Car wont accelerate well! Any ideas?

[Wantvegas]

(89 with the 2.2 Liter Turbo II)

 

The car does not accelerate well when you put your foot down and have the engine go past 3500 RPM. The car gets up to speed and drives perfect if the RPMs is kept below 3500. The engine revs OK and sounds good and it passed CA smog with flying colors so it can be running too bad...right?

 

I am not sure what the issue is, it might be the turbo is not hooked up right or the transmissions drop kick?? The Transmission shifts perfect though with the RPMs under 3500. 

 

I appreciate any ideas. I just had the motor swapped on it, so im thinking it is some little wire, or line that is just not hooked up right and once the car hits the 3500 rang and the turbo spools up, that power doesn't get to the wheels.

 

I am finally sooo close to having this car be back to its former glory with this being the only issue. Thank you!!! 

[Reaper1]

First thing, run the engine codes. See if there are any obvious issues. This can be done simply following this procedure (do NOT start the engine): use the ignition key and turn the car on/off 3 times, letting it stay in the "run" position (NOT started) the third time. Once you do that, watch the Check Engine Light. It will start to flash. Write down the count of the flashes. The last code *should* be 55 (five blinks a short break and then five more blinks). You can look up what the codes mean on Allpar.com and people on here and the other Turbo Mopar forums are more than happy to help.

[Wantvegas]

First thing, run the engine codes. See if there are any obvious issues. This can be done simply following this procedure (do NOT start the engine): use the ignition key and turn the car on/off 3 times, letting it stay in the "run" position (NOT started) the third time. Once you do that, watch the Check Engine Light. It will start to flash. Write down the count of the flashes. The last code *should* be 55 (five blinks a short break and then five more blinks). You can look up what the codes mean on Allpar.com and people on here and the other Turbo Mopar forums are more than happy to help.

Awesome! Will do the moment i get home! However, there is no check engine light on right now. Does that matter?  Thank you! 

[jayspartanburg]

Yes you can still have codes without a check engine light.

[Wantvegas]

First thing, run the engine codes. See if there are any obvious issues. This can be done simply following this procedure (do NOT start the engine): use the ignition key and turn the car on/off 3 times, letting it stay in the "run" position (NOT started) the third time. Once you do that, watch the Check Engine Light. It will start to flash. Write down the count of the flashes. The last code *should* be 55 (five blinks a short break and then five more blinks). You can look up what the codes mean on Allpar.com and people on here and the other Turbo Mopar forums are more than happy to help.

It look to me like 2-2-2-55. I can't seem to match that up on Allpar.com. Am i missing something or reading the codes wrong? 

 

See here for my codes:

https://youtu.be/6eKSY11MFVk 

Edited December 25, 2015 by Wantvegas (see edit history)

[jayspartanburg]

Is that a video of the codes? I'm connected to my work VPN so I can't see it right now. JS

[jayspartanburg]

12-22-55. I just saw it from my phone

 

Code 12 - Battery feed to SMEC. No check engine light will post.

When monitored

- Ignition on

When placed in memory - If the SMEC memory has been cleared with the last 50-100 engine starts.

 

Code 22 - Coolant sensor.

When monitored

- Ignition on

When placed in memory - If voltage above 4.96 volts when the engine is cold or below .51 volts when the engine is warm.

[Wantvegas]

 

12-22-55. I just saw it from my phone

 

Code 12 - Battery feed to SMEC. No check engine light will post.

When monitored

- Ignition on

When placed in memory - If the SMEC memory has been cleared with the last 50-100 engine starts.

 

Code 22 - Coolant sensor.

When monitored

- Ignition on

When placed in memory - If voltage above 4.96 volts when the engine is cold or below .51 volts when the engine is warm.

 

[/indent]

Ok, thank you!!

Hmmm. So neither of those would cause my issue though...

[jayspartanburg]

If you lightly press the throttle and keep it in vacuum, can you go over 3500 RPM? Also can you give a little better description of what happens at 3500 RPM? Does it buck, or does it slowly accelerate or does it fall flat on its face?

[jayspartanburg]

Come to think of it, if the engine was just replaced the code 22 could be from when the timing was set. I would erase the code and see if it comes back, When the CTS is unplugged the light on the dash stays on. Before erasing the codes I would unplug the connector with the engine running as the CTS affects timing and fuel, and see if you notice a different Idle. I had a similar issue a few years ago in another car and I can't remember, but I think it was a fuel issue. 

