rear axel 1910 tourer

[gilletman]

Hello, I'm looking for drawings of the build up of a rear axel for a 1910 oakland. or opther car with simular construction. Mainley i want to find out wat the original bearings used are. there must be something to regulate or adjust sideways play. did they use conical bearings or presurebearings??? all info welcome. The original parts bearings had been replaced on my car, and it does not work as it should.. Thanks for al replays. gillet.man@live.be

[motoringicons]

I am not sure about the particular rear end that you are referring to, but many early rear ends used thrust washers to control the sideways (in or out) play. Typically, these thrust washers were bronze (early cars had babbitt) and they were ground so that the rotating assembly would rotate freely but not move "in or out" when the axle ends were pulled. Of course there are also the axle bearings (some cars used one on the outside and some cars used an inner bearing as well) that keep the axle in alignment and prevent it from moving upwards or downwards. A lot of early cars used a Hyatt style, long roller bearing for this.

[gilletman]

I am not sure about the particular rear end that you are referring to, but many early rear ends used thrust washers to control the sideways (in or out) play. Typically, these thrust washers were bronze (early cars had babbitt) and they were ground so that the rotating assembly would rotate freely but not move "in or out" when the axle ends were pulled. Of course there are also the axle bearings (some cars used one on the outside and some cars used an inner bearing as well) that keep the axle in alignment and prevent it from moving upwards or downwards. A lot of early cars used a Hyatt style, long roller bearing for this.

Thanks for this verry useful info. Hyat bearings are used but no bronze thrust washers. possible that is the problem. Since the bearings are worn out, im thinking of replacing them. (with normal bearings) i found some pictures on a ford model t forum, but can not make out exactly how its put together. thanks verry much for the replay.

[gilletman]

1912 Ford Model T Rear axle rebuild picture | SuperMotors.net the hyat bearing on this picture seems to have a lot of play is tha normal?

[nickelroadster]

I suspect that the 1910 Oakland used a Weston-mott rerar end (WM owned by GM). They are very similar to model T rear ends but are slightly different. They have Hyatt roller bearings and separate thrust bearings. They do not have a way to adjust them from the outside. In order to adjust the play in the rear end, I made a number of .02" shims to adjust the rear end play. The rear end housing has a larger side and a smaller side. I would put a shim in, install the rear end and attach the torque tube. I would then check the play and do it again until the play was good. Only then did I put shims in the other side and put the rear end housing completely together. I did this three or four years ago and posted it in the technical section. I don't remember the title but if you search my posts, you should be able to find it. Lots of pictures.

[nickelroadster]

A quick update. My previous post in the techniical section was April 14, 2009 and was titled " A failure to proceed or what I did this Easter weekend". If you have any questions feel free to ask. I see that I did not have a picture of the thrust bearings in my posts. If you would like one, let me know.

[gilletman]

A quick update. My previous post in the techniical section was April 14, 2009 and was titled " A failure to proceed or what I did this Easter weekend". If you have any questions feel free to ask. I see that I did not have a picture of the thrust bearings in my posts. If you would like one, let me know.

Thanks nickelroadster, yes a picture of the thrust bearings would be more than welcome, since there were none mounted in my axel and need to reproduce them. i wil try to find you previous post.Do you own a 1910 Oakland? Mayb in the future i wil have other items (hope not) and could contact you about it. my private mail gillet.man@live.be Kind regards.

[Marty Roth]

gilletman,

Have you looked into joining the Oakland Owners Club, Inc. ??

We have some of the best Oakland technicians anywhere.

I'm going to PM or Email you a contact

[nickelroadster]

Gilletman,

No I don't have an Oakland but I have a 15 Oldsmobile. I also have two other Weston-Mott rear ends, one to a mid teens Buick and one to an early teens car of some sort. I have had my rear end all apart as you can see from the noted post. Go to the little advanced search at the top of the page and put the info in and you will get to it. I am assuming that you have the Hyatt roller bearing which are first on the rear end differential and handle the radial forces. Though not made by the same people, the rear end looks almost identical to a Model T. The thrust bearings are about the same diameter as the Hyatts but obviously have the ball bearings on the end. I am pretty sure I have some loose thrust bearings with one of the rear ends but I have to go to my storage unit to retrieve them. I will do that tomorrow as I expect that several people will know what they look like but few will have them off of the car. They are not shown in the ModelT rebuild that you reference but I have seen some pictures that showed a T rear end with the same kind of thrust bearings. There is also a very similar type of thrust bearing in the torque tube behind the pinion gear. It should be easy for you to remove that gear and get to the thrust bearing.

[nickelroadster]

Gilletman,

Sorry. I do not seem to be able to find any of the thrust bearings to show you a picture of. Why don't you show us some pictures of what you do have. I will try to describe what is supposed to be there as well as I can.

The picture of the rear end shows a Hyatt roller bearing that sits on the differential bushing. There is on shim or washer that goes between the Hyatt and the differential. If other shims are needed to adjust rear end play , they go on the outer side of the Hyatt. The thrust bearing fits into the other case half on the other side of the shims and Hyatt bearing. Shims that go on the outside of the Hyatt do not have as big a hole as the ones in the lower right of the picture as they are meant to nest over the axle but not over the bushing on the differential as the ones on the lower left do. The rough shaped shims on the top of the picture were some that were probably put in the car about fifty years ago and were not done well. The thrust bearings are solid on one side and show the balls on the other. The sides with the balls go in the side of the differential case. In order to set the play of the rear end, you need to guess the number of shims needed on the right side, put the differential into the right side of the case, bolt the torque tube onto the right side and check the rear end play. This needs to be done as many times as is necessary to get the play right. When you have gotten the play on the right side set, then figure out how many shims to use on the right side.

