Electrical Fire on '58 Super

[bhclark]

I finally picked up the '58 Super from the "restoration" shop Wednesday. They finished with it about a month ago, but the insurance company balked at the finished bill and it's taken that long to get them to send 2 additional checks to cover the cost. It's still not done.

Short list of what I've found wrong so far:

-Left turn signal doesn't work -REAR FIXED, front still doesn't work. Replaced bulb and check connections, no luck.

-Left brake light doesn't work -FIXED

-interior turn indicators don't work. I can hear them, the right one clicks much faster than the left.

-red lens for high beam indicator is missing

-new, NOS amp gauge, sourced by me because they couldn't find one, jumps around and pegs way right at high speed. The old one moved rather gingerly and never went past C or D.

-radio doesn't work. It mush have been fried by the electrical damage, but he never mentioned it. (sure would have been easier for me to get it rebuilt while dash was apart)

-parking brake light indicator doesn't work and is loose in the dash. (it isn't even hooked up to anything)- light FIXED, still loose.

-cardboard kickpanel on passenger side roughed up and retainer clips missing.

-There is a relay just to the left of the brake pedal that isn't hooked up to anything. Still trying to figure out what it is for. photo attached.

-Car was absolutely filthy. 5 months of shop dust on it. Is this normal? I would be ashamed to return a car with 5 months of dust all over it and empty pop bottles in it.

-brake pedal goes to the floor, but brakes do work. I drove it home. They told me it was like that when it came in. Not that I remember. They did inspect and "said" they bled the brakes after I threw a fit. They said there is a wheel cylinder leaking. I checked all wheel cylinders (good), cleaned and adjusted brakes. Will rebleed them when I have time and assistance.

-Condenser not hooked up to VR. FIXED

-A broken fuse was installed in the fuse box. FIXED

-Shift indicator is missing

-I was charged for new battery cables and starter wiring that weren't installed. They also list a new ignition switch, but I'm still using the old key??? I'll have to look closer at the dimmer switch to see if it is new or old....They either left parts on the shelf without using them or billed them without buying them.....

-I told him to use YNZ for the harness, but he went with GM obsolete I believe. I think YNZ would have had a more authentic looking harness with a cloth cover, right?

I sent it in for "electrical fire repair". All they did was the wiring harness. I guess this is my fault for not being clear, but I expected to get it back with all issues from the fire fixed, including replacing the firewall insulation that was damaged and cleaning up the extinguisher mess. That was a bear to do, but would have been much easier with all of the electrical components out of the way.

I paid and got my car out of there. I am not sending it back to them and will not recommend them to anyone. I doubt I can get another penny from the insurance company either to fix these remaining issues.

I noticed a new issue today. The generator was shot, copper from the armature had been ripped loose. I supplied him a rebuilt unit from my '59, told him to swap the end plates and install it. Instead, he put the armature in the old case and reinstalled that. The generator gets hot. Is that supposed to happen? I measured it at over 150 degrees on the case today. That concerns me.

Overall, this repair cost about twice what I would have expected (so glad for insurance), mostly due to what looks like about a 50%+ markup on the parts.

The shop also does maintenance on imports....My mostly original '58 Buick was apparently not very important next to $100K Bentleys.

I wish Bernie, Mike Middleton or Adam Martin were closer......

Just looking at the '58 makes me bitter now, It might be going on the block just to put the whole situation behind me, plus, I'll be changing insurance companies when my policy is up due to the fight I had to put up to get full payment made.

Attached are photos of the new wiring, after I did cleanup, the damaged firewall insulation, and the relay that isn't connected to anything.

What is the relay for and where do it's 2 wires go?

Has anyone used the firewall pads from CARS?

Should the generator case get hot? (155 degrees?)

UGH. I'm bitter.

Doesn't look like it's going to make the first carshow of the season this Sunday.

Edited April 25, 2014 by bhclark (see edit history)

[buick5563]

Sorry for the whole incident, Brian. I wish you were closer, as well.

The firewall pads are made by www.quietride.com. Might want to call and see if they are any cheaper. They fit very well and are well made. They are designed to be installed before the wiring is in, but I was able to carefully cut around some of the top of the one I installed in my Special where nobody can see anyway. I'm really sorry those guys messed it up so badly...

