Modifications and HPOF at Hershey

[Guest Blade3562]

Hello all, I'm planning on registering and hopefully attending Fall Hershey this year with my '81 Rabbit. The car has 28,000 original miles, original paint interior etc. Modifications include wheels, suspension, grill, exhaust and steering wheel. The wheels are 1980s period wheels(ATS Cups), the exhaust is a NOS period Abarth exhaust, and the steering wheel is a classic Nardi 390mm wood rim. The grill is a custom badgeless one my dad helped me make. Other than these modifications the car remains entirely stock. I do have all of the stock parts, but would like to swap out as few as possible. I would like to get the car the HPOF award it deserves! I have had the car for almost 7 years now and we are the second owners. I've logged more miles than the original owner! We took ownership of the car with 7,136 miles in 2010!

 

Thanks for any advice/tips or what I should do!

 

[61polara]

From the modifications you have listed, it is unlikely your car would receive an HPOF award without changing the modifications back to original parts.  A car of its age can receive only up to 6 deductions for areas of non-compliance to receive an HPOF award.  Another mostly overlooked area of compliance is non-original hose clamps.   You may qualify for DPC since the modifications are period.

[Guest Blade3562]

1 hour ago, 61polara said:

From the modifications you have listed, it is unlikely your car would receive an HPOF award without changing the modifications back to original parts.  A car of its age can receive only up to 6 deductions for areas of non-compliance to receive an HPOF award.  Another mostly overlooked area of compliance is non-original hose clamps.   You may qualify for DPC since the modifications are period.

All hose clamps are original, nothing in the engine bay has been altered. Original battery and starter connections are still installed. The only "new" parts are plugs, wires, cap, rotor, clutch, fuel filter and fuel pump. All were replaced with OEM Bosch/Valero for '81-'84 American built cars(fuel filters, distributor cap and various other parts vary for American vs German). They have the correct fittings into the distributor cap as well. Various lighting has been replaced with LED bulbs for increased output/safety, but all the housing and connections remain original.

 

The front strut mounts were swapped to 74-76 style mounts that are rebuildable and a compression design. The 77 and newer mounts are prone to premature failure due to being a tension style. I went through 3 sets of later ones (one set failed after 110 miles) before locating earlier ones. They are OEM VW parts and are a safer/stronger option. Would take a die hard enthusiast to notice. They were available on '81 Sciroccos, but the design was changed for the mass produced Rabbits and Jettas due to the cheaper manufacturing cost.

 

I cannot think of any other modifications to the vehicle. I have a 5th matching ATS Cup spare for the vehicle, I also have an extra original jack/toolkit under the spare. The original spare and toolkit have never been used and are stored in my house to prevent dry rot etc.

[F&J]

I am not into car shows competing or judging, but just from a "spectators view" ?  ... your car right now looks like a lowered tuner.  I doubt that is what people expect to see on a long trip to Hershey. People expect what Hershey is known for: Factory Stock.

 

I worked for VW when the Rabbits came out, so your car looks really screams "NON-stock" to me.  The wide/tires-wheels are the biggest issue in seeing it from a distance, and up closer, you'd need the stock grille.

 

Switching wheels and grille is pretty darn easy, if you want a much better chance/hope of any recognition

[Guest Blade3562]

16 minutes ago, F&J said:

I am not into car shows competing or judging, but just from a "spectators view" ?  ... your car right now looks like a lowered tuner.  I doubt that is what people expect to see on a long trip to Hershey. People expect what Hershey is known for: Factory Stock.

 

I worked for VW when the Rabbits came out, so your car looks really screams "NON-stock" to me.  The wide/tires-wheels are the biggest issue in seeing it from a distance, and up closer, you'd need the stock grille.

 

Switching wheels and grille is pretty darn easy, if you want a much better chance/hope of any recognition

 

Funny you mention that. The wheels are actually derived from the Volkswagen Scirocco R Cup. ATS designed the infamous Cup wheel for this racing series, and that's actually where it got its name. They then sold sizes from 13x4.5 all the way up to 15x10, they also did a very rare forged run in 15x7. Mine are 15x7 ET28 which was available from the early 80s until 2014. I also have two 15x7 ET20 which are date coded for '88. I haven't found an early set yet, but I'm looking.

