Tired Engine - 33 PD - Opinions Needed

[hchris]

On ‎1‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 0:43 PM, blakew said:

Pistons #3 and #4 out. Ridge reamer worked wonders. The ridge wasn't too bad, but it would have probably caused issues with the pistons coming out for sure.

 

Broken oil (bottom) rings on both pistons, but all others seem to be intact. #4 gave me the worst compression out of the lot, but visually, there wasn't much difference between #3 and #4.

 

Top side of bearing for #3 rod was a little rough, but top side of bearing for #4 was super bad.

 

About time to clean the oil screen too, I'd say.

 

Pictures below.

 

 

 

 

What I`m seeing from your photos doesn't look like a 67k engine, I would hazard a guess that this engine has had some work done on it not so many miles ago. Given that you have broken rings there would obviously be oil burning, and the piston tops are a good indicator of this; I suspect also that the valve guides would be contributing to the oil burning.

 

Getting the rings gapped and with proper side clearance is critical, probably wasn't done last time hence the broken rings. As much as I admire your enthusiasm you really should be seeking expert help here, particularly given the state of those bearing shells, have you had a close look at the crank pin surfaces ? they should be mirror smooth without any grooves or scratches, if you can feel any roughness with your finger nail then the crank shaft will need machining.

 

Probably none of this is what you want to hear, but if you aren't meticulous about it then you will just be throwing good money after bad. 

[dep5]

On 7/25/2016 at 1:38 PM, blakew said:

Excerpt:

Any quick tips on removing the oil pan while in-car? Doesn't seem to want to traverse all the way out. Didn't really want to remove the steering linkage or a cross-member to get it out, but I may have to do one or the other from the looks of it.

 

As I recall the PD has a stiffening cross member underneath the engine which is riveted to the frame; it may be missing. I think torching it out was a 1940's approach to ease removal of the oil pan.

[blakew]

16 hours ago, hchris said:

 

What I`m seeing from your photos doesn't look like a 67k engine, I would hazard a guess that this engine has had some work done on it not so many miles ago. Given that you have broken rings there would obviously be oil burning, and the piston tops are a good indicator of this; I suspect also that the valve guides would be contributing to the oil burning.

 

Getting the rings gapped and with proper side clearance is critical, probably wasn't done last time hence the broken rings. As much as I admire your enthusiasm you really should be seeking expert help here, particularly given the state of those bearing shells, have you had a close look at the crank pin surfaces ? they should be mirror smooth without any grooves or scratches, if you can feel any roughness with your finger nail then the crank shaft will need machining.

 

Probably none of this is what you want to hear, but if you aren't meticulous about it then you will just be throwing good money after bad. 

 

The crank feels smooth where those top bearings were.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, and my level of expertise is definitely in the novice category, but I may end up getting new pistons/rings and new bearings for the time being and taking the engine out later down the road to do a full rebuild. I have an extra an extra block with a good crank in it (although not original to my car), so I can always have those to rebuild later if for some reason this engine is unworkable in the future.

 

Thanks for your response!

 

 

 

[blakew]

17 minutes ago, dep5 said:

 

As I recall the PD has a stiffening cross member underneath the engine which is riveted to the frame; it may be missing. I think torching it out was a 1940's approach to ease removal of the oil pan.

 

Yes. I noticed the cross members was riveted in. I had to disconnect the drag link, and it dropped right out.

[blakew]

On 8/2/2016 at 5:43 AM, GK1918 said:

and you had good oil pressure with that screen and those inserts????  hmmm

 

Well, it's what my gauge was telling me at least. I'll get the other bearings off and see how they are at some point. The mains may be ok. I was having a rod bearing knock. Did not have a main bearing knock (yet).

[blakew]

Update! Back on the road!

 

Took a while, but I did the following:

• Replaced the pistons with standard size pistons (Egge pistons with new rings).
• Replaced the rod bearings with standard size bearings.
• Kept the main bearings. The ones I removed to inspect looked good, and they measured just at the top end of their clearance range with plastigauge.
• Cleaned the carbon buildup on the head - repainted head - new head gasket.
• Cleaned all sludge out of the oil pan and oil screen and reinstalled with new gaskets.

Finally got it all back together this past week, and I drove it almost 60 miles this weekend (sometimes cruising 50-55mph).

 

Smoke is gone, knocking is gone. Good power. Oil pressure is still good. No blow-by out from around the dip stick like I had before.

 

For reference, I got pretty much all of my parts from Andy Bernbaum Auto Parts.

 

 

[ply33]

Looks like a happy family.

 

Sounds like your recent repairs are similar to the "shade tree overhaul" I did on my '33 PD back in the late 70s. The second one where I installed new pistons. I put about 30,000 miles on that including driving the car from Maryland to California before deciding to take the whole car apart for a full restoration. I hope and trust your repairs will provide at least as good service.

 

Question: Are those child seats secured to the car? It seems to me that getting a decent anchor for belts for the rear seats could be hard. On my car there is a little gap between the metal floor boards (which seem pretty weak for holding a belt) and the large frame cross member that is above the fuel tank, so it wasn't clear to me how one could put a set of belts back there and really trust they'd work in an accident.

Edited October 10, 2016 by ply33 (see edit history)

[blakew]

It was not an easy task, but I was able to secure them with a method that had been recommended via the Model A groups using pieces of strap iron. It took a while working in areas where I could barely fit two fingers at a time in. 

[TomP]

On 26/07/2016 at 0:31 AM, ply33 said:

 

Yeah, a bit jealous of you about that lift. My new garage as a bit more vertical clearance than the one at the old house. Not enough for a full height lift though but I could probably use something like the lift shown on this video.

 

Hi Tod, just picked up on this thread, had been mine I would have found another serviceable unit to keep the car mobile and at my leisure check the original out, plenty of these engines out there, I paid $450 for a running drive train.

 

Regarding the ramp I picked up an almost identical 2 post,4 yrs low use $900  and not looked back, my PD sat on it 4 months now, removed the wheels and have clear space under. Win Win.

[Steve9]

Great to hear the repairs went well. Good looking family, I particularly like the period correct glasses on the kids!

[Reg Evans]

Blakew,

I want to install seat belts in my 33 PD 4 dr sedan and wondered if you had any photos of your installation.  Did you have to cut slots on the back of the front seat ?

Thanks,

Reg

[TomP]

8 hours ago, Reg Evans said:

Blakew,

I want to install seat belts in my 33 PD 4 dr sedan and wondered if you had any photos of your installation.  Did you have to cut slots on the back of the front seat ?

Thanks,

Reg

 

There is plenty of solid steel in these bodies, I think I would select suitable positions drill though the panel and back-up with 3/8" or 1/2" plate to tap the belt fixing screw, would also drill and tap 2 small holes to attach the fixing plates to the body so that it is permanent part of the body. Better to go on the heavy side than trying to make it pretty. Come back if you need more info.