Beemon Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 No I didn't, but I don't see how that would keep the oil pan from coming off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 John, You were right, removing the flywheel cover did help. I just had to keep working at it to break the seal, twisted and it popped off. Now I'm stuck with the rear main cap... I can already tell this was a poorly done job because the two edge seals are different - one is rope and the other I'm guessing is rubber? There doesn't seem to be any oil on the flywheel, but I still want to pull the cap to be sure. Any tips on dislodging those seals and getting the cap off? Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) I'd start with Willie's rear main seal restoration tips on his website, if you haven't already read it... http://www.buickrestorer.com/rearseal/rearseal.html Edited November 12, 2016 by EmTee (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 12 hours ago, Beemon said: Any tips on dislodging those seals and getting the cap off? Install some longer 5/16 bolts in the cap. I rig a puller pushing against flat stock on the counter weights, but a slide hammer will work also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 2 hours ago, old-tank said: Install some longer 5/16 bolts in the cap. I rig a puller pushing against flat stock on the counter weights, but a slide hammer will work also. I used a slide hammer last time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 6 hours ago, EmTee said: I'd start with Willie's rear main seal restoration tips on his website, if you haven't already read it... http://www.buickrestorer.com/rearseal/rearseal.html I did check Willie's website, he said you need to know how to remove the cap, which I don't. I didn't think about threading into the oil pan screw holes, thanks for the heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) So I got the rear main cap off and I'm having a hard time figuring out where it leaked from. It was a rope seal, but the rope seal looks to be cut flush with the cap. I thought a little bit was supposed to protrude from the sides? Also I found out the two seals on the side are indeed the same, they're the rubber caps and it looks like oil was seeping past those as well. Here are some pics. The back of the cap looks dry but there was some oil there. I don't think it was leaking from the sealed part but rather the top of the cap where the rope seal was cut. I was also under the impression that gasket sealer should be used on the top of the cap to seal the two together, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I want to do this right, so I'll be following Willie's website religiously. Edited November 13, 2016 by Beemon (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Rope seal "excess" at the "joining point" . . . at least initially, prior to assembly, it would seem advantageous that a small amount of rope seal would be "in excess" to allow for compression to help further retain the seal in the groove, once assembled. Kind of like "the crush" of main and rod bearings, designed-in. Please keep us advised of your findings and progress. By the time it's over, perhaps material for a particular "How To" thread? When Old-Tank was assisting 5563 in getting his first '55 Buick engine (being rebuilt by a machine shop) "right", as I recall (from posts "back then") that the first machine shop didn't know some of the ins-and-outs of building a NailHead Buick engine, so it might have worked decently well, but not "as designed". Hence the need for taking it to a second machine shop of Old-Tank's determination (from experience). There can be some commonalities of rebuilding any engine, but in those earlier times, there were some things that Buick did and other OEMs did not, or vice versa KNOWING all of these little things is important, plus having enough building experience to know what and WHY they did it that way! And THAT particular knowledge base is decreasing as fast as "old car" salvage yards! After reading those earlier posts, I had the pleasure of presenting both Old-Tank and 5563 with "achievement awards" at our fall regional show. First to Old-Tank for his open sharing of information and expertise with younger demographics of the Buick hobby. Then to 5563 for his "younger generation" enthusiasm of the Buick hobby, assisted by Old-Tank and others, which would surely be passed on to still younger generations of Buick enthusiasts. I felt their enthusiasm for Buicks spanned a noted gap in the hobby, for which I felt they should be recognized and affirmed "as great". An orientation which these forums has and will assist well into whatever future might exist! NTX5467 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Ben, it looks like the rope seals are good enough to seal, but the side seals will leak with the gaps noted in the pictures. Run a wire around the upper rope seal (to tighten it), replace the lower rope seal and stuff the side seal grooves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 Willie, I've already damaged the upper seal under the impression it wasn't sealing properly... novice naivety strikes again! Both the bottom and top seals are not flush with the block so I had just assumed they were installed incorrectly. That being said, I'm having difficulty pulling the top seal out. I loosened all of the bearing caps for the crank but I can't get the crank to sag down to push the seal out with a brass punch. I should have just waited for expert opinions but it started raining and I was trying to get it done. For the side seals, you used regular gardening twine, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 If you have a gap in the upper seal, cut a section out of the old lower seal and stuff that into the gap. Install a new lower seal. Never cut a seal to fit. Use the supplied seal and bunch it to shorten and then flatten to fit the groove in the cap. If you don't bunch to shorten or stretch and flatten then when installed the turning crankshaft will bunch and shorten leaving a gap. Never cut a seal to fit! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Do I need to seal the ends when bunching more seal into the top seal or will it be fine separated but pressed together? Sorry again for novice questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Just stuff it together without sealer. And any twine will work/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) I think the next time I do this job, I will pull the engine out of the car. I started Thursday in what time I had between school and work and now I'm just cleaning up the oil pan. It started raining Saturday so I didn't even bother, but Sunday I tried to make a makeshift lean-to and I ended up just getting soaked. I had the day off today and knocked it out following Willie's advice. I just pray it doesn't leak, because at that point I'll just give it to someone else. On a scale of 1 - 10 with 10 being the hardest and doing this completely on your back, I'd rate this a good 11. Thanks for the help, Willie! If it doesn't leak, the next thing I'm going to do is take the valley cover off and clean out that road draft filter. Edited November 15, 2016 by Beemon (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 Willie, thank you so much for being patient with me and answering questions. I drove the car to the gas station tonight and there wasn't even a hint of oil on the transmission inspection cover or the oil pan or anything. Getting the car to start was a little bit of a bother, as I'm assuming it had to work itself into the rope seal even though it had been pressed pretty good (in my opinion, the car didn't care for it I guess lol). With the tach, it only got up to 2000 rpms, but it behaved at the gas station, whereas before it would have just left a quarter sized puddle. Not a lot I'm sure, but a significant improvement. I'll continue to monitor the rear main, but if it leaks again it's someone else's problem lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 A real test would be to drive it up a mountain with oil sloshed back to the seal . That's another reason I refill the crankcase with 5 quarts instead of the full fill of 7 quarts, adding 1/2 quart to maintain the level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 // Who ya gonna call?? LEAKBUSTERS!! \\ ----------------------------- Were you implying that after the repair, the "drag" of the enhanced rope seal kept the rpm level down? Just curious. NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 I'm not sure, it was just hard cranking over for the first 10 seconds. The car wouldn't start, but I think that's because it's cold out and the battery was weak. I had to jump the car to get the starter to spin the engine over fast enough to fire off. I did have to re-tighten all the main bearing caps back to spec since I loosened them so maybe the crank was re-seating itself? After the first 10 seconds, the car was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I appears the battery was weak. The main cap bearings torqued to spec should not have affected anything. Once the engine started the generator runs the entire works. The battery is just a storage unit at that point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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