John_Mereness Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I have run into problems with "lack of smooth shifting" with 600W in transmissions - often a 20's - 30's car owner's or shop manuals will reference drops per minute and have had luck in past finding oil engineers to apply formula to their oils. Also, I see no problem with rich - most 20's and 30's cars will just not be driven enough to matter. I also always carry extra plugs (have never fouled a set on the road, though fouled many a set in our drive) and a wrench for such. Obviously you want it rich by jet adjustment verses rich by improper float level or .... problem. The greasing story reminded me of taking out all those nickle grease fittings with the nickle covers and putting in a zerk fitting for the 1931 Cadillacs every spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 On 3/27/2016 at 1:29 AM, John_Mereness said: I have run into problems with "lack of smooth shifting" with 600W in transmissions - often a 20's - 30's car owner's or shop manuals will reference drops per minute and have had luck in past finding oil engineers to apply formula to their oils. Also, I see no problem with rich - most 20's and 30's cars will just not be driven enough to matter. I also always carry extra plugs (have never fouled a set on the road, though fouled many a set in our drive) and a wrench for such. Obviously you want it rich by jet adjustment verses rich by improper float level or .... problem. The greasing story reminded me of taking out all those nickle grease fittings with the nickle covers and putting in a zerk fitting for the 1931 Cadillacs every spring The owner called me and said that he has joined the Pierce Arrow Society. He told me that they have a lot of information that we can use to find parts to help keep this fine automobile in great condition. Its only been 20 days since I have not seen the Limo, I really miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 Well, I am back in the presence of the Pierce Arrow, can not wait to get back behind the wheel of such a great car. I have a good friend that has this great car & lets me take care of the cars needs. I am a very lucky man to be able to drive it to shows & just take it for a ride.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29caddy Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I seen the Pierce arrow when it was owned and restored by Ed Oberhaus in Ohio in his museum. He was a avid collector, and liked Pierce Arrow's, when he restored that limo no expense was spared--top notch--- restoration, and a beautiful example of a prestigious limo in the day!!!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 Thank you for the fine comet. I will be driving this fine auto after the Thanks giving holiday.I will need to check it out as it has been sitting all summer waiting for me to make sure it is ready for the road. I am thankful that the owner lets me take care of such a fine automobile. I am not rich as it comes to money, but how many people get to drive such a fine car. That;s worth a million to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 After talking to one of the guys who drove the Pierce to a show this past summer, he complained about the car shifting hard, gears not meshing well. I drained the transmission. The gear oil that came out looked fine except for the viscosity. It is about 50 weight. Pierce Arrow says it should be what they describe as { Special Compound}. We ordered 2 gallons of # W-600 to fill the transmission and rear end. If the gear oil is to thin, the gears in the transmission will not slow down fast enough to mesh with the gear you are shifting to. I will see if I a on the right track when we get the new oil. What do you good guys that have helped me in the past think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Hi Chuck, I'm delighted to hear that this splendid car is under your exceptionally able care again. Yes, "Special Compound" AKA 600-W (or modern SAE-250 "straight mineral oil" -- GL-1) is the correct lube for the Series 36 transmission and differential. The same is correct for ALL non-synchro Pierce transmissions through 1931 (but see caveat below), AND for non-hypoid differentials which were used through 1928 (see further below). The good news is that the lighter oil you found in the transmission has served to flush it out, desirable because 600-W tends to thicken with age. My trannies filled with 600-W are stiff for no more than the first five minutes in cooler weather; that's the nature of the beast. The first Pierce synchromesh transmission appeared in the 1932 models, BUT the Pierce-Arrow Society has published P-A company documents showing a factory sponsored, authorized, and subsidized program to replace certain 1929-31 transmissions with either (1) the 1930 Clark 4-speed crash box, (2) the 1931 crash-box with free-wheeling (one year only push button for FW in shift knob), or (3) the new 1932 Warner Gear trans with FW. A good friend has a 1930 Model B club sedan equipped, years ago, with a 1932 synchro trans but with no FW control in the driver compartment--i.e., locked out. For 1929-31 owners, note the markings on the trans case to determine which you have. Differentials used by Pierce were non-hypoid through 1928. As a rule of thumb, if the pinion enters the pumpkin in the center, the diff is NON-hypoid; if it enters near the bottom, it's hypoid. Hypoid requires extreme-pressure lubricant, today's GL-4, available in SAE 90 or 140 (I use the 140). The hypoid lube on the shelf today is usually GL-5 designed for limited-slip, and is NOT appropriate for the yellow-metal content in pre-war transmissions and differentials. Please don't be tempted to use synthetic (GL-6). In 1997 I undertook a cross country trip in my 1936 Pierce, and filled the diff (only) with synthetic AFTER consulting with a Ph.D. chemist at a major manufacturer of synthetic gear oil. The chemist assured me that my yellow metal components were safe wit their synthetic. I stopped in Wyoming to refill a leaky rear shock, and was horrified to find the differential was as hot as the hinges of hell. I quickly found an auto parts store, bought GL-4 and a drain pan, and saw the dreaded golden sparkles in the draining synthetic. The GL-4 has served well and the diff has survived many more miles, thank God. I'm also glad to hear that the owner has joined PAS. I hope he takes advantage of the online support offered in the user name-and-password-protected "Members" section of the PAS website www.pierce-arrow.org (note .ORG not .com). If he has not already done so, he should sign up for