50 Special 40D Signals and Series 1 or 2 & Progress

[Doug1414]

I have been talking with many of you for a while now and have made progress because of your expertise.  Thanks again.  I have a few questions but will give you a progress report first.  I have been able to drive the car around the block 3 times now and am sure I was smiling the whole time.  Looked funny though as the front fenders and hood were still in garage.  I guess I was too anxious.  I live in an over 55 community so there is hardly any traffic and if there is they are going around 15 MPH as that is our speed limit.  Since then I have bolted them back on and hired a flatbed (not registered yet) to take it 12 miles to a friends garage.  I spent the last two days with a dual action sander cutting down the primer and getting it ready for another coat.  Hopefully it will be ready to paint within a week.  Geneva Green just like it came out of the factory.  SO HAPPY!!! 

 

Also, I bought a 2005 Buick Le Sabre Custom with almost every option.  Air bags and all.  What a beautiful ride.  All leather.  Buick's are GREAT!!  Always looking for another from the 50's.  Don't tell the wife though.  Maybe she just won't notice.

 

QUESTIONS!!

As I read my shop manual I see there was a model with directional signals and a model without.  I was told at this forum that I had a model 40D as my # is 60852674 and the Style # is 4469D.  He said I had a model 40 because the last digit is a 4 so I have been going with that.  Now I know the lowest model was a 40 so I am guessing maybe it did not come with signals.  Also, the steering column does not have a threaded hole on the right side (as pictured in manual) to screw in a signal lever.  My guess is it was originally a non-signaling car.  The mechanic that rewired the car (who has since died) has labeled wires for directional signals so I am confused.  

 

1.  Is there a way to tell by the VIN if this car was built with signals??

2.  How do I tell if this car is Series 1 or Series 2??

 

Thanks again and looking forward to your replies!!

 

Doug1414

50 Special 40D Second Owner

05 Le Sabre Custom 3rd Owner

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Morning, Doug,

 

  I have been reviewing some of the threads on your car.  I am still unsure of which car you have.   Before I try to answer your questions, I will say I know enough 1950 Buicks to get myself into trouble. But I will try.

 

  #1. I don't think so.  Signals seem to have been an option, at least on the Special. If there is no signal lever, or at least no hole for one in the steering column, yours was probably a signal delete.

 

  #2    One of the easiest ways I know to determine early/late series is the hood latches. Early ones required a "key" which inserted into the port hole in the hood and one twisted to lock/unlock. Later, or 2nd series, Use a pull cable beneath the dash near the doors.

 

 Now to your Model number,  Or "which car do I have" question.  I can not locate a picture of your car. Have you posted one?     Buick used Numbers to designate Series  .  Roadmaster was 70 series. Super was 50 series.  Special was 40 series.  All Model numbers begin with the first digit of the series. In your case, If yours is a Special, a 4.   I am looking at the data plate from the cowl of mine. Top line shows     1950  MOD 50-41D

           second                STYLE NO 50 4469D

            third line             BODY NO  BA  6165

   I believe , using the style # you have posted, we can assume you have a MOD  41D, which is the four door sedan. Am I correct? That is, if the data tag you found came from your car.  A picture of your car would confirm.

 

  For whgat it's worth, there is no MOD 40.  The SERIES is 40.  The MOD is probably 41D.

 

  In section 10 of the shop manual, which I believe you have, you will find wiring diagrams. Beneath each is a line stating which car it covers. These should help determine if yours had signals or not.

 

  Have I muddied the waters?  Hope not.

 

  Ben 

 

 

[Doug1414]

Thanks.  Between your information and the manual I see now that I have a 41D Model which is a Series 40.  That will help clear up some of the auto parts mysteries I have been having.  Most of the auto parts guys are 40 years younger than I so this will be great.  So 4469D is a 1950 Special.  And body #8087 is a 4 door sedan. 

 

I do not have a key driven hood but I do have the two hood releases near the doors so I can open either side.  It looks cool up sideways but has been a real bear to align with fenders and adjust.  Getting closer though.  So that means I have a Series 2.  Great.

 

Is there a way to ever find out the production date?  I read where 70% of 1950 Buick's were born in 1949.  (Same as me).  Not a fact I need.  Just another interesting bit of information.  I find this all very fascinating.  I love learning more and more. 

 

I have not posted a picture of my car yet as the first thing I did when I got it home was to remove all the chrome and take off fenders and hood so I could do a better job of getting it ready for driving and cosmetics.  I am now going in the opposite direction.  All under car duties are finished thank God.  Fenders and hood back on.  Car all sanded and should be painting next week.  Will then install chrome.  (I hear that is tedious).  Chrome came out really nice front and rear.  Are the side pieces stainless? 

