SURE this car is positive ground ?" " Yeah , take a look at the wiring diagram. See ?" "Take a look at your coil connections" "Lemmee see -----------WHAT THE ......................?" Coil wires were crossed ! For the remaining almost 2000 miles the car ran just about as well as a new one ! It had never run right for the previous owner ! That was a 1927 Cadillac. But I know very little about magnetos. - Carl Edited June 28, 2017 by C Carl Clean-up and enhancement (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Leeroy said: Well I think i'm on a winner with the Starting finally :-) Started within the first 8-10 cranks. The world record is 1/4 crank turn. So you got a bit to go...:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Right , Moe. But withhold judgment until he learns the secret of retarding a start ! Hmmmm...... I think I will edit the above for fun. - Carl I'm back with a pic I believe never seen before here. All thumbs owner/shadetree mechanic was EXTREMELY careful not to cross wires , hoping a new coil might cure it. If I had screwed up and crossed (actually UN crossing them) the wires , I would have spent the rest of my life cursing South of the border quality control. Anyone want to buy a perfectly good 6 volt Mexican coil ? - Carl Fun ! Past midnight PDT ! Edited June 28, 2017 by C Carl Add pic for more fun yet (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, maok said: The world record is 1/4 crank turn. So you got a bit to go...:) Shhhhhhhh , Moe . Don't tell Leeroy about the good ol' NO turn on the crank start. Shhhhhhhhh ! When I was a kid back in '64 or '65 I was shown the No Turn Trick by a very nice gentleman considerably older than I. I would visit Luther Losey in my XK120 MC roadster. He had a predilection for British cars , and even had a 1938 LaSalle along with his 2 old Rolls Royces. He had a P2 Contintal , and a 20/25. We had been talking for a couple hours when he decided to try the No Turn. Fired up the 20/25 , I believe he said the Continental was less reliable for such stunts. Did he say it had something to do with the cam profile of the large , hot RR ? Might have been. Rather long time ago , and I am older now than Luther was then. Shhhhhhhhh---------- Don't tell Leeroy yet ! Shhhhhhhh , I promised to tell him a couple of tricks if he would be so kind as to experiment and quantify startability between full advance and full retard. Don't TELL him Moe ! Don't tell him. -Carl Edited June 28, 2017 by C Carl (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carsnz123 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 hour ago, maok said: The world record is 1/4 crank turn. So you got a bit to go...:) I've started cars with no crank before. shut off engine, flick ignition back on, retard ignition, away we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 All : please don't blame Carsnz123 for the tip of the hand here. I was tapping my plea for secrecy through another portal (editing a mistakenly posted blank page) , so '123 did not see what would have been a blank page , later what would have been seen as the latter became the former. Wormhole ? No doubt '123 and I shared a telepathic moment ! What a great simultaneous illumination ! Don't worry , I have at least one more trick up my sleeve. - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 4 hours ago, maok said: The world record is 1/4 crank turn. So you got a bit to go...:) I am talking about electric start here :-) but I will try the handle at some stage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, C Carl said: Shhhhhhhh , Moe . Don't tell Leeroy about the good ol' NO turn on the crank start. Shhhhhhhhh ! When I was a kid back in '64 or '65 I was shown the No Turn Trick by a very nice gentleman considerably older than I. I would visit Luther Losey in my XK120 MC roadster. He had a predilection for British cars , and even had a 1938 LaSalle along with his 2 old Rolls Royces. He had a P2 Contintal , and a 20/25. We had been talking for a couple hours when he decided to try the No Turn. Fired up the 20/25 , I believe he said the Continental was less reliable for such stunts. Did he say it had something to do with the cam profile of the large , hot RR ? Might have been. Rather long time ago , and I am older now than Luther was then. Shhhhhhhhh---------- Don't tell Leeroy yet ! Shhhhhhhh , I promised to tell him a couple of tricks if he would be so kind as to experiment and quantify startability between full advance and full retard. Don't TELL him Moe ! Don't tell him. -Carl Lets get this magneto timed correctly first :-) cant start it at all with full retard. Also when driving moving from half retard to full only makes a slight difference so I still believe the time Ng is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leeroy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Haven't got back to the starting issue yet, but have put in new spark plugs and a new Optima 800CCA battery, then sort of moved onto the brakes :-) Haven't even tried turning it over, but will get there! Just thought I'd share the below pics, I picked this up for $20 !!!!! Plan is to rebuild this one, as it looks in better condition than mine, rip the venturi out and machine a new brass one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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