Mounting Tires

[John N. Packard]

Now I have five freshly painted rims. How do I mount the tires without messing them up?<P>jnp

[The Old Guy]

I use a BIG rubber hammer ,and beat them on. It wont mark the rim and they go on quite easily

[oldford]

John, see if you can mount them from the back side of the rim. If you do scratch the rim, touch-up paint is less likely to be seen on the inside.

[Guest BillP]

From the household cleaner section in the supermarket, get a bottle of Murphy Oil Soap. Use it straight, undiluted and smear an amount on each bead of the tire. Lay an old blanket or other thick cloth on the floor of the garage. Put the wheel on the pad and stand before it, bracing it from moving by propping the toes of your boots on the edge nearest you. Hold the lubed tire with your hands on the treads about waist high in front of you. With a swift downward movement, swing the tire down to the wheel, catching the low-side bead on the wheel, If you've been either skillful or lucky, or both, the first bead of the tire will be nearly on the wheel. Slip it home with a few whacks with the rubber hammer. If you're using tubes, put one in now, being always careful not to pinch it. Now drop the 'installed' bead into the recessed center of the wheel and push a section of the top bead below the top of the rim. Walk it around with your feet, pounding where necessary, making sure that both sections of the beads that are within the wheel rims are down in the recessed center of the wheel. This gives clearance for the rest of the tire to slide over the rim. <BR>That's the home method. If you don't want to do that, go to a tire garage that has a finger-type mounting machine for alloy wheels. They spread the tire out and mount it without touching the rim.

[D Binger]

John,<P>I hope you don't do the hammer thing.<P>Dan

[novaman]

I'm not sure what rims you have but if they are non spoked rims you can take them to a tire shop if the place has the tire machine for puting tires on aluminum rims. This machine has like a talbe you put the rim on and it clamps it from the back side only in four spots, from the inside. then the arm that guides the tire on hoovers above the rim as the table turns. This machine is made to put the tires on these new rims that are aluminum and have a clear coat paint.

[impala]

I've found the safest way not to mar the paint is to have the tires mounted after you prep and primer the wheels but before you paint them. Just don't put air in the tires until you're done with the painting and detailing. It's very easy to protect the tires from overspray since the beads are collapsed. Might sound like a strange way to do it but it works nicely and is not much more trouble.<BR>impala

[Guest]

Hey, BillP, where did you learn that method? That's one we professionals don't like to slip out. People get a little peeved when they see you slamming their new tire on the rim and then charge them for something "that only took 2 seconds." That's why we usually do it when no one's around. Takes a little practice, though. Most guys aim is slightly off or they don't swing the tire down hard enough. Then they're jumping around when they get hit in the shins! hehehe!

[Guest BillP]

Alan-<BR>The disclaimer that comes to mind when fooling around with old cars is the same one the state uses when they advertise their lottery: 'Please play responsibly'. Although in the state's case, I wonder at their sincerity, but that's another story. <P>I thought about mentioning danger to shins but decided that was in the category of "Experience is the best teacher".

[John N. Packard]

Okay, I've got my Murphy's Oil Soap. Lathered up both beads after retrieving the tires from the attic. The first rim slipped right in with little difficulty. Next comes the tube...oops! Where are the tubes? Can't find them anywhere. Must not have purchased any. Just sent an Internet order to Coker for five. Continued in 48 hours!<P>jnp

[Rick Hoover]

John,<P>Are you aware that those tires you bought, being the 800X15's for either the '54 or the '56 Packard are tubless tires and you "could" use them that way if you wanted to. The rims will accept being tubless. It would save you $52.00 plus shipping for the four tubes. And, this is not to say that putting tubes in them is a bad idea. <P>Rick

[John N. Packard]

Rick,<BR> Yes I am; however my experience has been that using tubes is more reliable. When I have run tubeless on these rims I tend to have to add air more frequently for some reason. May just be my imagination! Also, I have had difficulty finding the right valve stem for the large hole. I can find plenty of small diameter stems but few of the larger ones. That may be the clue to the leak down!<BR>jnp

[Guest BillP]

In my experience, Rick is right about going tubeless. I've had 7.00-16 tubeless tires on one of my LaSalles with stock, rivetted wheels for about ten years.<BR> <BR>Initially, one lost air slowly. I broke it down and applied a mild sealant to the beads and it's been fine since. <P>If you are losing air, a way to test is mix up a dilute solution of dish wash liquid and pour it over the tire. Best to have the tire laying down so you can pool the soap into the bead/rim area. Look for bubbles.<BR> <BR>The valves stems you may need are the two-piece variety for trucks and tractors. They have a large diameter stem and a threaded retaining collar. The whole thing is gasketted with rubber. Get them at your local rural tire shop, not the downtown yuppie place. The valve stems are probably not show legal if you're into judging, but they'll get you down the road.