 

The reasoning for the grill was a truck bed liner came out of the truck in front of me and my rabbit got sucked into it cracking the grill and left front turn signal. I have a NOS grill waiting to install, however removing the badge from my original grill is too dangerous, the reproductions are the incorrect chrome plate, and I cannot find an NOS one to save my life! I'll gladly install my original one, but with the damage the badgeless one we made looks better.

 

Original wheels are in my garage in primer. I cannot find a correct color paint or powder coat to match the original color. I also need to locate Michelin 155SR13s as that is what my car originally came equipped with. Haven't had much luck even finding a 155. The car had 175s one it when we bought it. Once I do I will have them installed along with the NOS Hubcaps and NOS Trim Rings!

 

It has taken first place at plenty of shows, but I always felt for being such a low mileage survivor it deserved the HPOF.

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Blade3562 (see edit history)

[F&J]

18 minutes ago, Blade3562 said:

 

Funny you mention that. The wheels are actually derived from the Volkswagen Scirocco R Cup

 

The Number 9 car you show has much different offset on wheels, not that it matters, really....because it still boils down to NOT being OEM assembly line Stock, (if you are serious about completion at AACA major meets).  Does not matter about what "might" have been installed by other owners back then, it's about "looking showroom correct to the JUDGES".  

 

By the way, not one single car or truck that I own, should ever be allowed at Hershey.  They all have something changed to suit my individual taste, and I sure do agree that my stuff does not belong there.

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Blade3562 said:

Original wheels are in my garage in primer. I cannot find a correct color paint or powder coat to match the original color.

 

No idea how much you have searched, but any Auto Paint Supply place can mix whatever color of anything, with whatever degree of flat/semi gloss.

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Blade3562 said:

Haven't had much luck even finding a 155.

 

I hear you on tire availability. Even tires for certain Aircooled VW are not easy to find locally in my area.   I never looked for a tire that would work for a Rabbit, but I'd be poking around the VW forum sites to find out if anything is correct/close today.

[Terry Wiegand]

HPOF means exactly that - Historical Preservation Original Features.  If you do not have the parts on the car that it left the factory with, then you do not qualify for this award.  End of discussion.  What you have is a late model used car.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas  aka  Doo Dah

[Guest Blade3562]

5 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said:

HPOF means exactly that - Historical Preservation Original Features.  If you do not have the parts on the car that it left the factory with, then you do not qualify for this award.  End of discussion.  What you have is a late model used car.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas  aka  Doo Dah

As per the rule book "Established a program to encourage the saving and display of collector vehicles in their original, as manufactured, condition"..."A vehicle may be entirely "original" or it may have certain original features such as paint, chassis, upholstery, engine compartment, etc. that are essentially as delivered." 2017 Rulebook 4-3

 

Encourage/essentially does not equal mandatory/compulsory; nor does it disqualify modifications. I'm not try to enter a chopped and channeled 32 Ford, just a Rabbit that's been loved/enjoyed. By your definition not having the correct weight and manufacturer of oil from an oil analysis test would be an instant fail. It does not require the vehicle to maintain 100% status as this would be impossible. There are also two levels of HPOF correct? Even if it fell into the lower tier that's cool enough! I'm the second owner and the car is 36 years old with just 28,000 on the clock. It was also built in westmoreland and I've talked to countless former employees who were proud to show me what parts they installed at the factory. I'll gladly swap out the steering wheel and grill as has been suggested, but the wheels/tires are currently impossible. Maxxis is the sole 155SR13 manufacturer I know of currently and they have a white stripe which is incorrect. They were also never OEM for Volkswagen. I also do not know if they are DOT legal. 175SR13s will not fit. My car came equipped with 13x4.5 steel wheels. 175SR13 requires you to run a 13x5 or 13x5.5. They would rub even with the stock suspension. Would be sad to see a survivor eliminated simply due to a couple period mods when I've seen non original paint and color vehicles qualify.

