critterpainter Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 I was over at a friends house sun aft helping him on his 22 6cyl fierce sparrow, and counted at least 6 cracked valve seats some with cracks extending to the cylinder. Are Pierce Arrows known for this habit, or is my friend just "lucky"? Also if they do crack, do the cracks "grow" under normal driving conditions to the point they leak water (or combustion)? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Sounds like she was ridden hard and put away wet more than once. Of course I hear even in California there are places it can get cold enough to freeze water in a uncared for block. <P>You didn't mention if they were mostly exhaust valve seats or intakes to. If they are mostly exhaust it may have been driven with low coolant enough to overheat the block to the cracking point. The technology exists to weld this kind of damage and install replacement seats but it won't be cheap.<BR>I have had some luck with sealing water jacket cracks in a 1920 Mercer L head with Lock-tite weld penetrant compounds but a valve seat is beyond a cure in a bottle.<BR>Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 I suspect that your friend has a "36" with the famed dual valve 6, the last hurrah of the T head engine with 4 valves and 2 plugs per cylinder, 9 main bearings and the world's trickiest distributor to adjust. <BR>What I recall from talking to an oldtimer who had one, the valves are extremely close to the cylinder walls and they are also at an angle in the block and slope toward the piston, whether this may contribute toward wall casting thinness in that area he didn't say but I know he had seats installed for the exhaust valves.<BR>He is no longer with us otherwise I would pick his brain about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 If I remember correctly the cast iron cyl block is mounted on an aluminum crankcase so it should remove fairly simply.<BR>He's not gonna want to hear this but have it magnafluxed, otherwise you are fumbling in the dark and you don't want to screw up a large, prestigious and valuable car like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J.Heizmann Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Go with what L I stellite suggested about magnafluxing the cracks. It is by far the most economical as compared to full x-ray.<P>Casting cracks are a shot in the dark. Depending on the wall thickness, they could be almost superficial and last forever, on the other hand, they could be ready to break through. The distance from the crack to a heavier section would offer more support for the cracked area to last longer, but, who wants to gamble. <P>My vote is hands down to get the magnaflux, especially on such a prestigous vehicle. In our foundries, we have hand-held units that could check this fairly resonable and quickly. That way you would have data to go forward and see how they could be repaired.<P>Call around to test labs, or, metallurgical services in your area.<P>Regards, Peter J. <P>[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Peter J Heizmann ]<p>[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Peter J Heizmann ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 L.I.Stellite, Is the fellow out on the Island that made the V16 Chevy still repairing cast iron items? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 Do you mean Superweld in farmingdale?<BR>Lester held him in high esteem.<BR>He magnafluxed AND preheated iron castings before welding with a nickel rod, came out perfect every time.<BR>11 Gazza Blvd. Farmingdale NY.<BR>631-694-7989<BR>Still there according to the current yellow pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 OK Bob, now that you have thrown out the teaser, tell us about this V16 Chevy ~ hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critterpainter Posted April 24, 2002 Author Share Posted April 24, 2002 OK can someone recomend a good welding shop on the left coast??? If we are going to go ahead and fix it we want to use a shop that is known for their quality. <BR>By the way, is the block symetrical? Sittiing in the car it looks like it could be bolted on the crankcase either way <BR> Oh well, I guess we will "tackle " the Romer while waiting on the Fierce Sparrow....Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1913Moline Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 I would highly suggest you contact Eric Rosenau in Ramona California. Eric runs a restoration shop which specializes in Pierce cars- particularly earlier models.<P>The problem you describe is not uncommon and Eric can suggest the best solution to resolve. These are great cars, but not too tolerant of overheating or hard running with lean mixtures. The Series 32 and 33's were more "tender" than the Series 36. <P>Good luck with your project.<P>Greg<P>PS I think your 6 cylinder would have 7 main bearings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 you are correct! I added 2 more bearings.<BR>Too much merlot with the pasta tonite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Deering Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 Bill, <P> There is this hemi dragster guy down here in S.B. that does repairs on severely damaged blocks. Contact me for his telephone no. if you or John want to talk to him.<P> Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critterpainter Posted April 24, 2002 Author Share Posted April 24, 2002 Yes, the Pierce does have 4 valves per cyl and most of the cracks are in exhaust seats.<BR> The car was in the hands of a collector that passed away several years ago, and had been sitting for YEARS. The owners family does not know much of the history, and we are just trying to get it back on the road saftley.<BR>Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J.Heizmann Posted April 24, 2002 Share Posted April 24, 2002 Critterpainter...I had a few additional thoughts concerning the magnaflux. Looks like you are getting good advice concerning sources on the left coast.<P>However, if you wind up going the magnaflux route to check the severity of the cracks, put the blue dye penetrant onto the cracked area and let it sit overnight, then, spray the magnaflux on for the reading the next day. This will give you a better reading.<P>Regards,<P>Peter J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critterpainter Posted April 25, 2002 Author Share Posted April 25, 2002 Thanks for all the input and Tom...John said he would give you a call tonight or tomorrow night<BR> Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 critterpainter, Is the Romer a Rochester-Duesenberg powered version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Howard, The V16 Chevy was besigned and built by the owner of Superweld on Long Island. Before I go any futher I'd like to say anyone with an antique car would do well to have him repair castings. He had a great display at the HCCA swap meet years ag in Rhinebeck, N.Y. I think the V16 starded as something neat to do, Two Chevy V8 blocks were machined and welded together, as were the heads. It looked like a factory product when done. The only thing that looked odd to me was the distributor, it was too large. There was a running buildup feature in Street Rodder Magazine. I have a copy somewere( I have EVERY magazine I've bought since my first, July Hot Rod 1961)once I find it I'll update this with more facts. The engine was put in a fiberglass 1937 Ford coupe bodied rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critterpainter Posted April 26, 2002 Author Share Posted April 26, 2002 RE the Romer...of course it is not the the Duesenberg powered one...then it would be worth something It has the continental engine in it But its still cute in an ugly way <BR>Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 I would look for a shop that will stitch the cracks instead of welding. Welding can put more stresses into the casting and cause more future problems. <A HREF="http://www.locknstitch.com/Metal_Stitching.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.locknstitch.com/Metal_Stitching.htm</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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