Guest Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 i have an aftermarket radio in my car. will i be docked for points and if so how many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordee9r (Ron Springstead) Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 Incorrect radio carries a 5 point deduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadsterRich Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 To further beg the question, what if the radio installed was an appropriate vintage aftermarket radio? That is to say it is not an OEM radio, but is of the appropriate vintage and style that would have been used in the car in the period it was manufactured?<P>Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 If it looks like the original in style and design for that car it will be acceptable even if it is reproduction and not OEM. But it must look correct and be mounted correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordee9r (Ron Springstead) Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 My best understanding of AACA judging revolves around one simple question.... "How would the car have looked when it arrived at the dealership for sale?". Some options were "dealer installed" but I believe they had to be listed in the manufacturer's catalog to be acceptable. <BR>Another phrase I heard in Judges School was: "Accesories can not add points to a car but they can subtract!". In other words, there is no way to add points for a car that has many options. A car that has no radio will not receive points deducted. On the other hand, if an incorrect radio or a correct radio in poor appearance would result in points deducted. <BR>It comes down to whatever you do to your car better be authentic and look good or you'll lose points. <BR>If I am wrong here, I hope HVS or Father Ron will correct me.... they both have more experience than I! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadsterRich Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 In my case Chrysler in 1930 on the 77 offered as a standard factory option on closed cars the Tranistone radio(before it was bought by Philco the following year). There is no mention of a standard option for a radio on the open cars, yet there is an option on at least one Chrysler price sheet listing an optional dealer installed radio for the closed cars. I can find no record of the model/make for this radio. I have literature from other manufacturers that list instructions for installing their radio in a 1930 Chrysler 77. Based on the strict adherance to the AACA policy then, even though this radio is of the proper period, and was likely installed in many of the cars, as an aftermarket accessory it would be a points deduction, even though of a proper vintage and style, as well as advertised for the car?<P>(I am trying to locate a Transitone for my car, in the meantime I have another radio with original instructions on installing it in my car, I had planned on installing it when I got to that point).<P>Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 The answer is simply - YES - there would be a deduction. If listening to a radio is so important, buy a boom box and hear the radio. If the radio is installed, for judging purposes it must be an original factory option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 fordee9er ~ You stayed awake and learned your lessons well in judging school. ~ hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 Howard<BR>Would you clarify a point for me? Many foreign cars of the 50s & 60s did not come with factory installed radios for US use, but they were expected to have a radio installed by the dealer. There were preferred brands of course but the dealer basically had the freedom to install any radio. Would there be a deduction here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 So whats wrong with having a after market radio in your classic car?I think its much better have a after market raido,than having the factory one fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Allyn,<P>There is nothing "wrong" with an after market radio, or any other accessory, if that is what you want the car to have. After all it is your car.<P>On the other hand, the AACA cannot judge each car as it was modified by the dealer. The documentation required of each owner and the logistics required of the judging teams make this infeasible. The goal of the AACA is to restore and or maintain cars in as "authentic" a condition as possible. The only hope there is of maintaining a uniform standard is to draw the line at some point where adequate documentation is possible. That ends up being how the manufacturer shipped it to the dealer. If you think about it, there really is no other way that the system could work.<P>As for myself, I don't worry about judged shows and am perfectly happy to keep my period authentic after market accessories installed. Make up your mind as to which game you want to play, then follow that game's rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 maybe this is getting off the topic, and I am not for any modifications, but if the vehicle is to be shown as it would have arrived at the dealer, shouldn't the hub caps be in the trunk (and the rims unscratched)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordee9r (Ron Springstead) Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Hey Green,<BR>Since I guess you are referring to my post about "how the car arrived at the dealer", let me ask you a question. When did dealers begin putting the hubcaps in the trunk instead of installing them on the wheels? <BR>If we are to take your thinking literally, any car that has had an oil change or gas tank filled up would not meet AACA's standards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 maybe it sounded like I was being sarcastic (I