[Rick Hoover]

Now I'm really curious. Bill, are you sure that those 700X16's were tubless? That would be a new one on me. Obviously, it worked for you either way with that time period.<BR> Many or most of the late 40's and early 50's riveted rims using 15" tires will accept and hold air with no problems using a tubless tire as they are reproduced today, however that riveted section is were the light leakage will come to play should it happen. It's a hit and miss item. <P>John, for future info, should you ever need the proper tubless stem for those rims, just go to your local NAPA store. Their part number for a 4 pack is #90-415 for the .625" Dia. with a 1 1/4" long stem. The 2" long stem in the same Dia. is # 90-425. Remember that this is the 4 pack number. Some NAPA stores will stock these in bulk and therefore use another part number for the same stem. I fully understand your wanting to run the tubes. If they leaked down before on those rims, they'll do it again.<P>Rick

[Guest BillP]

Rick <BR>These are General GLT 6 ply load rating C black-wall tube-type tires. <BR>Without the tubes. <P>O.E. size on the car is 6.50x16; these are larger and heavier-duty as the car is a tour car. <P>The tires have an embossed or molded-in diamond pattern on the side wall which looks sort of vintage. Also the size is shown as 7.00 - 16LT, the 'LT' thought by many to stand for 'light truck', but in this case, of course, it refers to 'LaSalle Tire'.

[Rick Hoover]

Now I understand Bill! I surely wasn't doubting your knowing what you have and own, but I did know that all 16" Vintage tires from Kelsey, Coker, ect. were tube type. I told you I was curious.<P>I thought also, that LT meant LaSalle Tire. (Or was that Lincoln?)

[Guest]

I don't know if this would work for you, but many guys use what they call a bag technique on replacing the tires on a model A. Not for sure just how it goes, but they essentially place a slick plastic garbage bag onto the metal rim before mounting the tire. Apparently it slips over without any real problems and they remove the bag then before inflating the mounted tire. Someone may know more about the specifics and explaining it in better detail , but this technique was given to me when I had to fix a flat recently.<P>Huey

[Guest]

Just had the tires mounted for my 48 this weekend and was worried about the same thing. The place I go to services truck tires and his machine has four arms that lock the rim from the underside. Then an arm comes down that rests on the edge of the rim but is then stepped down toward the outer edge of the tire. The machine moves the rim so the lower edge of the arm pushes the tire below the beading to install. The guy set the arm so that it was just above the edge of the rim so it wouldn't scratch and installed the tires. Sure enough, not a mark on the rim. And yes, I go to a truck facility because they actually know how to install tube tires. Had a bad experience once with a regular car tire guy.

[Guest]

John, Rick is correct, there are two sizes of valve stems, one thinner and one thicker. You do need the thicker ones and most good tire shops would have them. They're not used as much any more, but they're still available. As for the leak when running tubeless, was that before you painted the wheels? Most slow leaks are from the bead not being cleaned well enough. The rim needs to have all rust removed where the tire bead seats and the tire bead must also be free of rust globs, dirt, etc. Then apply a liberal coating of tire sealant. Don't worry, it washes off easily. <P>When checking for leaks, put your soap solution in a spray bottle and spray it on. You will use a lot less and when it finds the leak, it bubbles up faster. <P>Chris, almost all tire machines used today are of the type you described. Some wheels were what they called "hubless" and did not have a center hole. Therefore, they could not be held down the conventional way as the old machines held them. Plus aluminum wheels cannot have anything dragging on the surface, as stated earlier, or it will mar the face. <P>My personal preference; if you don't need a tube, don't use them. They can be more of a hassle than a benefit.

[John N. Packard]

Well, here's my final report. BillP & Alan: I'm afraid I haven't got the technique right. After all the slamming of tires from waist high onto the rim, I still haven't succeeded in mounting any! Perhaps I need to use more of the Murphy's oil soap? I've got so much slathered around now that I can barely maintain my footing!<BR>Thanks to Impala for his suggestion. I still need tire irons, so I wrapped the blade with electrical tape, lathered the beads with soap and the tires went on the rims quite easily. Covered the tire and valve stem after installing the tubes and shot another coat of laquer on the rims. They look great! The tires I removed were 8.20:15; these are 8.00:15 and the ride is significantly improved. Yes, I static balanced them before installation on the car. You know, this was hard work! Maybe I should have gone to the tire shoppe!<BR>jnp

[Guest]

Good to hear about your tire success. Now the question is should I tell you that the truck guy who does mine charged me $15 to mount and balance all 4 tires? Oh yeah, and a cup of coffee. He thinks old cars are really cool and probably would have done it for nothing if I didn't press the issue. Made me realize our hobby has a lot of friends out there willing to help us out.

[Guest]

John, that was my point. Take them to a reputable tire shop and have them mounted. Ask them if they can keep from nicking or scratching the rim. Good shops will tell you if they can or can't. Cost is usually a minimum. You may have to wait a little, sometimes guys want to take their time to do them right. Slamming them on takes practice. Wider tires are much easier. Narrower tires takes more shoulder and tricep development. If you want to learn the technique, practice on modern iron, like the '60s and '70s steel wheels. Usually you still have to "tire iron" the outer bead on, but your bars are contacting the bottom side of the bead seat.

[Chacheska]

I bought two tire spoons and have mounted my tires that way without any Murphy's or any other lubricant although that would make it a little less labor intensive I'm sure.