[jayspartanburg]

When did the issue begin? If it didn't arise until the engine transplant, the timing might just be off. 

[Wantvegas]

When did the issue begin? If it didn't arise until the engine transplant, the timing might just be off. 

 

Yeah, it just started after the motor swap. 

 

The engine will rev fine and go all the way up without issue when not in gear. I think the turbo gets a bit loud and sounds like its releasing a bunch of pressure, but im not sure if its normal or not. Never had a chance to drive the car before the swap. 

 

The car just very slowly accelerates after 3500 RPM while driving.

 

I will try to clear the codes and see if i can check the timing on it. After i test it with the CTS disconnect. Where is the CTS located? 

 

How do you clear the codes though? I only know how to do it with the DB2 systems. 

 

Thank you again for all your help! 

Edited December 26, 2015 by Wantvegas (see edit history)

[Mopargary]

To clear the codes, I always have disconnected the negative battery cable,wait about 3 to 5 minutes & reconnect.

[Hemi Dude]

Yeah, it just started after the motor swap. 

 

The engine will rev fine and go all the way up without issue when not in gear. I think the turbo gets a bit loud and sounds like its releasing a bunch of pressure, but im not sure if its normal or not. Never had a chance to drive the car before the swap. 

 

The car just very slowly accelerates after 3500 RPM while driving.

 

I will try to clear the codes and see if i can check the timing on it. After i test it with the CTS disconnect. Where is the CTS located? 

 

How do you clear the codes though? I only know how to do it with the DB2 systems. 

 

Thank you again for all your help! 

The CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor) is located on the cylinder head to the right of where the Upper Radiator hose comes out of the head.

There is a 2 wire connector that you should disconnect AFTER you have started the engine and let it get to running temperature.

You will hear the engine RPM change and the distributor timing will fall back to whatever the distributor in manually set to. That should be 10 degrees before TDC.

It is best to use an adjustable timing light, but if you don't have that, make due with what you have.

 

Personally, I think you have another condition since you state that you hear a loud sound from the turbo releasing pressure. Check the hose on the bottom of the Air Box, where your air filter is, this hose may not be connected properly.

Get back to us after you have performed the timing check and looked for the loose hose connection.

[Guest EmmettTC]

Yea, sounds like you're not making any boost.

[Wantvegas]

The CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor) is located on the cylinder head to the right of where the Upper Radiator hose comes out of the head.

There is a 2 wire connector that you should disconnect AFTER you have started the engine and let it get to running temperature.

You will hear the engine RPM change and the distributor timing will fall back to whatever the distributor in manually set to. That should be 10 degrees before TDC.

It is best to use an adjustable timing light, but if you don't have that, make due with what you have.

 

Personally, I think you have another condition since you state that you hear a loud sound from the turbo releasing pressure. Check the hose on the bottom of the Air Box, where your air filter is, this hose may not be connected properly.

Get back to us after you have performed the timing check and looked for the loose hose connection.

 

Ok, so i did the CTS check. Once it was at running temp, i disconnected it and the revs went up. Check light came on. I am not able to time it though, due to i don't see a timing guide on the fly wheel?? No marks, nothing??

 

I checked the hose from the bottom of the air box. It is going into a bigger hose that is running from the bottom of the inter-cooler to the back of the engine. To the turbo i assume? 

 

I also took some pics of the area around the blow off value and other areas. So if anyone can take a look and tell me if it looks like the lines are not hooked up right that would be great.

 

Again, thank you so much to everyone that is helping me with this, its been a great deal of frustration trying to get this car up and running well and i would really hate to have sell it not running right and never being able to really drive her.

 

http://imgur.com/a/IB2KU 

[Digger914]

To find the timing mark you might need to remove the air box and scrub up the flywheel some. If you don't have an adjustable timing light you will need to remove the air box to set the timing and your viewing angle is limited.

 

Like Hemi I also think you have another condition, but we are probably thinking about two different conditions. The more I read this the more I think tranny, as in pinched vacuum line or cable that didn't get plugged in tight when things went back in place. I've seen this tranny but never really looked at it, so I don't know enough about this 3 speed auto to know if you can knock the kick down out of position without breaking the clip and sending it all the way to the bottom.

[Hemi Dude]

"The car just very slowly accelerates after 3500 RPM while driving."  

This has been your contention from the beginning. As for the transmission, what gear is the transmission in when you make this statement? 

In 1st gear accelerating from a stop or after kick-down to 1st?  OR 2nd gear as at freeway speed and kicking it down from 3rd to pass a car?