wasn't). But when a car arrived at the dealer it would have had the hub caps in the trunk (often wrapped in paper). When the dealer prepped the car they went on, sometimes along with other non-regular production options. But if the rules specify the vehicle should appear as it ARRIVED at the dealer, as opposed to after dealer prep, then it would sound to me like it should look as it came off the carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmj Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Cars are not judged as they left the manufacturer period. While that may be what is suppose to happen it most definately is not they way cars are judged. Case in point. I ordered a 1969 Camaro Z/28 new at the end of 1968. My dad worked for the dealer in new car prep and I bought the car without any "dealer prep". In that area of the country cars were shipped by rail to the recieving dealer. I saw my car come in on the rail car. I didn't pay for dealer prep, but the dealer would not let me take the car untill he had done the dealer prep. Believe me it looked a lot better than it did sitting on the rail car. And yes hubcaps and trim rings were in the trunk. Headers were also available shipped in the trunk . just my 2cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 those are good points and I would agree the dealer prep made a huge difference. Looking at old assembly footage shows whitewalls that are filthy and plastic covering convert. tops. This is not how many people would want to display an antique car. Maybe the wording should be "after the vehicle was prepped by the dealer"...this would make more sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordee9r (Ron Springstead) Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Hey "Green",<BR>I'm not trying to be confrontational, I was merely relating what was relayed to me in my first AACA Judges School. When it was stated "Think about how the car arrived at the dealer", I don't think it was meant to be taken literal. My understanding was that judges should use some common sense while judging. Model T Fords had their chassis' dipped in paint and runs were quite common. I think what is implied is that someone who grinds, sands and paints their chassis to a mirror finish is not representing what the car originally looked like. Just because this mirror finish looks nice, it is not representative of what was available. I think AACA is saying that "over-restoration" should not be rewarded. I think that if everyone restoring a vehicle were to use some common sense, the restoration would become an accurate piece of automotive history. Are you looking for a false beauty queen or an accurate restored vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 The Oldsmobile Club of America judging guidelines stipulate that the car should be presented "as it would have appeared in a dealer showroom". We take this to mean a car that was specially cleaned and detailed for maximum customer impact. Wow factor, if you will, which was important at Oldsmobile in the Wolfram-Metzel-Beltz years.<P>I can see how wording confuses people. As long as the car is presented in best light, and as authentically as possible, there should be no trouble in AACA or marque club judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBerg Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 fordee has done well to address this issue. To simplify some of the conversation, it should simply be viewed as this: Using the guide "How could it have looked when it left the factory to be delivered to the dealer" is the basic key, however, what must also be considered is what was the dealer "authorized by the factory" to do or offer. Certainly to affix the hubcaps to the vehicle. Yes your Volvo or certain other foreign car dealer could install a radio for you at the dealership, however this would have been a "factory authorized" installation of a brand approved for use by the manufacturer. We all realize that many dealers would go to any extreme to satisfy their buyer. Understandable so. Not all of those extremes were "Factory Authorized." Although they may not have been aware that we were going to judge that car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 After Market Radio:<BR>I have a 1962 Morgan, which is a very limited production English sports car, mostly hand built. The cars could be built to owners specs..ie. any colour etc. The factory did not furnish radios but would mount an antenna. The dash has no provision for a radio. As a result owners in the 1960,s would have the dealer mount a radio designed for under dash mounting with speaker in bottom of radio and a switch for positive ground. I found a NOS 1960,s radio and mounted it. Judge at recent Nat'l meet for first junior said he had to deduct for non original factory radio. I asked if radio was removed what would be result. He said there would be deduction for antenna and no radio. Cannot remove antenna because of mounting holes. Is there a solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 morgan man, Seems easy to me. Remove the radio when going for a AACA junior, senior, etc. This now is where a lot of arguments get started on the judging form, since the radio was not factory installed therefore showing the car with a dealer or owner installed radio would technically be incorrect by the rule book.<P>I believe that by showing factory documentation to the team captain on the factory installed body mounted antenna less radio would result in no deductions. You will also need to show him the documentation that the car was also shipped less radio.<P>Remember that most of the judges are just doing there job and would like to see you get the award. I am sure there are other opinions on this, just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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