Exhaust questions

[Martin Monsjou]

Hi,

I have Buick Riviera 1963 running on LPG and this year it will need new exhausts because the current ones won't live long anymore. The LPG in relation to the exhaust is that the engine will get hotter and so the exhausts. The current aren't original but they have a good sound. I would discribe it as very silent, which I prefer. To give you a impression some pictures.

Question 1

As you can see there is a connection between the two pipes, balance pipe is the correct name for it I think. Original there is no such pipe. Is it usefull or not? If yes, is this the most preferable location?

Question 2

There are now two mufflers, one under each side of the front seats. Because they are located there, I think it contributes to the low sound which, as state earlier, I like. Besides this, the original muffler is located at the back off the car and will collect more condence because it is less heated.

Is my current configuration a good one?

Question 3

If the current configuration is OK, I think to make the pipes of rustfree material because of it's unique form and the muffles can be off plain steel to cut the cost. The car will only drive on dry days and is stored in a garage. Sounds this logical?

Question 4

Should I go for original w or w/o balance pipe?

Thanks in advance for any reply. It's much appreciated!

Edited February 19, 2015 by Martin Monsjou (see edit history)

[RivNut]

The balance pipe ( X or H ) in the muscle vernacular, is good for sound and balancing exhaust pulse. You're correct that mufflers closer to the engine won't burn out as quickly due to condensation. The only trade off is that the thickness of the muffler under the seats might lead to more heat in the passenger compartment. Too bad the balance pipe welds both sides together. It could be just as effective with a couple of slip fittings and clamps.

Ed

[JZRIV]

I would not reinstall a crossover. Not necessary. Crossover pipes in H or X configuration seem more common on higher revving shorter stroke engines. Probably can be debated till cows come home and admit I am no expert on that topic.

I'd go with the OEM exhaust arrangement moving muffler back to the rear. If you were doing engine HP modifications you would take a different approach.

Some go with aluminized pipe while other go with stainless. For the way your car is used aluminized can last more than 20 years easily. It might rust on the exterior here and there but shouldn't rust through. Stainless stays prettier cosmetically if that is important to you. I've never installed a stainless system.

[60FlatTop]

I bought an original exhaust system from Monroe Muffler in 1978. Around 1985 the bottom of the muffler leaked and since they no longer produced the muffler they gave me a refund of the original price. I bought two original mufflers from old stock suppliers with the money. One went on the car. I used the second one in 1994 and replaced the front pipes because the ends were rotted at the clamps. Five years ago the 1994 muffler leaked and I went for a pair of Hushpowers and modified things from the kick up to the exit.

I expect the front pipes to hold up another 10 years and I stashed away a set of NOS tailpipes and an NOS muffler. One more set of front pipes should get me through thr first 75 years of ownership. How long were you looking for yours to last?

Bernie

[steelman]

Martin, I had an exhaust similar to yours with the front mounted mufflers and changed it. Too much heat on the floor as Ed states. I went with a single crossflow from Flowmaster in the stock location behind the axle. This is very quiet for a performance muffler. Almost too quiet for me. This is a dual in, dual out style that works well in these cars. I am very happy with this arrangement.

Edited February 19, 2015 by steelman (see edit history)

[Martin Monsjou]

Thank you all for your information,

Ed, your info about the balance pipe interest me (good for sound and balancing exhaust pulse).

Your advice about the construction will be considered. Is a flexibele pipe an option?

JZRIV, I think you are right about using aluminisized pipes in my situation. I have to get in contact with Waldron for costs including shippingcostst. Plus, somehowe I want to know the way it sounds.

Bernie, I can not look into the future but my guess is that I won't sell this car in the near future.

The way my car is used by me,it won't have a hard time I hope...

Steelman, I am very interested in your exhaust system. It is silent! I would like to hear the sound.

So, again, I am very greatfull to you all. Have to do some research now about the different options and sounds. I have to visit some shops in The Netherlands.

Best regards,

[steelman]

Thank you all for your information,

Steelman, I am very interested in your exhaust system. It is silent! I would like to hear the sound.

It is not silent, but is not loud at all. My pickup truck is louder. I edited my post. This was a Flowmaster, not Magna Flow. On the Flowmaster site, you used to be able to hear each series of muffler. This is a 50 series. I looked and didn't see that option now, but it is quieter than advertised. I am not sure about posting a video with sound on here. Never did it. If it warms up and I get the car out this weekend, I will try to do one with sound. I know it seems louder in the garage than it does outside.

[Martin Monsjou]

Hi Steve,

When I search on this site http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/?page_id=10995 they go back for Buick Riviera till 1964.

is it compatible to 1963?

[60FlatTop]

Here is the sound of a stock 425 with original equipment front pipes, resonator eliminator pipes, a 2 1/2" equalizer in place of the transverse muffler, and two 2" Flowmaster Hushpower's in place of the tail pipes:

http://brockportinternational.com/xjs/Dir5/Riviera/64riviera.mp3

The car was 14 years old and I was 30 when I bought it. I am planning another 40 years with it. My health is good and I am at a much lower risk of being shot than I was a few decades ago. I can plan.