Do I use chrome polish like I did on the bumpers?   Sorry to inundate you with questions but really nobody else knows in this small town on the Oregon Coast.

 

Thanks for your time.  The waters are WAY less muddied!!!

 

Doug1414

50 Special 41D 2nd Owner

05 Le Sabre Custom 3rd Owner

[Joseph P. Indusi]

I am happy to hear of your progress and the help First Born has been able to provide.   I would not use Chrome polish on chrome in good shape or newly chromed pieces as there is a fine abrasive in most chrome polishes.   I use any good cleaner-wax for this.  The side trim is usually stainless and can look better with chrome polish but the best thing to do is buy a buffing motor with some course to soft wheels and various compounds.  Use safety glasses and good leather gloves to buff the stainless.   You can buy a kit with different buffing wheels and compounds where you buy the motor.   With care and practice you can make the stainless shine like chrome.

Good luck.

Joe, BCA 33493

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Almost, Doug. Almost.  4469 is the STYLE.  In the case of mine 50-4469 indicates a 1950 style 4469.  The car in my signature is mine. Does yours look like that?  Four door trunkback. Or is it some other style, for instance a two door. Or a sedanette [slope back]?

 

  Body # has nothing to do with being a four door or not. That is the # of that body style built at that body plant that year.

 

  Ben

Edited June 15, 2017 by Ben Bruce aka First Born (see edit history)

[Bill Stoneberg]

A 41D is the Deluxe model which means you have the stainless down the side and a few other goodies.

A Model 41 is just a plain painted car.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)

[Doug1414]

Yes Ben.  Your car looks exactly like mine.  Stainless around everything.  So is has to be a 41D as Bill has stated.  I am wondering about installing it after paint.  Must be a bear not to scratch.  And I have some clips but am not sure if I have them all as have not delved into that yet.  Is there a place to buy a whole set?  Might be an easier task with new ones.  Or maybe the original clips will fit better???? 

 

And thanks to Joseph for the cleaner/wax tip.  Will definitely go in that direction.

 

So Ben, my body #8087 means it was the 8087th of that body built that year?  And Style 4069D indicates the trunk style as shown in your signature? 

 

Hope to publish pictures in a week or two.  Having issues with front fender and hood alignment.  Not because of former damage but because of all the different places you can adjust.  35 to 40 bolts with elongated holes all which affect the outcome.  Spend a few hours yesterday adjusting right front door to match opening.  But ended up with a nice fit.  Had door off multiple times and it finally came together.  Ended up with a 2 x 4 in the hinge slowly closing door and bending hinge/door jam so everything matches.  I remember swinging on my dads doors in the early 50's and now I know why it made him crazy. 

 

Thanks gentlemen,

 

Doug1414

50 Special 41D 2nd Owner

05 Le Sabre Custom 3rd Owner

[1953mack]

On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 11:35 AM, Doug1414 said:

. . . Is there a way to ever find out the production date?  I read where 70% of 1950 Buick's were born in 1949.

 

Re: PRODUCTION DATE

►  Your Body by Fisher Number Plate body information line tells me that BC 8087 was built in South Gate, CA and was the 8087^th Model 41D of a total 141,396 Model 41Ds built during the 1950 Buick production run. Yours would most likely have been built during the first month of the Model 41D’s production run . . . in October, 1949?

►  Your Engine Serial Number 6085267 (without the 4 suffix) tells me that it was built after the 500,000^th engine, out of the ± 672,000 engines built during the 1950 production run, which translates to a date a lot later than October, 1949.   

►  There are build-date codes on the Delco-Remy starter and generator tags after the part number. If you have the originals, that would give you a better idea of the car's assembly year and month. More importantly, that would confirm that your car had an engine transplant. What are the year and date codes on the tags?   

►  There are also two-letter glass bugs on all the windows that identify the year and month of the glass production. What do the codes read?

►  With the missing metal tag that had the Car Serial Number on it, you would need to locate the number on the frame and confirm that the number falls within the October 1949 C.S.N. range. 

 

Re: 70% OF 1950 BUICK'S WERE BORN IN 1949 

►  Hard for me to believe. There were close to 670,000 units built during the 1950 production run. According to some stories I've read, the Jetback Models got an early two-month head start, starting in August 1949. Production of other Special Models along with Super and Roadmaster Models started a couple of months later (in October 1949?).  70% of 670,000 = 469,000 units for seven assembly plants = average of 13,400 units per assembly plant per month thru December 31, 1949. I would be interested in seeing a copy of the Buick document where you read about this high percentage in a short period of time. Thanks.