The speed of the car should be around 70 - 75 MPH @ 3,500 RPM. How is the acceleration in 3rd (high) gear, the same sluggish feeling?

If you feel this lack of power under all these conditions, then there is a strong possibility that the catalytic converter is plugged and what you are hearing is actually exhaust blowing past the exhaust seal ring between the exhaust pipe and the turbo outlet.

[Wantvegas]

"The car just very slowly accelerates after 3500 RPM while driving."  

This has been your contention from the beginning. As for the transmission, what gear is the transmission in when you make this statement? 

In 1st gear accelerating from a stop or after kick-down to 1st?  OR 2nd gear as at freeway speed and kicking it down from 3rd to pass a car?

The speed of the car should be around 70 - 75 MPH @ 3,500 RPM. How is the acceleration in 3rd (high) gear, the same sluggish feeling?

If you feel this lack of power under all these conditions, then there is a strong possibility that the catalytic converter is plugged and what you are hearing is actually exhaust blowing past the exhaust seal ring between the exhaust pipe and the turbo outlet.

 

It is slow through all gears around 3500 rpm and above. I can get the car up to speed 70 mph + so long as i keep it under 3500 RPM and let the transmission just shift as the speed increases. IE:

 

0 - 30 1st gear. Then about 30 to 50 ish if i recall, its 2nd and then 3rd on above. I can also manually shift the gears without issue, but again no real power after 3500. 

 

Its interesting that you say that about the cat, as my cat is rattling like the insides are lose or broken. I didn't think to replace it as it passed smog fine. Is there anyway to test that to know for sure its something with the cat? 

 

Or does this transmission have a kick down or any lines i should check for? 

 

Thank you again!

[4 Peaks]

I've had cats that were rattling, and the car would drive ok around town, but drive up the highway and it wouldn't get over 50 mph. The cat had come apart inside, and a lot of the pieces had gone into the muffler and plugged it up.

[Digger914]

Two ways to check for a busted up CAT core: 1. Put on a good thick glove, pound on the CAT and listen for a rattle. 2. Take it off the pipe and look inside.  The honey comb type core breaks up two ways: 1. It powders off the edges where the core remains as one big chunk and the powdered edges blow out the tail pipe and it clunks some when you hit the case. 2. It melts and fractures like busted glass and it rattles real good when you hit the case.

 

At this point in time the kick down is a non issue, it's a very low failure item, but it does stick up some and because it does it can broken in the process of swapping engines.

[Wantvegas]

Two ways to check for a busted up CAT core: 1. Put on a good thick glove, pound on the CAT and listen for a rattle. 2. Take it off the pipe and look inside.  The honey comb type core breaks up two ways: 1. It powders off the edges where the core remains as one big chunk and the powdered edges blow out the tail pipe and it clunks some when you hit the case. 2. It melts and fractures like busted glass and it rattles real good when you hit the case.

 

At this point in time the kick down is a non issue, it's a very low failure item, but it does stick up some and because it does it can broken in the process of swapping engines.

 

Ok, i will check it tonight by hitting it. It might be best to just take it to a muffler shop and get it replaced though. I do have a friend that can weld one on though, if anyone has a part number of one i should/could buy?

 

Do you know the location (maybe a pic) of the kick down? I can look for it tonight too and see what i can find about it.

 

Thank you!  

[Hemi Dude]

It is slow through all gears around 3500 rpm and above. I can get the car up to speed 70 mph + so long as i keep it under 3500 RPM and let the transmission just shift as the speed increases. IE:

 

0 - 30 1st gear. Then about 30 to 50 ish if i recall, its 2nd and then 3rd on above. I can also manually shift the gears without issue, but again no real power after 3500. 

 

Its interesting that you say that about the cat, as my cat is rattling like the insides are lose or broken. I didn't think to replace it as it passed smog fine. Is there anyway to test that to know for sure its something with the cat? 

 

Or does this transmission have a kick down or any lines i should check for? 

 

Thank you again!

If the Catalytic converter is rattling, it needs to be replaced, no question! Get it changed by a good muffler shop, take the car for a test drive. If it performs OK, you are good to go.

If there is still a problem, then the muffler will likely also have to be replaced.

You could of course take the other course and replace everything from the Cat back with a larger diameter system which could enhance performance and add a little more 'sound' to the system.

[jayspartanburg]

If you were to disconnect the downpipe from the turbo, you should be able to take it around the block and check for changes in how it runs. I have to advise that 1) the starter is right under there so I wouldn't run it with the downpipe disconnected long and 2) I would have some new bolts incase the ones there break. I always replace them when they're off if they are old. It makes life easier down the road.