 

As for the wheels on the car. Only 50 cars were produced with the wheels, and as far as I know none or few survive. I believe they are 15x7 ET28-ET38 anything more and it would rub the strut since they ran 195/50R15s. They were never stamped with a VW logo. The center of the wheel is slightly different and was modified to give more strength to meet JWL TUV and SAE standards. More info on Scirocco Junior Cup cars here: http://website.lineone.net/~dr.dub/scirocco_junior_cup.htm

Edited March 11, 2017 by Blade3562 (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

10 hours ago, 61polara said:

From the modifications you have listed, it is unlikely your car would receive an HPOF award without changing the modifications back to original parts.  A car of its age can receive only up to 6 deductions for areas of non-compliance to receive an HPOF award.  Another mostly overlooked area of compliance is non-original hose clamps.   You may qualify for DPC since the modifications are period.

 

Blade3562,

Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum.

 

I would encourage you to read what 61polara posted again. You have an experienced member of the HPOF team giving you some excellent advice. If you have original parts available, you really should substitute those for any aftermarket parts if you wish to have the car certified in HPOF. 

[61polara]

Blade3562,

You have a great looking car and are having a lot of fun with it, but sometimes we have to make choices in life.  Right now you have a fun, modified car that you are having a great time with.  You want a HPOF certification.  You have to choose which road you want to follow.  Your car can continue to be a great modified car or it can be a great HPOF car, but not both.

 

You've found the judges manual, so look a little farther into it and you will find a sample HPOF judging sheet.  Judge the car yourself and see where you wind up.  Read the entire manual, because areas of point deductions that apply to point judged cars also apply for deductions in HPOF.  HPOF was created because a lot of nice cars were being restored to original just to win an award and AACA wanted to find a way to preserve these cars as examples of how the car should be restored.  Your car does not represent that now, but it can be converted back to that.

 

If I were judging you car from the pictures and your description of it, I would first look at fact that it appears to be lowered, so I'm looking into that.  Also, the wheels and tires don't appear correct.  The original 155SR13 may not be available but a 155/80R-13 is and would be no deduction as it is the same size tire.  The current wheels are aftermarket.  It doesn't matter if an aftermarket supplier made them to look similar to what the factory made, they are aftermarket.  I would want to see factory documentation on the roof rack.  The steering wheel will cost you a deduction, so you would need to go back to the original.  LED light bulbs will be a deduction as well.  When we look under the car to determine why it looks lowered, we will see your aftermarket exhaust.  Your grill is another issue.  The replacement grill with a bad badge most likely would not be a deduction only for a rough looking badge.

 

You have to make the choice.  Do you want to have an HPOF car or a modified car.  You can go either way at this point.  It's you decision to make, but it can't be both. 

I hope this helps.

Edited March 12, 2017 by 61polara
Correct tire size stated (see edit history)

[charlier]

Blade3562,

 

First of all nice Rabbit!

 

With all due respect, I believe you are confusing "Period Correct" parts with "Original Features". HPOF stands for Historic Preservation of Original Features.  To me "Original Features" means features or options that came on your Rabbit from the Westmoreland Factory. Also included in that would be Rabbit Accessories that appear in the VW Parts Catalog or in Rabbit Accessory literature publish by VW. Yes, your ATS Cups and Abarth exhaust may be period correct but those items did not come on a 1981 Rabbit and were not listed in the VW accessories catalog (same goes for your steering wheel). Also, AFAIK, no VW Rabbit ever came from the Westmoreland factory with a badgeless grill. The roof rack in your photo appears to be clamped onto the rain gutters. Rabbits from that time period had a VW Accessory called the "Four Seasons Sports Carrier". That carrier did not clamp to the rain gutters. The roof rack you have was sold to Rabbit owners back in the day but I doubt it was a VW accessory since it does not appear in any VW Accessory catalog I have seen.

