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Jim Milewski

65 Riveria - need general opinions

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Tom,

 

Some of these wheels have an X stamped into the face of the center cap hub.  Which wheels were stamped with the X  ?

 

Thanks, Ed 

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50 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Tom,

 

Some of these wheels have an X stamped into the face of the center cap hub.  Which wheels were stamped with the X  ?

 

Thanks, Ed 

Hi Ed,

  I am not seeing an X on either wheel? Unless you have viewed pics which are not posted? The first wheel looks like it could have an X but I think that is just a spot of dirt. This is consistent with Jim`s stating the 2 inch `65 center cap fit this wheel. A wheel with a stamped X would have a 2-1/8th center hole which would make a very, very sloppy fit of the center cap. I`m assuming Jim would have picked this up as he described his later wheels, which would also have a 2-1/8th center hole, as not having the proper center cap fit.

  Jim, is there an X stamped in either of the wheels in your LAST post?

  Tom Mooney

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13 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

Hi Ed,

  I am not seeing an X on either wheel? Unless you have viewed pics which are not posted? The first wheel looks like it could have an X but I think that is just a spot of dirt. This is consistent with Jim`s stating the 2 inch `65 center cap fit this wheel. A wheel with a stamped X would have a 2-1/8th center hole which would make a very, very sloppy fit of the center cap. I`m assuming Jim would have picked this up as he described his later wheels, which would also have a 2-1/8th center hole, as not having the proper center cap fit.

  Jim, is there an X stamped in either of the wheels in your LAST post?

  Tom Mooney

I didn't see one either, I was just curious as to what your information is about any wheels that have been stamped with an X.

 

When I referred to "these" wheels I didn't mean the ones pictured.  Bad grammar on my end.

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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Thank you both for your expertise and info, it helps a great dea,  not quite sure where to look for an "x" but will, will take pics of the other two wheels and post, am going to replace all the stems as they are getting checked, when I do I will check numbers on the rims - expect pics in a few days - Thanks again

PS what is your opinion about the reg ring - doesn't appear to have been cut and it appears to be factory added - but I am by no means an expert in welding

 

 

Jim

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Tom

Here are pics of the other two, the fourth on I know is 2" ctr hub with no ring, did not see an X

Thanks - Jim

IMG_0076.JPG

IMG_0077.JPG

IMG_0078.JPG

IMG_0079.JPG

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Many of these wheels have a date code stamped into the backside of one of the 5 inserts. I can see the code in one pic but not good enough to read it. You will see a large letter with number inside it. Letter is month, number is year.

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Gotta love this forum - everyone is very helpful and knowledgeable - letters are "D" with a zero and my spare is "A" with a five - assuming D is December and 1970? and A is April and 1965?

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If the codes are similar to build date codes, then A - E would be weeks 1 - 5 and the number 1 - 12 would be the month Jan. - Dec.  I don't think they'd use letters for months; there'd be no way to differentiate January, June, and July. 

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1 hour ago, Jim Milewski said:

Gotta love this forum - everyone is very helpful and knowledgeable - letters are "D" with a zero and my spare is "A" with a five - assuming D is December and 1970? and A is April and 1965?

Refer to my reply after posting the first set of pics. Your first wheel is January of `65. I wasnt more definitive about my interpretation as it was very difficult to read the number within the letter but the features of the wheel are wholly consistent with a `65 wheel.

  Tom

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22 minutes ago, RivNut said:

If the codes are similar to build date codes, then A - E would be weeks 1 - 5 and the number 1 - 12 would be the month Jan. - Dec.  I don't think they'd use letters for months; there'd be no way to differentiate January, June, and July. 

Ed,

  "A" is first month, "B" is second month, etc....

  Tom

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2 hours ago, Jim Milewski said:

Gotta love this forum - everyone is very helpful and knowledgeable - letters are "D" with a zero and my spare is "A" with a five - assuming D is December and 1970? and A is April and 1965?

Both appear to be disc brake style wheels, 853`2 which were manufactured from 67-1/2 thru  `70. Can you see the difference in appearance in terms of the "step" in the lug nut area of the face of these wheels as compared to the first wheel you posted which is the correct `65 wheel?? Both of the above wheels have the "step" which, depending on the angle of light, will stand out prominently..

This has been a good exercise and I hope it clears things up for you, Jim, or others who may be confused regarding the differences in different generations of the wheels produced over the years. Keep in mind there are "hybrids" of the different style wheels discussed here and it is not out of the question when examining the wheels one may find a blend of these characteristics which do not exactly fit these basic guidelines.

  Tom Mooney

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2 hours ago, Jim Milewski said:

Gotta love this forum - everyone is very helpful and knowledgeable - letters are "D" with a zero and my spare is "A" with a five - assuming D is December and 1970? and A is April and 1965?

 

D with 0 is April 1970. Tom clarified the other as Jan 65.

 

While we are on the subject: The date codes referenced are for the hub or center portion of wheel. There will also be a date code on the rim visible when the tire is removed as these were originally manufactured from two separate pieces welded together with no visible seam on the face of wheel. It is my opinion this manufacturing method made them a high end quality wheel vs the A-body rally wheels that had a continuous visible seam between the center hub and rim. Thanks to the seamless faces, our big Buick wheels can be re-chromed by specialists. The seam on the A-body wheels severely complicates the re-chroming process. Probably one reason A-body wheels are reproduced. 

 

Tom's excellent observation of hybrids won't be found in any of the past road wheel ID charts on the internet or ROA Riview articles which many people reference and use as gospel. As long as I remember, there has been confusion by many Buick enthusiasts over application of these wheels despite several reference articles that have been published identifying the major differences during evolution . These hybrids will likely continue to create misunderstandings for years to come.

