Guest btate Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Here are some pictures from inside the oil pan and note the magnet filings and sludge. Is this normal on a rebuilt engine with 950 miles. We are in the engine to try and repair a rear main seal leak and this is what we found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I would say that they didn't clean it well after machining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Is this normal on a rebuilt engine with 950 miles.No...................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I would say that they didn't clean it well after machining.Does that look familiar Mike? Similar to those clowns that delivered yours 'assembly clean'. I don't know if Bill's rebuilder is incompetent or dishonest...or both. Stuff like that just ticks me off. Time to send that guy a 'nasty-gram'...by a lawyer. There are people out there that will do a fantastic job...this is far from it.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Bill, take the oil pump apart and inspect. All of that crud had the potential of going through the oil pump before the filter hopefully stopped it from going to the rest of the engine. Remove the valve covers and look for similar stuff in the recessed area of the heads, indicating that some of that stuff circulated.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Does that look familiar Mike? Similar to those clowns that delivered yours "assembly clean"Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I would present these pictures to your builder and ask that same question. I'm interested in his answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest btate Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 My car builder confronted the engine builder this morning and he said he washed the engine and did the best he could do. I noticed the gasket at the oil pump was missing. I looked through the gaskets engine builder returned when engine was complete and there it was. My car builder, not my engine builder, said Chevy's do not have a gasket at oil pump. I inspected the rope seal the engine builder had installed and the use of sealant, today. I would have thought a 12 year old on crack cocaine did the work. On another note, there's not any sludge around the valve covers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Needless to say a recommendation to others on this "engine builder" are not forthcoming. I think I would look to get some money back for the time and effort you have spent corrected his less than stellar work. Take pictures and document everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The worst part about reading this (to me), is that obviously Bill is just plain frustrated. I know it sucks when you have spent an inordinate amount of time and money on something and it still isn't right.What I'm trying to say is.... Bill, I feel your pain. I hope you are driving soon and not worried about this piddly crap anymore. These are great cars and will give many years of (relatively) trouble-free enjoyable miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadmaster75 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Let us pause for moment here.....After looking at the pics closer, it occurred to me that many "engine/cam assembly lubes" are dark charcoal or black in color. (graphite/zinc etc) I myself use them on all my engine projects.So ......Question is:Is the black stuff REALLY old sludge from long ago? Or, is it the residue of assembly lubethat is thick, heavier than oil by nature, and gravity pulled it into the pan after initial run-in?Further analysis of the material is in order.Silvery Metallic shavings are another matter. A very small amount of bearing material MIGHT be ok; esp.on a fresh rebuild. Example-I used to put fresh bearings and rings in my dragster engine several timesa season. At the track we would use a special oil filter that allowed inspection forthis sort of thing at the filter, and we'd carefully inspect the bottom of the drain panafter two runs. We'd always find bearing material! And, never had an engine problemin 10 years on that motor! We'd read the shavings like gypsy tea leaves readers!!I know...I know it was a race car, but the point is that a tiny amount ofbearing material is NOT necessarily a death sentence for your motor....esp. on a fresh re-build.mike's 2 cents this beautiful morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 A small amount of bearing material is ok, but not magnetic material (probably from machine work). I also see what is probably carbon particles that did not come from this recent rebuild. I thought engine assembly lube dissolved in the oil after running. I have opened up some recent rebuilds and all I saw was some stain/film on the pan bottom....except one time there were chunks of bearing material from the cam bearings due to a bent camshaft. Checking the oil filter canister may give more clues as to what went through the oil pump (and hopefully trapped by the filter, which can be taken apart for inspection)...that is if the rebuilder bothered to clean the canister.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The carbon might be the byproduct of the poorly running engine(loading up of fuel, misfiring) that was recently corrected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest btate Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Inspected the oil pump and screen today, and found them very clean. Also replaced oil filter and filter housing was also very clean. I am hoping that the sludge , once it hit the oil pan, it stayed there. Also the valve's are also very clean. I think I will use 30 wt. standard oil for 500 miles, as of today I changed the rear oil main and change to Royal Purple synthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Our age and level of attention to detail makes up poor customers to any "professionals" whether they are mechanics or doctors. A professional in business has to rapidly and profitably use their skills. The everyday skills are generally the average of the last 60 to 90 days of jobs. They do the routine at whatever rate of warrant returns they find acceptable as well as profitable.Rebuilding nailheads, Kettering engines, or 9 main bearing straight eights does not fall into a professional's scope. The primary consideration is attention to detail; following the manufacturer's instructions exactly. It is rare to find a shop who will read a manual.Self reliance is our best means of survival. Cleaning that engine is an easy job for a conscientious amateur with lots of soapy water and a collection of bottle brushes. A professional will rarely do that and probably tell you its not necessary. A conscientious amateur will follow the steps in a shop manual with full attention. Take your shop manual to a shop and they will wonder why you brought it. I have set my shop manual on the counter when I used to farm out work and picked it up at the end of the job; obviously never moved or referenced. The work was shoddy and I had to redo it myself.Books are cheap on Ebay. Basic mechanic's texts can be had for under $10. Stock up and study or prepare for long lists of excuses.Do I practice what I preach? I trained my nephew to do a large percentage of my work, but there is still stuff only I do. In another part of my life I found the same situation to exist in the medical field. I spend one hour a day studying neuroscience and the circulatory system. Each new book gets more expensive than the last. It is a repeat of the situation I found with cars when I was in my 20's. Build a garage, buy books, buy tools, and concentrate on your car. Self sufficient hobbyists smile a lot more.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Build a garage, buy books, buy tools, and concentrate on your car. Self sufficient hobbyists smile a lot more.BernieAmen to that, Bro......................................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Unfortunately the old car hobby requires some degree of mechanical skills. But most of us can't do engine machine work and a lot of the old time skills are fading. I would anticipate that cleaning is generally 90% of the job so I do think the concern is well founded. I assume the metal disk is a magnet and the filings are sticking to it. In defense of the shop, The filings might have been hiding in a part, let's say in the oil filter sump added after the engine was installed. I have to admit, I'm almost never happy with outside vendors. That in turn forces me to do as much as possible as to what my time and tools will permit. I have become anal retentive about the fluids, they generally tell you the story if you are willing to look. Anything less than "looks like new" has an underlying problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 You just reminded me of a long discussion as to whether anal-retentive should be hyphenated. One of the most excruciating things I remember in my whole life was a 80 mile ride in a 1941 Cadillac and all the windshield molding screws were haphazardly tightened at different angles. AND I DIDN'T HAVE A PHILIPS SCREWDRIVER TO SQUARE THEM UP!! God! It's making me squirm in my chair now.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest btate Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Today I drove the car home from work which is about 10 miles. After about 2 hours I noticed one drop of oil on the floor. I used Wllie's method of rear main repair. Of course one drop could have come from anywhere. I am ok with a small leak. I hope it stays small. Will keep you informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airy Cat Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Do not take your engine to a rebuilder that mainly rebuilds Chevy engines. They do not know how to properly rebuild a Buick engine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Today I drove the car home from work which is about 10 miles. After about 2 hours I noticed one drop of oil on the floor. I used Wllie's method of rear main repair. Of course one drop could have come from anywhere. I am ok with a small leak. I hope it stays small. Will keep you informed.Progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest btate Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Drove back to work today and car has been sitting all day-----no oil---period. I didn't know I could fix a rear main seal----well, I could not without all you guys help, especially Willie. thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Willie is plethora of good solid information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 persona non grata To those that have contacted me asking why I have not submitted that tip and the other tech tips on my website to the Bugle for publication.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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