 

Others here have also noticed that you have lowered your Rabbit from the factory stock height and they would be correct. Your original wheels should be 4.5Jx13 steel wheels (they could also be the 5Jx13 wheels) and the tires should be 155/80R13 steel belted radial tires. You should also realize that when it comes to tires Brand "is unimportant" per the Judging Guidelines (pg 2-22 #11).  Therefore, it is NOT CRITICAL that the tires on your Rabbit be Michelins. Any brand will do as long as they are the size specified for your 1981 Rabbit (155/80R13) by VW and are Radial Tires. I know for a fact that this size tire is available from a few manufacturers other than Michelin (heck Tire Rack even sells them in that size among others). So you would be hard pressed to make a case that they are not available.

 

In case you are wondering,  I have owned water cooled VWs for 37+ years now, am a diehard VW person and an AACA Judge.

BTW, say hello to your Dad for me. He emailed me back in 2010 when you got your Rabbit because he knows I know a thing or two about them . I still have the same email address if you or he has other questions.

 

61polara, NIce post above, sorry if I repeated some of what you posted above. I was typing this post when you posted yours.

 

Charlie

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by charlier (see edit history)

[F&J]

This guy will never get it...People tried to explain the whole Hershey ideology in a polite way, but....he still wants to be accepted as it is..

 

He keeps yakking about "some" random Scirocco wheels, but his car is a RABBIT, Duh!  and his wheels are not even the same ones he found old Scirocco pics of.  GEEZ..

 

He uses one excuse that his car is not a chopped 32 Ford, but how does that make the heavily modified Rabbit any different? (Yes, HEAVILY modified; Suspension/wheels/tires/exhaust/steering wheel/custom grille,etc). 

 

AACA will never let a street rodded 32 onto the field at Hershey, and I'm starting to doubt they will let a "tuner"/ "ricer" style Rabbit there either.  

 

 

 

 

Fact of life is that there will always be a few people who feel that rules do not apply to themselves, or that it's OK to alter the wording/meaning of the rules.  Sometimes being polite does not work.

 

...below; he is trying to show us the rule, and somehow has come up with the meaning that his modifications can be Ok...But he missed the whole point of the wording which I underlined in bold type: I see no wording of modifications of the car.

17 hours ago, Blade3562 said:

As per the rule book "Established a program to encourage the saving and display of collector vehicles in their original, as manufactured, condition"..."A vehicle may be entirely "original" or it may have certain original features such as paint, chassis, upholstery, engine compartment, etc. that are essentially as delivered." 2017 Rulebook 4-3

 

 

.

 

 

 

[F&J]

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:38 AM, Blade3562 said:

The front strut mounts were swapped to 74-76 style mounts that are rebuildable and a compression design. The 77 and newer mounts are prone to premature failure due to being a tension style. I went through 3 sets of later ones (one set failed after 110 miles) before locating earlier ones. They are OEM VW parts and are a safer/stronger option.

 

 

Be careful when making claims that some people just might call you out on...  "Failed after 110 miles".  Tell the WHOLE story..  When Tuners/Ricers want to lower their cars, they also want wider wheels and tires.  The tires now hit on speed bumps and turns.  So, the tuner/ricer modifies things to combat those issues, and one is to use super stiff springs and/or stiff shock setting to reduce the travel.  They just can't seem to understand that this cause much more force on the suspension mounting points, so they blame failures on "some manufacturing defect".  Don't BS me...   I am retired VW mechanic, Factory trained on air/water cooled models by VOA, at World Wide VW in Orangeburg, also was ASE certified in Front Ends...so please don't feed me BS

 

.

[Guest Blade3562]

16 hours ago, 61polara said:

Blade3562,

You have a great looking car and are having a lot of fun with it, but sometimes we have to make choices in life.  Right now you have a fun, modified car that you are having a great time with.  You want a HPOF certification.  You have to choose which road you want to follow.  Your car can continue to be a great modified car or it can be a great HPOF car, but not both.