[JohnD1956]

It's sad all around, but especially so since you now have bitter feelings for the car. I hope you can get past that and keep on the road to refresh this sweetheart car. That shop sucks. That's not yours or the car's fault.

[bhclark]

To be clear, the shop didn't mess up the firewall pad, it was on fire. It was the last thing I put out....it was glowing red and when I hit it with the extinguisher, it just disappeared. They did however, lose a decent piece of the cardboard cover that I could have used to repair this one.

Thanks for the info Mike...I'll check it out.

The generator is the thing I'm concerned about most before I can drive it any distance. Should the case get that hot? 150+? I did drive it home about 15 miles without incident.

[60FlatTop]

My son is a guitar player and does warehouse work. During the winter his Park Ave had a battery failure. He hooked up my 10 amp charger to his car set for six volts. I thought he blew the charger but I used it last week and it is OK.

This shop that had the $100,000 Bentley's...... Bentley makes a piano and they guy blew his tester? That wasn't a music shop trying to fix cars was it?

Odd collections of occurrences.

Bernie

[old-tank]

The generator is the thing I'm concerned about most before I can drive it any distance. Should the case get that hot? 150+? I did drive it home about 15 miles without incident.

.

The generator will get that hot if charging a depleted battery or high electrical load, or if run long enough will match engine temperature. What is the ammeter showing? A bad voltage regulator had one of mine 'smokin' hot' and was turning after the engine was turned off...

[bhclark]

Thanks. I pulled my '59 out of storage tonight. The generator read 135 after a 10 mile drive home. Not as hot as the '58, but seems in the range.

Can anyone tell me what the relay in this picture is for?

[buick5563]

I'm guessing windows.

[Guest 53 Roady]

I am new to this thread but some lessons for the rest of us come to mind. 1} I need to get a new fire extinguisher. 2}Then disconnect switches for the main battery terminal of each car. And then? 3}How about a fusible link at the junction block on the way to the ammeter? The wire is #10. What ampacity would this need to be for the 12 volt 53? And another link at the starter relay? I believe the windows have a circuit breaker.

Pat

Edited April 27, 2014 by 53 Roady (see edit history)

[Caballero2]

Thanks. I pulled my '59 out of storage tonight. The generator read 135 after a 10 mile drive home. Not as hot as the '58, but seems in the range.

Can anyone tell me what the relay in this picture is for?

That is a "Speed Minder" buzzer. - Dan

[bhclark]

Thanks Dan! I'll wire it up as such. Meanwhile, the parking brake indicator light has stopped working again.....argh.

Went ahead and drove the '58 and the '59 to the car show about 12 miles away today. Both ran great and the '59 picked up a trophy from a field of 130 cars.

The generator on the '59 was only 130 degrees when we got home with an engine temp of about 160. The '58's generator was 195 with an engine temp of 185.

I am done driving this car until I can further test the generator output. I'll see if I can find a local shop that can test it. I know there is one a town away, but it may have to wait until after we get back from vacation in mid-May.

A quick search of Ebay turned up several rebuilt '59 generators, but no '58s. Same basic model, but different end brackets. The '59 hangs while the '58 is supported from below.

[60FlatTop]

A few comments like your generator have come up on this forum that have newed my interest in buying a Megger, or Mega Ohmmeter. It is one of those shop tools that is nice to have but was always expensive in the past. Recently I have seen then at cheap prices on Ebay.

They test the insulation value of electrical parts by creating a low amperage flow of about 500 volts while measuring the resistance.

In your case the insulation of the windings maybe be slightly damaged and causing the increased temperature. I think I might buy one to have on hand. Check around to see if a local electrical shop can do that test.

A second test requires finding a real geek. Have your generator tested with an oscilloscope. Sometimes they are part of those rollaround diagnostic machines or a MAC or Snap-On hand held tool. The scope will show you the sine wave and the commutator activity. It is another way to look at the breakdown of the field coils. An electronics guy won't really care about make, model, or specs. He will see the problem.

Bernie

Edited April 28, 2014 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)