[Digger914]

Ok, i will check it tonight by hitting it. It might be best to just take it to a muffler shop and get it replaced though. I do have a friend that can weld one on though, if anyone has a part number of one i should/could buy?

 

Do you know the location (maybe a pic) of the kick down? I can look for it tonight too and see what i can find about it.

 

Thank you!  

As this is an OBD1 system so you don't have to buy a direct fit and except for the two states where your options are limited, almost any universal CAT will do. The muffler and brake shop where I got all my under car experience stocked the Catco, brand and when it comes to converts it's the best bang for the buck, but don't go as cheap as you can. The Catco high flow is only a few dollars more and having installed both types on the same type of car, the high flow is worth the extra money.

 

Hemi suggested bigger pipe, if your converter core is busted into dozens of chunks you will be pulling the pipe to make sure none of these are stuck in the bends and it's a great time to upgrade. Bigger pipe will need to be custom bent and having made custom exhaust, I can tell you the that if you go with custom bent bigger pipe  make sure it's mandrel bent, or it's really not worth the extra money. If you do have to check for chunks in the pipe and you have a chunk you can't push out with a plumbers snake, you will be buying new pipe and as you're not going to find a direct fit system for the TC and you may have trouble finding a 20 year old Chrysler pipe in stock that can be cut down to fit, mandrel bent bigger pipe could be your best money option. If you have to pay for custom bending you might as well get something worth the price of labor.

 

If I remember correctly, the kick down connect for this tranny is on the upper back side just below the air box and if you don't see anything that looks bad, it's probably good.

[Wantvegas]

As this is an OBD1 system so you don't have to buy a direct fit and except for the two states where your options are limited, almost any universal CAT will do. The muffler and brake shop where I got all my under car experience stocked the Catco, brand and when it comes to converts it's the best bang for the buck, but don't go as cheap as you can. The Catco high flow is only a few dollars more and having installed both types on the same type of car, the high flow is worth the extra money.

 

Hemi suggested bigger pipe, if your converter core is busted into dozens of chunks you will be pulling the pipe to make sure none of these are stuck in the bends and it's a great time to upgrade. Bigger pipe will need to be custom bent and having made custom exhaust, I can tell you the that if you go with custom bent bigger pipe  make sure it's mandrel bent, or it's really not worth the extra money. If you do have to check for chunks in the pipe and you have a chunk you can't push out with a plumbers snake, you will be buying new pipe and as you're not going to find a direct fit system for the TC and you may have trouble finding a 20 year old Chrysler pipe in stock that can be cut down to fit, mandrel bent bigger pipe could be your best money option. If you have to pay for custom bending you might as well get something worth the price of labor.

 

If I remember correctly, the kick down connect for this tranny is on the upper back side just below the air box and if you don't see anything that looks bad, it's probably good.

Ok, great. I will be going to my shop in the next few days. 

 

What two states is it? I am in CA so i wouldn't be surprised if CA is one. 

 

Thanks! 

[Hemi Dude]

Ok, great. I will be going to my shop in the next few days. 

 

What two states is it? I am in CA so i wouldn't be surprised if CA is one. 

 

Thanks! 

Yes, you will need one that conforms to California. Try the link below. I hope it works.

I have found 2 at http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?D=Chrysler+Catalytic+Converters&Dx=mode+matchallany&N=0&Ne=1105000086&Nr=AND(worldpac:0)&Ntk=Main&Ntt=Chrysler+Catalytic+Converters&Ntx=mode+matchallany&Nty=1&PN=0+2268+4294812565+4294867914&VN=4294967144+4294964943+4294964905+4294967132+4294967090&refType=Emissions%7CLocation&refValue=50-State+Legal%7CCenter

[Digger914]

California is one, New York is the other and Catco is available in California. What you can't use in California is the super cheap universal CAT that meets Fed. standards and makes your car sound like crap.

[Nile]

You've probably checked this already, but the large hoses that run between the turbo, intercooler and air box need to be very tight.  When one loosens, the car behaves exactly the way you've described.  While most of these connections are readily visible, the one at the bottom of the intercooler is difficult to see and just might be your problem. 

[TwinCamFan]

I don't check in here as much as I used to Vegas so I tend to respond to old threads, do you have an update on this condition ?    My fiorst thought is the cam is a tooth advanced but lotsa things it could be... Also, what city are you in?