 

You've found the judges manual, so look a little farther into it and you will find a sample HPOF judging sheet.  Judge the car yourself and see where you wind up.  Read the entire manual, because areas of point deductions that apply to point judged cars also apply for deductions in HPOF.  HPOF was created because a lot of nice cars were being restored to original just to win an award and AACA wanted to find a way to preserve these cars as examples of how the car should be restored.  Your car does not represent that now, but it can be converted back to that.

 

If I were judging you car from the pictures and your description of it, I would first look at fact that it appears to be lowered, so I'm looking into that.  Also, the wheels and tires don't appear correct.  The original 155SR13 may not be available but a 155/80R-13 is and would be no deduction as it is the same size tire.  The current wheels are aftermarket.  It doesn't matter if an aftermarket supplier made them to look similar to what the factory made, they are aftermarket.  I would want to see factory documentation on the roof rack.  The steering wheel will cost you a deduction, so you would need to go back to the original.  LED light bulbs will be a deduction as well.  When we look under the car to determine why it looks lowered, we will see your aftermarket exhaust.  Your grill is another issue.  The replacement grill with a bad badge most likely would not be a deduction only for a rough looking badge.

 

You have to make the choice.  Do you want to have an HPOF car or a modified car.  You can go either way at this point.  It's you decision to make, but it can't be both. 

I hope this helps.

 

Thank you you for that explanation! Makes a whole lot more sense. I was unaware points car rules also applied to HPOF. I assumed being a survivor superceeded the points rules and was judged on a different system/scale. That helps with interpreting the rules! Where can I find the deductions in the rulebook? I really thought the AACA would have been more stringent on tire size and knowing I can use a modern comp is great news! Finally have a reason to redo my steelies!

 

Thanks for going through a brief sample judge. The rack actually has its VWOA sticker (ironically installed on the wrong side of the roofrack) and was NOS when purchased. How exactly does the point system work. Say I leave the wheels, tires and exhaust alone but replace everything else with OEM/Stock (there's no way I'll have the wheels and suspension refinished before October). The suspension is a coilover strut that replaces the stock strut/spring with height adjustability. Non VW so I instantly know it's a point, but is it two due to replacing shock and spring rather than just one? Same for wheels/tires is that one or two? The exhaust is welded in and not coming out anytime soon so that will stay. It's a 49 state system that runs from the header to the tip. The only obvious difference is the rear muffler is a 2 tip rather than a single and the black coating used to prevent rust. Another point. The car has a couple paint flaws but neither crucial and the headliner has seen better days. If it's going to be judged like a points car obviously these two aren't perfect so I'll add 2 points for those. That means if suspension and wheels/tires are each counted as 1 that's a total of 5, if they are counted separately that's 7.

 

Do LED bulbs not qualify as a safety upgrade like halogens instead of a sealed beam? They are simply Sylvania LED 1156/1157  tower bulbs. You cannot see them from outside the housing you would have to remove one from the socket. In fact if I had not told you; you probably would never know! I retained stock halogens in the reverse lights and front turn signals due to visibility through the housing. But for the brake lights and rear turns for fear of being rear ended due to dim bulbs I installed LEDs. I also installed one in the reading light to help with papers etc when driving at night. These can very easily be replaced with the original GE bulbs, but I thought safety superceeded original in this case. If it doesn't I'll just bring them in a bag and swap them out once I arrive. No point issue.

 

16 hours ago, charlier said:

Blade3562,

 

First of all nice Rabbit!

 

With all due respect, I believe you are confusing "Period Correct" parts with "Original Features". HPOF stands for Historic Preservation of Original Features.  To me "Original Features" means features or options that came on your Rabbit from the Westmoreland Factory. Also included in that would be Rabbit Accessories that appear in the VW Parts Catalog or in Rabbit Accessory literature publish by VW. Yes, your ATS Cups and Abarth exhaust may be period correct but those items did not come on a 1981 Rabbit and were not listed in the VW accessories catalog (same goes for your steering wheel). Also, AFAIK, no VW Rabbit ever came from the Westmoreland factory with a badgeless grill. The roof rack in your photo appears to be clamped onto the rain gutters. Rabbits from that time period had a VW Accessory called the "Four Seasons Sports Carrier". That carrier did not clamp to the rain gutters. The roof rack you have was sold to Rabbit owners back in the day but I doubt it was a VW accessory since it does not appear in any VW Accessory catalog I have seen.