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"While we are on the subject: The date codes referenced are for the hub or center portion of wheel. There will also be a date code on the rim visible when the tire is removed as these were originally manufactured from two separate pieces welded together with no visible seam on the face of wheel."

 

  These stamped date codes are often several months apart. Obviously, the later date code is the more accurate in determining when the wheel was released for service.

On later disc brake style deep offset wheels, Motorwheel started stamping the date codes on the inside outer edge of the backside of the rim...so the date is visible with tire installed. I would surprised to find that Jim`s `70 wheel does not have this later date code location.

 

  Tom

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Gentleman - Many thanks with all the info, and yes I can see the "step" difference, it is pronounced when you know what to look for, am going to put new valve stems on so I will be looking at the inner stampings, the only mystery is the register ring - will post dates after I break them down

 

Jim

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Tom - I checked the inner side of the rim with the tire on and did find numbers - M4 with a 0 under it and numbers 5    15    WD  - do you  know the code info ?

Thanks

Jim

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3 hours ago, Jim Milewski said:

Gentleman - Many thanks with all the info, and yes I can see the "step" difference, it is pronounced when you know what to look for, am going to put new valve stems on so I will be looking at the inner stampings, the only mystery is the register ring - will post dates after I break them down

 

Jim

Jim,

  Register ring is not a mystery. The first rim you pictured is the proper ring. I`m quite sure the others are some sort of sleeve someone installed or someone ground off the return on the factory register rings.

  Tom

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1 hour ago, Jim Milewski said:

Tom - I checked the inner side of the rim with the tire on and did find numbers - M4 with a 0 under it and numbers 5    15    WD  - do you  know the code info ?

Thanks

Jim

That is strange as the first code you noted is usually found on the part of the rim which is covered by the tire and not on the backside outer edge? M4 over 0 is "made for 1970". I`m not sure about the other characters. I would need to reference some other rims to refresh my memory. Generally, as in this case, it is unnecessary to go beyond the first two date codes which we have already discussed and I am very confident are accurate. The rim is for a 1970,

  Tom

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Tom - nothing is ever easy, and these rims are driving me crazy - I have 5 other rims, 2" center cap, no reg ring, center hub is higher then the rim (with a straight edge)  with different numbers -M4 5, M4-/3, M4-/4, M4-3, along with symbols on the inner web of 86 over 5, M4over5, - took pics of two of the rims, and the step is different 

Thanks

Jim

IMG_0081.JPG

IMG_0095.JPG

IMG_0101.JPG

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2 hours ago, Jim Milewski said:

Tom - nothing is ever easy, and these rims are driving me crazy - I have 5 other rims, 2" center cap, no reg ring, center hub is higher then the rim (with a straight edge)  with different numbers -M4 5, M4-/3, M4-/4, M4-3, along with symbols on the inner web of 86 over 5, M4over5, - took pics of two of the rims, and the step is different 

Thanks

Jim

IMG_0081.JPG

IMG_0095.JPG

IMG_0101.JPG

LOL...believe me, it took me many years and many cars to work thru the different generations of these wheels and sort out their differences...it was great when several folks published articles which sorted out the differences but by that time I had the characteristics of each generation of the wheels committed to memory via my mistakes/experiences, studying parts books, etc.

The wheels you are now describing are `71 and up because they are a more shallow offset. That is why the center "nose" of the wheel is proud of the edge of the rim. Visualize this by imagining the outer rim being moved INBOARD relative to the hub/lug nut area. These wheels are correct for Boat tail models and later.

I do NOT recommend using these wheels on a pre-`71 car due to fitment issues related to the shallow offset. Besides, the deeper wheels look much better IMO.

Sending you a PM,

  Tom

PS These should be "895" rims

Edited by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

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Tom and other forum members - thank you for all the input about my rims, Tom - yes the later rims do have 895 on the inner side, do not plan to use them for my riv - I think all my questions have been answered, I hope this thread helps others as it has helped me - hope to see all at the Buick Nationals in Wisconson and the Concourse in Lake George 2017 - will be showing my 1923 Buick model 48 opera coupe - spring cant come soon enough

 

Jim

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Will we see the Riviera in Reno?

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My Kid's 63 has the gray satin inserts and the Cat head center caps, I wanted to paint the wheels black originally but have grown to appreciate the gray! My Son loves the Wildcat centercaps!

 

2014-03-31122905_zps05f0de83.jpg

 

You can't go wrong with the road wheels no matter what color they are on these cars!

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Kaber, are the wheels on the 63 from a Wildcat of similar vintage, 63 or 64?

 

If that is the case, then does the 63 still have the large front hubs with LH/RH threaded studs and corresponding large hub ring on the rear axle hub?

 

My understanding is that these wheels are an easy bolt on replacement on 63 as opposed to the 65 and up Riviera wheels that require the small hub or a spacer to make them fit.

 

Curious if anyone can confirm?

 

Rodney?

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The 15 inch rally wheel made its debut in 1964.  It was only available as an option on the Wildcat.  In 64, the wheel did not have a register ring so it did fit over the larger 64 hubs with no adapter. The hubs got smaller in 65 and the rally wheel came with a register ring. In 65, the rally wheel was an option that you could get on the Electra, Wildcat, or Riviera.   

 

As you can probably imagine, finding actual 64 wheels, especially with that one year, one model center cap still in good shape is going to be an extremely rare circumstance.  I'd think a 64 Wildcat owner looking for a set of these might mortgage his soul for a set.

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