 

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

Edited June 17, 2017 by 1953mack (see edit history)

[Doug1414]

Thank you 1953mack. This will take some research.  The VIN on the title, which is in the original family name who bought it new matches the number on the right side of the engine boss.  The bill of sale from the Buick Dealer matches the family name.  But the Body by Fisher plate I found in the boxes of parts is not making sense as the number on the engine boss clearly starts with a 6 which means Atlanta.  And you are saying the Body Plate suggests South Gate, California.  So the number stamped on the frame near the master cylinder (which I have looked high and low for) must be found.  Should I be under the car?  Manual says left frame side frame rail.  Is a side frame rail not different than the main frame rail?? 

 

I must admit to having boxes of multiple parts.  Gauges and hinges and other stuff so I may be dealing with two or more cars.  OUCH!!  I talked with the original owner who is over 90 but in great shape and he told me it was the original engine.  BUT his son had it the last couple years and he has passed.  The frame number is huge.  I love the car either way and it was never purchased for profit but I did expect to be buying an original car.  Maybe if it was on a lift and I could get a better perspective underneath it would help.

 

The glass wing window has:  AS-2-CG but one side window has what I believe to be AS 5C.  The C may not be a C though.  Tomorrow I will look into the generator and starter #'s and let you know.  And the 70% of all 1950 Buick's built in 1949 quote I stated I could not find in my Buick literature so it must of been forum stuff or just plain internet which we all know how reliable that is. 

 

So the final of all this is that if the frame has the same number as the title and the engine boss I have an original car.  So the body plate with style #4469D must of come from another car they were getting parts from.  The motor was definitely installed in Atlanta with a 6 as the first digit.  But the Body Plate might come from my car as it was sold in California and built in South Gate, California.  Might be a while before I can get it up on a lift.  Like I said.  Love it either way. 

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Doug1414

50 Special 41D 2nd Owner

05 Le Sabre Custom 3rd Owner

[Pilgrim65]

1953 Mack 

love facts and found your analysis of fisher plate amazing , going to look mine up when I get back to cyprus next week ,  I'll post be great if you can tell me any details about my 53

cheers

pilgrim

[1953mack]

4 hours ago, Doug1414 said:

. . . But the Body by Fisher plate I found in the boxes of parts is not making sense as the number on the engine boss clearly starts with a 6 which means Atlanta . . . So the final of all this is that if the frame has the same number as the title and the engine boss I have an original car.  So the body plate with style #4469D must of come from another car they were getting parts from.  The motor was definitely installed in Atlanta with a 6 as the first digit.  But the Body Plate might come from my car as it was sold in California and built in South Gate, California . . . 

 

 

Consider the following: 

►  You're confusing the Engine Serial Number format (no prefix, just a suffix denoting the Model Series) with the Car Serial Number format (a prefix only, designating the assembly plant) for 1950 Buicks.

►  A 1950 Buick Engine Serial Number starting with a 6 does not mean it was definitely built in Atlanta. Engines were numbered with a continual sequential number that started a long time ago . . . like 5 million-plus engines ago.  

►  Even if the frame does not have the same number as the title and the engine boss, you could still have an original car. Those two numbers for 1950 were never intended to be matching numbers. E.S.Ns. were running approximately 20,000 numbers higher than C.S.Ns. in 1950 . . . extra replacement engines built throughout the many years?

►  The starting E.S.N. for 1950 Buick 40-Series engines is documented as 5568000(4).

►  Buicks assembled at the Atlanta, Georgia assembly plant had C.S.Ns. that started with the prefix digit 6.  

►  Buicks assembled at the South Gate, California assembly plant had C.S.Ns. that started with the prefix digit 2. 

►  The eight-digit number (the first digit being the assembly plant's prefix digit) that is stamped in the frame rail is also technically known as the C.S.N.. That number should match the number on the metal tag that you are missing. 

►  California was one of a few states in the 1950s that I've read about that used the E.S.N. rather than the C.S.N. for title registration purposes.

►  Do the TRIM and PAINT codes on the Body by Fisher Number Plate that is on your 1950 Buick match the original colors?

 

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

[retirednow]

I used to have a '52 Super Convertible. The shop manual said that the serial # was near the master cylinder also. It wasn't. It was on top of the drivers side frame rail way in front. I could not find it until I removed the wheel well, and there it was

[Doug1414]

Well, that is all good news.  Thanks retirednow for the "under the wheel well" info.  I have not done a 100% search as have been inundated with a million other concerns.  And thanks to 1953mack for dialing in the ESNs and the CSNs in my mind.  I will never understand why people ever remove a data plate from any machine ever built!!! 