that. If he's willing, he could give you access to check (1) the online Message Board for tech support, (2) the Parts and Service Directory, and multiple other resources available in the non-public section. Members can also purchase a thumb drive containing more than 50 years of the PAS "service bulletin" technical information, SEARCHABLE by topic and year/series/model. PM me for more info on this. Although we do not, at this time, have formally assigned year/series specialists, if you pose a tech question on the Message Board, you almost certainly will have an answer within 48 hours. It's an excellent benefit of membership! VBR, George 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Thank you George for the info. They tried to sell me synthetic and I said No. Now from your experience I am glad I chose not to use the synthetic oil as I do know it will find a leak when regular oil will not. I do also have the owners permission to go on his PAS site.I will have a conversation with the owner about the thumb drive. He is very willing to give me all the tools I need to keep this piece of history the best it can be. Thank you again for your help. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Thanks, Chuck. To purchase the **CD** (formerly a thumb drive) , on the PAS website, log in to the Members Section, then select "Company Store" from the "radio buttons" on the left side of the webpage. The Service Bulletin CD is at the top of the Company Store page. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 The owner has ordered the CD, Thank you George Took the Pierce Arrow for about a 15 mile trip this morning. Seems to shift better with the W-600 in the transmission. I am taking it to a car show tomorrow morning so I had a friend take a pic of me hand washing it.today. All I need is some nickel polish that i could not find in the shop .Called the owner and he is picking some up. Plenty of time in the morning to polish the bright work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Nice! I want to go to Florida in the winter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 We have 4 Acares and water and surage, come on down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 You will need a camper.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 AL, we have 4 Acaes and you are welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Chuck, how long do you stay? I think if I could find a place to hide for January and February that would be enough to take the edge off. The NE winter thing is wearing on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 We are here from November till April. Come on down, we have plenty of room, 4 acres for a camper . Water , sewage and a friendly dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 The key is the friendly dog! Must be a Lab or a Golden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 German Short Haired Pointer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Nice. Remember, never trust someone that doesn't like dogs :). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 AJ, my new place will be a bit bigger than my current as far as square footage goes, but the yard will be MUCH smaller! You and Pam can come down and vacation in January and Feburary and stay with us, I'm going to need an assistant to help clean and wash cars! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 Well I will be cleaning the Pierce for the last show be fore I head north. It is running great and I am happy. Just to sit in the Chauffeurs seat and drive this piece of history. It is a gift to me that I am so grateful to my friend that lets me drive this car and take it to the car shows .My trophy is talking about the history of this car. But I have never failed to bring home a trophy for the owner who has at least 30 trophies from the cars that he owns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 After driving about 1/2 hour to a show, the great car dies. Got it started by using the primer and got to the show. Drove it after the show same as before, died just before I got it back to the hanger. Hand pushed it into the hanger .As with many cars in my past, it sounded like the ignition coils .Contacted the Pierce Arrow society for help. They pointed me to a parts place that may have some Delco coils. No luck, went to ebay and found some that not being exactly what i needed but were 6 Volt pos ground would tell me if its the coils. Installed the coils , ran the car and about a 1/2 hour latter, it died. Now its up to the condenser. Changed out the condensers and that did the trick. I need this car running fine when I head north. Just looking at this car is one of the greatest feeling that a poor boy like me can have in his life. I drive it, and take car of it. Life is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Well its been 6 months since I have laid eyes on the great car. I have been told the Pierce is waiting for me to start and drive.First I have to take the 1929 Hupp sport coupe to a show tomorrow.Gee the tasks the owner gives me are so challenging. Who would not be up to show one of the best Hupps in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) Got best of show out of 200 cars Edited October 22, 2017 by Hupp36 miss spelled word (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Ok, the Pierce Arrow is calling my name. The note on the windshield says no fluid in the radiator and bottom hose is leaking. I need to get this great car back in service as there are many car shows down here that I would love to take it to and show people what the rich and famous people road in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 There's always SOMETHING to do! I keep a notebook in each car and jot down things needing correction as they come to my attention. After a 100-mile trip, there's always at least one entry in the notebook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 While waiting for a carburetor for the 1931 Hupp Model S, Started getting the Pierce ready for a show Saturday. It has not been started since April. I drained the cooling system before going north..Checked the fluids and this fine car started right up. Did not run it long as no coolant in the system. Have coolant in hand, after lunch going to install so I can clean a little dust off the car and take it for a drive. Life is Good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Did the final cleaning and ready for the show Saturday. The fun thing is talking about the history of the car. The look on their face when you tell them that the handles and metal in the rear compartment is 14 