Hopefully someone else can show you a picture of the thrust bearing if you are still unclear about it.

[nickelroadster]

Gilletman,

Sorry. I do not seem to be able to find any of the thrust bearings to show you a picture of. Why don't you show us some pictures of what you do have. I will try to describe what is supposed to be there as well as I can.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]210934[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]210935[/ATTACH]The picture of the rear end shows a Hyatt roller bearing that sits on the differential bushing. There is on shim or washer that goes between the Hyatt and the differential. If other shims are needed to adjust rear end play , they go on the outer side of the Hyatt. The thrust bearing fits into the other case half on the other side of the shims and Hyatt bearing. Shims that go on the outside of the Hyatt do not have as big a hole as the ones in the lower right of the picture as they are meant to nest over the axle but not over the bushing on the differential as the ones on the lower left do. The rough shaped shims on the top of the picture were some that were probably put in the car about fifty years ago and were not done well. The thrust bearings are solid on one side and show the balls on the other. The sides with the balls go in the side of the differential case. In order to set the play of the rear end, you need to guess the number of shims needed on the right side, put the differential into the right side of the case, bolt the torque tube onto the right side and check the rear end play. This needs to be done as many times as is necessary to get the play right. When you have gotten the play on the right side set, then figure out how many shims to use on the right side.

Hopefully someone else can show you a picture of the thrust bearing if you are still unclear about it.

[gilletman]

Gilletman,

Sorry. I do not seem to be able to find any of the thrust bearings to show you a picture of. Why don't you show us some pictures of what you do have. I will try to describe what is supposed to be there as well as I can.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]210934[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]210935[/ATTACH]The picture of the rear end shows a Hyatt roller bearing that sits on the differential bushing. There is on shim or washer that goes between the Hyatt and the differential. If other shims are needed to adjust rear end play , they go on the outer side of the Hyatt. The thrust bearing fits into the other case half on the other side of the shims and Hyatt bearing. Shims that go on the outside of the Hyatt do not have as big a hole as the ones in the lower right of the picture as they are meant to nest over the axle but not over the bushing on the differential as the ones on the lower left do. The rough shaped shims on the top of the picture were some that were probably put in the car about fifty years ago and were not done well. The thrust bearings are solid on one side and show the balls on the other. The sides with the balls go in the side of the differential case. In order to set the play of the rear end, you need to guess the number of shims needed on the right side, put the differential into the right side of the case, bolt the torque tube onto the right side and check the rear end play. This needs to be done as many times as is necessary to get the play right. When you have gotten the play on the right side set, then figure out how many shims to use on the right side.

Hopefully someone else can show you a picture of the thrust bearing if you are still unclear about it.

Thanks Marty, i think i know now how to put it together. Al i need is dimentions of the thrust bearing, and find out exactly the position where to put it. Those are missing at my original. Kind regards, and thanks a lot.

[nickelroadster]

The thrust bearing is the first bearing that is put into the differential. If you look into the differential half, it fits on a lip that is a few inches in. It is the same diameter (or very close to ) as the Hyatt roller bearing and is about 1/2" thick. The shims go in between the hyatt and the thrust bearing and are used to adjust the ring pinion clearance and the sideways play in the axle-differential unit. Did you drop the pinion gear off of the torque tube and check the thrust bearing there? It is very similar and possibly may be the same size. AS long as you have some clearance to play with the thickness of the thrust bearing could vary a little bit as you have some clearance to take out with shims. In later years they made this adjustment a whole lot easier with threaded spacers that could be change from the outside. Still it may help to show us pictures of your differential pieces that you do. have.

Edited August 30, 2013 by nickelroadster
addition (see edit history)

[hddennis]

Gilletman, don't know if this helps or not but 1914-1917 Maxwells use Hyatt bearings and that setup looks like this. I was able to get new bearings a few years ago from Olcar Bearing Co. Howard Dennis

[nickelroadster]

Well... The maxwell rear end looks rather different but if you enlarge the picture, the thrust bearing looks quite similar to what you will need.

[hddennis]

Well... The maxwell rear end looks rather different but if you enlarge the picture, the thrust bearing looks quite similar to what you will need.

One thing that may make the Maxwell axle look strange is the ring gear is missing as the rear was hurriedly assembled to transport the car to it's new home. Howard Dennis

[gilletman]

Okay, thanks everyone for all the info. I think i have all the info i need to get things running again. Now i'm looking for new bearings and than produce a new axel. Hop can get the car running again before winter. Thanks again.

[gilletman]

Okay, thanks everyone for all the info. I think i have all the info i need to get things running again. Now i'm looking for new bearings and than produce a new axel. Hop can get the car running again before winter. Thanks again.

Hello,

We are four weeks further or is it alreaddy more, and have trouble to find new bearings for my Oakland 1910 rear axel in europe.

So i' looking for adresses where i could purchase thise items. Contacted alreaddy Olcar Bearing Co. Hope they can help, but just in case more adresses are welcome.

Have no other options to replace those bearings.

[MochetVelo]

Let us know if you find a thrust bearing of this type. I was unable to find one large enough for the differential I was working on. I substituted a Timken taper bearing which handles radial and thrust forces. This may not fit in your application, however.

Phil