 

To 1953mack:  I removed some paint with my DA down to bare metal and found a yellow base (maybe a primer) with a green over that.  It is a dark green but not as dark as a Geneva Green should be (I think), which is the color that matches the data plate I have (14).  But then I do not know if this car sat out in the California sun for 20 or 30 or 40 years which would of made it lighter.  I will try to contact the original owner again but he is getting along now so I have to relay everything through his wife which turns very filtered as she has no clue and comes back from conversations with him that don't quite answer the questions I ask and I do not want to make waves as she is also over 90 I believe. The good news is the trim #43 denotes a grey striped upholstery which matches.  So the trim number is correct and the faded dark green below the AWFUL paint job someone did (not sure when) seems to be correct if you take into consideration all the years in the California sun fading the paint.  The car was sold by Fletcher Motor Company (Buick Dealer) in San Jose, California to the Hansen's which is the name on the title I have from California.  And if what you read about California cars using ESNs instead of CSNs is correct then all is well as the title and the engine boss match.  Looking forward to finding the CSN in the frame.  I am guessing you are right and I will find a prefix #2 for South Gate assembly plant.  I am looking at the original bill of sale and this car was ordered, not bought off the lot.  So it makes sense that General Motors would build an ordered car in South Gate when ordered in San Jose.  Starting to get excited about matching numbers again.  I find it interesting that directional signals were added as an option for $10.60.  So now that original question is answered also.  Thank you sir for all your help.

 

So to make a LONG STORY longer.  Today I am putting a primer over the worst paint job you ever saw.  Or I should say my good buddy is.  I have been sanding for 4 days and am happy that stretch is over.  Arms and shoulders wondering which war we have been in.  In about  4 or 5 days it should have its new coat(s) of Geneva Green and feel good about the world again.  Then comes the tasks of placing chrome on the front and rear and sides and around windows.  I am blessed with a car that the chrome is just gorgeous.  I will probably be picking all your brains out there for some info on that.  After that I am building door cards.  Wish me luck.

 

Can ANYONE tell me the best place to purchase the clips for installing all the window surround and side clips?       

 

Doug1414

50 Buick Special 2nd Owner

05 Buick Le Sabre Custom 3rd Owner

[jackofalltrades70]

Restoration Specialties in Pennsylvania is always a good place to look.

http://www.restorationspecialties.com/

 

814-467-9842

 

Matt

[1953mack]

I just came back from a salvage yard that I haven't walked around since the early 2000s. I lucked out and found three 1950 Buicks side by side in various stages of being stripped out over the years . . . a Special 4-door sedan, a Jetback 2-door . . . and a Super 4-door. All three Buicks had the Car Serial Number stamped into the front left frame rail in the same location, starting about 12" from the front tip of the frame (first picture). The C.S.N. is readable by popping the hood's left side free of its hinges and raising it so it rests on the right side hinges. When you're standing looking into the engine compartment from the left headlight area, look between the edge of the fan blade and the fresh air intake duct and you will see the topside of the left frame rail and the C.S.N. (second picture). 

 

 

 

I counted four rows of twenty Buicks between 1928-1959 and three rows of  twenty 1960-1980 Buicks plus a few scattered here and there. I took plenty of pictures good for a separate Thread. I will be going back out there in a week or two.

 

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

 

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by 1953mack (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Good golly, Al. Where would this place be?  Probably too far for me, but would sure be FUN.

 

  Ben

[Doug1414]

1953mack:      Boy am i jealous.  Here on the Oregon Coast we don't even have any type of junkyard.  Have to go to Portland for that.  Lucky you.  My Buick is 12 miles from me now so I cannot run out and check out your info about the CSN.  I will dream about it until Monday. 

 

I had told you earlier about being suspect of the lighter green color I sanded down to.  Well, today I found three other areas and ran into Geneva Green all three times.  The first time I got unlucky and sanded down to a repaired area that had been taken down to bare metal and all I found was the colors of the primer and putty and new color.  So this time I went to the roof first and there it was. Dark Geneva Green.  YEA!!!  Two other places to back that up.  So the data plate I have is definitely for this car because the upholstery matches the #43 also.  GETTING CLOSER!!!.  I am betting the CSN I find Monday (Thanks to you) will start with a "2" which means a California car which is where the 1st owner bought it.  I have the California title with his name on it and the number matches the engine boss so everything is coming up roses.  (Or is that Geneva Green?)  Thanks for the pics.  Wish I was there.  And while you are there grab that tire on the back of the Jetback pic you sent as I need a spare. 

 

Doug1414

50 Special 2nd Owner

05 Le Sabre 3rd Owner