 

Others here have also noticed that you have lowered your Rabbit from the factory stock height and they would be correct. Your original wheels should be 4.5Jx13 steel wheels (they could also be the 5Jx13 wheels) and the tires should be 155/80R13 steel belted radial tires. You should also realize that when it comes to tires Brand "is unimportant" per the Judging Guidelines (pg 2-22 #11).  Therefore, it is NOT CRITICAL that the tires on your Rabbit be Michelins. Any brand will do as long as they are the size specified for your 1981 Rabbit (155/80R13) by VW and are Radial Tires. I know for a fact that this size tire is available from a few manufacturers other than Michelin (heck Tire Rack even sells them in that size among others). So you would be hard pressed to make a case that they are not available.

 

In case you are wondering,  I have owned water cooled VWs for 37+ years now, am a diehard VW person and an AACA Judge.

BTW, say hello to your Dad for me. He emailed me back in 2010 when you got your Rabbit because he knows I know a thing or two about them . I still have the same email address if you or he has other questions.

 

61polara, NIce post above, sorry if I repeated some of what you posted above. I was typing this post when you posted yours.

 

Charlie

 

 

 

 

Charlie, I'm very familiar with your white rabbit!

 

My battery is about to die, so I may have to be more thorough in a later post. The roof rack is genuine a VW, it was NOS in the bag when I bought it from a VW collector. It still maintains a blue tag with the part number, the tag actually states place towards rear of vehicle but it's impossible to fit the rack in that direction hah. I'll take a picture this evening when I'm out working on my '88 Cabriolet! It's not a Votex rack but rather a Volkswagen one. I'd never install either of the Votex ones due to the nasty requirement of drilling through the roof.

 

Youre just the man I was looking to ask about the strut mounts. I have original swallowtail/dasher/Scirocco rebuildable ones installed. The current offereings for the late strut mounts are quite terrible as I'm sure you know. I've gone through Meyle HD, FAG and one other brand(blanking st the moment maybe KYB). Living in NEOH with our amazing roads when we replaced the stock blown gas shocks with new ones  in 2010 at around 7,200 miles they only lasted til around 10,700. I took them off the strut/spring when installing my coilovers to find not only was the rubber blown/stretched the bearing had desintigrated. The next set lasted(the FAGs) about 7,000 (it was around 17,500 total miles) with the coilovers, which wasn't bad, but still too fast. The next set is the set that lasted 110 miles. Heading to a car show an hour or so from my house I noticed my alignment went. It started pulling way left. Climbed underneath nothing wrong. Never thought to check the strut mount. Driving along it got progressively worse then suddenly leveled out. I'm thinking to myself well that was odd I wonder what on earth it could be. When we got to the show I opened the hood and realized both mounts had stretch a tad but were still acceptable. When I got home I looked at the mounts and they were fully blown! I took one out of the car to find a cracked bearing the other to find a separated bearing. Note I've removed the Dasher "D" washers as I have since learned those were dasher specific.

 

As as I posted in response to 61Polara, I did not realize you could run a modern compound/tire size in leiu of a 155SR13! Great news. I actually quite like the way it looks on the steelies but tire availability was I've put it off. Wish Coker would reproduce the original Michelins, I love the tread pattern! Maybe you're the man to help me find the correct color for the steelies as well!

 

I have a bunch of other comments/questions but I'm at 1% and don't want to lose this post. Thank you guys so much for the help!