Bernie

[1965rivgs]

Hi,

I have Buick Riviera 1963 running on LPG and this year it will need new exhausts because the current ones won't live long anymore. The LPG in relation to the exhaust is that the engine will get hotter and so the exhausts. The current aren't original but they have a good sound. I would discribe it as very silent, which I prefer. To give you a impression some pictures.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]295801[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]295802[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]295803[/ATTACH]

Question 1

As you can see there is a connection between the two pipes, balance pipe is the correct name for it I think. Original there is no such pipe. Is it usefull or not? If yes, is this the most preferable location?

Question 2

There are now two mufflers, one under each side of the front seats. Because they are located there, I think it contributes to the low sound which, as state earlier, I like. Besides this, the original muffler is located at the back off the car and will collect more condence because it is less heated.

Is my current configuration a good one?

Question 3

If the current configuration is OK, I think to make the pipes of rustfree material because of it's unique form and the muffles can be off plain steel to cut the cost. The car will only drive on dry days and is stored in a garage. Sounds this logical?

Question 4

Should I go for original w or w/o balance pipe?

Thanks in advance for any reply. It's much appreciated!

When you eliminated the stock muffler you also eliminated the balance pipe between the left and right sides. Because the stock muffler combines right and left sides it acts as a balance pipe and muffles or blends the right and left side pulsations. The original system is a great system except for the condensation factor-as the exhaust cools running toward the rear of the car the water in the combustion product has a tendency to fall out of suspension and collects in the resonators and muffler. If you use a good stainless product this drawback can be eliminated and you will have all the benefits of the original and thoughtfully designed system.

Tom Mooney

[RivNut]

I've added some comments in the body of your text.

Thank you all for your information,

Ed, your info about the balance pipe interest me (good for sound and balancing exhaust pulse).

Your advice about the construction will be considered. Is a flexibele pipe an option?

I don't think that I meant that you should keep it, I was just trying to describe the cross pipes functions. If I were you, I'd go back to something with a stock location muffler. The '63 - '65 mufflers are all the same. Another option it to put a small 'turbo' type muffler in line where the factory put the resonators. Most resonators have been removed the first time the system had to be replaced. This would put your mufflers farther back for heat control but unless you run a crossflow muffler as well, you'll have straight duals. Running straight dual is were an X or H pipe comes into play for balancing pulses. The "water heater" cross flow muffler in the stock location basically does the same thing. If you're running both, an X pipe and crossflow, you're probably just spending money you don't need to spend. If you were to keep it, I'd think you'd want short pipes on each side with a connecting pipe that would slip fit the two sides together.

JZRIV, I think you are right about using aluminisized pipes in my situation. I have to get in contact with Waldron for costs including shippingcostst. Plus, somehowe I want to know the way it sounds.

Bernie, I can not look into the future but my guess is that I won't sell this car in the near future.

The way my car is used by me,it won't have a hard time I hope...

Steelman, I am very interested in your exhaust system. It is silent! I would like to hear the sound.

So, again, I am very greatfull to you all. Have to do some research now about the different options and sounds. I have to visit some shops in The Netherlands.

Best regards,

[steelman]

Hi Steve,

When I search on this site http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/?page_id=10995 they go back for Buick Riviera till 1964.

is it compatible to 1963?

63 and 64 are the same exhaust. The one I purchased is actually for a Camaro or Firebird from the mid 90s. All I purchased was a muffler from Summit. The rest was custom bent. There is only one cross flow on the Flowmaster site with dual in, dual out in the 50 series. That is the one I used.

http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/?page_id=451&partno=524554

Edited February 20, 2015 by steelman
added link (see edit history)

[Martin Monsjou]

Hi there,

When soaking all your good information the outcome will be something like handmade pipes and one stainless muffler in the back which would also acts as a balance pipe. I am not sure what the function of resonator is. Originaly they are located on each side. Is it a kind of extra muffler?

Thanks Bernie for the great sound exemple. Hearing it on my soundsystem makes it overwhelming.

[Martin Monsjou]

Hi there,

Here a update. Last week a new handmade exhaustsystem. Simple and solid!

This year the Riviera is sitting on new tires, got 4 new wheelbrakecilinders and this exhaust was the latest thing so far.

I am happy with it!

Martin

[slosteve]

And without an X or H pipe!

[Martin Monsjou]

Hi Steve,

Indeed no balance pipe. I was told that the way the balance pipewas was made, I would't have the maximum benefit. The best form would be a X-pipe., because the two pipes are directly connected. This is difficult to construct for a Riviera. The new exhaust is more quiet inside and outside the car then the older one. It has a lower sound. If the engine is running I experience a bit more vibrations. I like the way the pipes are cut at the end.

Thanks for your reply.

Martin