karat gold plated. I just love this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 How about posting a photo or two of the sumptuous rear compartment showing those gold plated handles? Have you used the chauffeur's trick for a nearly silent departure from the curb? Engage first gear with clutch only, no throttle, and at 4-5 mph shift to 2nd, no throttle until completely engaged, then step on throttle gently.... It may take a couple of practice tries to get this procedure down. Perfect for departing a wedding venue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Hi there Grimy! I got a chuckle out of your comment "I keep a notebook in each car and jot down things needing correction as they come to my attention. After a 100-mile trip, there's always at least one entry in the notebook." Good idea actually. Have you gotten the water pump on the Paige fixed yet? Sorry, just a little ribbing to say 'hi' with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Hi Wayne, long time no see. Yes, the Paige water pump is fixed. The one long shaft was cut behind the crankcase extension, and there's now a separate shaft in the pump itself and continuing to the generator. The next guy won't have to disassemble half the car to repair the pump! That said, the rest of the reassembly has been on hold for other projects, but I hope to get the Paige back on its hind legs by summer. Have a new wiring harness to install before re-installing the head. New valves, hard seats on the exhaust. Let me know if you come to the Bay Area. Happy Thanksgiving! George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 Well , got the best of show, small show, small trophy, but it was fun. Here's the pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Congrats! Thanks for posting photos of the brocaded interior with gold-plated hardware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Well worked on the string to see if I could free it up a bit. It feels a little better. We are taking 4 cars to the show this coming Sunday. I will be able to tell if the steering is any easier. If not I have to bit the bullet and pull out the whole steering column. As this car is a super restoration, that will not be and easy job. I may wait till before I head north so I can fabricate new bushings and check the cams in the steering box. I have tried taking the steering box apart in the car and could not find out what I need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLong Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 To free up the steering, jack up the front axle take the car's weight off of the kingpins and thrust bearings.. Pump 'special compound' through the kingpin zerks while moving the steering from lock to lock.. keep pushing 600w or even 140 weight through the kingpins until the steering does not improve any more.. Working on the steering gear box is a similar process. What happens way too often is that the zerk fitting on the top of the steering gear box as an indication to put chassis grease in the steering box. Since chassis grease does not 'flow', when chassis grease is put in a steering gear box, the upper and lower shaft bushings don't get lubrication, nor does the pitman shaft get any new lubrication once the old 'special compound' weeps out. The steering gear box, inspite of being full of 'a' lubricant, it will not get to the areas that need lubrication.. If can, remove the steering box's inner cover and scoop, then wash out the chassis grease.. Then reinstall the cover, and fill with a light gear oil, like 80-90wt. Keep working the steering wheel from lock to lock, The lighter weight gear lube will work it's way into the bearings and bushings. Once the lubricant has made it's way into all the dry bearings and bushings,, you will start to see the thin gear lubricant will start leaking out the pitman arm and the bottom of the gear box's seal around the throttle and timing rods. You can remove the steering box cover and let the light lubricant drain, or you might be able to use a suction gun with a thin suction tube. Replace with 600w or thicker gear lubricant. With the very extensive and well done restoration on this car, i doubt that the steering box was ignored. So the stiffness in the steering system seems most likely to be lubrication-related.. Greg Long 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Well Thanks to my good friend Dale, he said that I was the only one that should take care of this car, it now is in N.h. in my care and custody as he wished. I will do my best to carry out his wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 Well after getting the proper insurance needed, its time to take the P/A out to see the community and let the town people see a car that has never been seen in a small town like where we live. I signed it up for a show on Aug. 4th. Dale would be happy that I am showing the car, I am happy toooo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLong Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Please joint the Pierce-Arrow Society as Dale had. There is a North East Region that has a get-together each year. The Pierce Arrow Society has an annual meet each year in various parts of the country. This year, 2018, the meet was in Grimy's back yard: North of San Francisco in Sonoma Wine Country. It was a wonderful meet. Several PAS members from New England arrived and had a great time. Next year, June 10-June 16, 2019, the PAS Annual Meet will be in NE Indiana, in the Pokagon Indiana State Park. We will have 3 days of touring and a great car show/judging show on the grounds of the host Inn within the State Park. If you can come, we'd sure like to see you and your wonderful car at this meet. Look on the Pierce-Arrow.org website for more information, or in the PAS publications. GLong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 I am a member of the Pierce Arrow Society and have been one even before I was the owner of the 1927 Model 36 Limo. I plan to make as many meets as possible for me.. I am currently restoring a 1925 Ajax and have several more Hupmobiles to restore. Money derived form sale of these cars is what tells me how many meets I am able to make. My main concern is to keep the Pierce as it should be as a piece of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 The show got rained out Saturday so the had it Sunday. Dale would be happy, picked up a trophy. My trophy is showing the car and telling the people about its history. As you can see by the pic it was a country setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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