[61polara]

Blade3562

Go back and read all the posts to you carefully. They are all very good advise.  I'll say again, you have a choice to make....HPOF or modified.  You're having real fun with this car now, but want it to be HPOF.  You can't have both.  Make your decision.  Value what the HPOF system is trying to accomplish and honor it not try to game it.  That is an insult to all of us, including yourself.  You have a great car that can be reverted back to a great HPOF vehicle and most likely receive the highest level of HPOF Original if you choose. 

.

If you want HPOF, go after it.  If you want modified, go for it.  You can't be both. 

 

I you want a fun, modified car look for another one and save this one for HPOF.  Your Dad's friend has offered to talk to you about this and I will too.  I will PM you my phone number.

[F&J]

13 hours ago, 61polara said:

Value what the HPOF system is trying to accomplish and honor it not try to game it.

 

Very well thought out reply.

 

 

...but he still will never get it, unless he shows up at Hershey and they won't allow it in the show. Then maybe it will sink in, but the Show Staff will then get slammed by him.

 

Silly statements trying to validate the modified parts; "49 State exhaust, only noticeable difference is twin outlet".  Geez, kinda like aftermarket tube Headers and dual Flowmaster exhaust on a "stock" 65 Mustang?  How is it not ?

 

He refuses to change things back; even the last couple posts, he gives constantly changed reasons on why the modifications are staying, but then IS "willing" to come to the show with a bag of incanesent bulbs to switch out....  WTH?  like having correct bulbs will make the chopped 32 ford OK for showing?

 

Some car shows and web sites get ruined by the modern generational thought processes of "I can do what I want" or "rules are subject to MY interpretation".   Keep bringing your pet hamster to the horse show with a bunch of nonsensical reasons on why a hamster belongs there.

 

.

[Bob Hill]

It's a pretty simple rule - it is the way it left the factory.  Your car did not leave the factory with those wheels, suspension or exhaust.  You can certainly enter it into HPOF but don't be surprised when you walk away without certification as HPOF.  My HPOF car is identical to the way it left the factory

 

Bob 

[Larry Schramm]

You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink.

[Guest Blade3562]

Thanks for the input, we will see you guys at Hershey.

[Frank Szymkowski]

Let him take it as it and let him learn the outcome, if he is given good sound advise here but refuses to believe it.

 

Some people just refuse to listen. He asked for advise here and argues with it after receiving it.

[Annie G]

Welcome!  It doesn't look like anyone has posted the Judging Guidelines for 2017:

http://www.aaca.org/images/judge/2017_AACA_Judging_Guidelines.pdf

 

Details of HOPF Certification are on page 4-13 (page 88 in the PDF file) and it details the class.

 

Then look at Page 81 - it is the HPOF Evaluation form and go through all of the modifications you've done to your car to determine if it is eligible for HPOF Certification.  From what you've described, you've done too many changes to get the HPOF Chip unless you bring it all back to stock and/or with factory options for the specific year of the vehicle.  

 

I've been showing my daily driven Suburban in HPOF and have had some repairs made which has dropped me out of Original HPOF to HPOF and if I keep having problems, will not be able to have it evaluated in this class.  I love going to the shows and enjoy judging, so it'll be what it will be in the future  

[charlier]

On 3/12/2017 at 4:26 PM, Blade3562 said:

My battery is about to die, so I may have to be more thorough in a later post. The roof rack is genuine a VW, it was NOS in the bag when I bought it from a VW collector. It still maintains a blue tag with the part number, the tag actually states place towards rear of vehicle but it's impossible to fit the rack in that direction hah. I'll take a picture this evening when I'm out working on my '88 Cabriolet! It's not a Votex rack but rather a Volkswagen one. I'd never install either of the Votex ones due to the nasty requirement of drilling through the roof.

 

Please post a photo of the blue tag with the parts number on it as I am very curious to see the part number. I think I may have found a "detachable" roof rack in a VW Accessory brochure and I want to see if the number of your roof rack matches that document.

 

On 3/12/2017 at 4:26 PM, Blade3562 said:

I have original swallowtail/dasher/Scirocco rebuildable ones installed. The current offereings for the late strut mounts are quite terrible as I'm sure you know. I've gone through Meyle HD, FAG and one other brand(blanking st the moment maybe KYB). Living in NEOH with our amazing roads when we replaced the stock blown gas shocks with new ones  in 2010 at around 7,200 miles they only lasted til around 10,700. I took them off the strut/spring when installing my coilovers to find not only was the rubber blown/stretched the bearing had desintigrated. The next set lasted(the FAGs) about 7,000 (it was around 17,500 total miles) with the coilovers, which wasn't bad, but still too fast. The next set is the set that lasted 110 miles.......When I got home I looked at the mounts and they were fully blown! I took one out of the car to find a cracked bearing the other to find a separated bearing.

 

Strange that you have had so much trouble with the strut mounts. I got just a hare over 95,000 miles on the original mounts in my Rabbit before replacing them. I did replace the replacement ones with new OEM VW strut mounts w/bearings and new struts in the original, restored strut housings when I restored my Rabbit. My 1981 VW also had long lasting strut mounts as well (over 100K) The replacements in that vehicle are around 60K at this point. As you probably know, Meyle and FAG have been making parts for VWs for a long time. I suppose the quality of there parts could have declined in recent years but I have not seen it. Buying parts for VWs made in other countries (other than Germany) is a different story when it comes to quality. Given the number of parts issues you have had and given your roads are 1000% better than here in Pennsylvania I suspect your problem is being caused by your suspension modifications (coilovers, etc) and/or your setup and/or your current wheels and tires. Those things are the constants with regard to your problem. Having so many parts wear out prematurely and/or fail makes it unlikely that the cause is simply poor quality parts but moreso related to your setup. That is just my opinion.

 

On 3/12/2017 at 4:26 PM, Blade3562 said:

As as I posted in response to 61Polara, I did not realize you could run a modern compound/tire size in leiu of a 155SR13! Great news. I actually quite like the way it looks on the steelies but tire availability was I've put it off. Wish Coker would reproduce the original Michelins, I love the tread pattern! Maybe you're the man to help me find the correct color for the steelies as well!

 

FYI, the tire size for your Rabbit (and mine too) is 155/80R13 as published by VW. I have seen one VW spec sheet VW published that referred to the tire size as 155SR13. If I were you I would not repaint your original VW Steel wheels. They are original right now, why repaint them? HPOF is all about "Original" not necessarily about shiny or new looking (ie repainted). At a VW show repainted wheels may get you a few points in HPOF that is not necessarily the case.

 

Regarding the modifications you have made to your Rabbit.... Given the non-factory/non-VW parts, the VW parts from other models/years both seen in the photos you posted and that you have mentioned in your posts and the missing original parts it would be absolutely impossible for your Rabbit to be certified as HPOF Original. It is also unlikely that it would be certified as HPOF. I suspect there may also be some other items that might be missing or that would be subject to deduction that have not been seen in the photos or discussed here. For example, when you replaced the exhaust did you remove the catalytic converter? If so, that falls into the missing original parts category and could be subject to deduction. Be advised that everything in this post is not meant to be mean or mean spirited but to educate you like others have tried to do in a few of their posts. That way you can make an informed decision and should your Rabbit not be certified HPOF you will know why.

 

As 61polara has said you need to make a choice. Keep your Rabbit the way it is right now and enjoy it as you have modified it or you can put it back to it's original factory condition. That is your choice.

 

By now, you have probably figured out that the way AACA runs their National Meets is NOT like the way many, if not all, VW Shows are run. (ie allowing a certain number of modifications in a stock class WITHOUT penalty). AACA does not work that way, never has, never will. I have worked at 100s and 100s of VW Shows over the years and judged probably close to 2000 water cooled VWs. I have never, ever, been at a VW show and not been asked the question "How many mods can I have in the stock class?" Boy I wish I had a $1 for every time I heard that question over the last 20+ years.

 

Good Luck with your decision.

 

Charlie

Edited March 19, 2017 by charlier (see edit history)