tenugent Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 getting ready for lexington-had just about everything done.went to start and didnt want to turn over.so i switched starters and same problem.pulled radiator and plugs-soaked cylinders with pb blaster-tryed to turn over with breaker bar and its only moving about two inches.ill let it soak for another day and try again.car hasnt been started in about 18 months but ran great then-stored inside the whole time.any ideas-hate to go to meet without the car.thanks.T.Nugent roa 12969... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 NugentCouple of valves hanging open and hitting pistons??? I`m assuming you tried to bar the engine over with the plugs removed? If not, try to turn the engine over without the plugs. If so, pull the valve covers and check for valves stuck in their guides. Some well placed Penetrating oil and a couple light taps with a hammer should free them up. Are you running old gas?? Tom MooneyPS BTW, I will trade work on your car for guitar lessons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 thanks for the reply tom-tryed the bar with plugs out-will check valves-my freind whos going to lex. with me was more disapointed then me-he rebuilds harleys so one of us knows something about mechanics.gas is old with additive-should i drain.hope its the valves or ill have to pull and rebuild being a early 425 #s matching.thanks again tom ill keep posted what happens.T.Nugent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Tim,Hopefully it's just a valve or two that's stuck. If I were you, I'd pull the heads and take a good look at the short block before considering a rebuild. If you can turn the engine over with the heads off, you'd be on a quicker path to getting down the road. If it were running when you parked it, I'd think it shouldn't be too serious of a problem.Good luck and keep us updated.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 got the valve covers and rocker arms off- tapped on all spings they all seem to be at top-before i pull the heads would it be a good idea to check the timing chain-then if no damage to chain i can turn just crank and piston-im no mechanic-just trying to do this by process of elimination-any thoughts out there.thanks in advance.T.Nugent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I think that you can check timing chain slop without taking off the water pump and front covers. Take off your distributor cap and watch the rotor as you push/pull on a breaker bar connected to the crank bolt. If there's slop in the chain, there will be hesitation in the rotation of the rotor. I'd do anything possible before messing with the aluminum pump and front cover. Nasty place for bolts to break off or strip out some aluminum threads.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 thanks ed ill check that-guess im trying to get away from taking heads off(alot of work).thought with chain off i could turn crank only and that would tell me if bottom end is the problem.i cant move crank at all-scared to force to much with breakerbar and cheater.ill let you know what i find out.T.Nugent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 T Pull the rocker shafts off, only a few bolts, loosen each a little at a time to relieve valve spring pressure. After removal you will be able to compare the valve stem heights to be sure you do not have any valves stuck in an open position. With the plugs still removed you should be able to bar the engine over. Timing chain wear will not cause the problem you are experiencing. No need to remove the timing chain to eliminate the valve train from consideration. Tom Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrlforfun Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 OK Ted: I can not diagnose but I can share my years of experience with Buicks that have sat for a long time. Ya gotta have spark and fuel. It's got to crank nicelyOil and filter must be fresh with a quart of Marvels Mystery Oil in case it fires and runs a valve won't possibly get stuck.Use an auxiliary fuel supply like a can with fresh gas hooked up to the carb or fuel pump. Make sure the fuel filter is fresh, clear plastic and don't hesitate to use as many as you need to. Gas from the tank or somewhere else (carb) can easily cause debris to clog the needle and seat in the carb. Many times the engine will run fine, the carb floods, the plugs are dead and it's running lousy.One of the biggest culprits I've found is moisture getting in the engine. Also, don't forget that if you do get it running drop that oil pan and clean out the 3/4 inches of sediment. Mitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steeleco Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 My 2 cents: I don't mean this in a condescending way and hope if I have a problem someone tells me to check the obvious but Is the car out of gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 tryed in park and neutral.thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steeleco Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Tim,Best of luck my friend, certainly sorry to hear about the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steeleco Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I saw somewhere that a chunk of carbon can get into a spot that can lock up an engine. If it's on the internet it must be true. ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 hey guys got the old girl to turn over with a cheater on my breaker bar-had plugs out-rockers off and made sure valves were all up(not stuck)-the pbr blaster must have done its job over a couple of days.car ran great when last started(18 months)i didnt think this could happen with car inside the whole time.i hope this helps someone down the road.thanks to all you guys and your help-this forum is great-see you in lexington.T.Nugent roa 12969...one last thing-what does anyone recomend for valve cover gaskets for buick aluminum covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 tenugent, Is there a remote possibility that you leaked a tiny bit of coolant into one cylinder while sitting and rusted it up? If so, it may have shown as a different looking spark plug when you pulled them. Also, it you haven't already changed the oil, crack the pan plug and be sure it's only oil that first dribbles out, not water and watch for condensation in the valve cover, you would have probably already seen rust when you pulled them. Just seems odd that the engine would stick that tight. TexasJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 TJ thought about that-plugs looked good-no condensation on valve covers-going to change oil before starting and check-the oil in it is clean but when covers came of oil was very dirty around rockers-any thoughts.thanks for the heads up.T.Nugent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Nuge, So, you removed the rocker shafts and the engine turns over and you have come to the conclusion the PB Blaster freed the engine? I assume, then, that you have re-installed the valve train and the engine still turns over? If not, be sure the rockers are free on their shafts and that the cam turns with the crank. Also a good time to get some lube on the valve stems while the valves are all on their seats and most of the valve stems are exposed. Not to be a kill=joy but I`m somewhat skeptical your problem was corrosion on the cylinder walls?? Be sure to get fresh fuel into the tank. Best to remove the old and add fresh, dont just add fresh fuel to the old. Believe it or not, fuel which has begun to turn to "varnish" will absolutely, positively, cause the valve stems to stick in their guides, even when blended with fresh fuel. Good luck! Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Nuge,Be sure to get fresh fuel into the tank. Best to remove the old and add fresh, dont just add fresh fuel to the old. Believe it or not, fuel which has begun to turn to "varnish" will absolutely, positively, cause the valve stems to stick in their guides, even when blended with fresh fuel. Good luck!Tom MooneyThis is excellent advice for everyone thinking about running out old fuel. I have experienced it first hand in a commercial mower engine. Thought I'd be Ok to mix some fresh fuel at 50% to old (approx 2 years) since it seemed to be running OK as it was. 15 minutes and 3 bent pushrods later I found out how easy old fuel can stick valves. I know its common practice for many to try and run an engine with old fuel because sucking the old fuel out isn't an attractive process. Often you can get away with running old fuel but essentially its gambling and if you lose on a car engine, the result can be devastating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 thanks for the input guys-i can use all the advice i can get-will get rid of old gas and address valves.tom is there anything i can do to cylinder walls before starting.how about the valvecover gaskets-i can only find felpro-saw in another thread somewhere that they didnt like that brand-covers are buick aluminum.thanks again T.Nugent roa 12969... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Best Gasket Inc. makes a good product as does Victor-Reinz. I think that Russ Martin in Grass Valley, CA has the parts you want. Google Russ Martin Nailhead to find his website. Call him, tell him what you've got, and he'll recommend the correct part.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steeleco Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Hey Tim have you got the car running yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 not yet-want to talk to russ martin first-been cleaning and have to order valvecover gaskets-get new gas-remove old-lube vaive stems etc..ill keep everybody posted on what russ says and my progress.thanks.T.Nugent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 talked to russ martin this morning-he thinks its the 2 year old gas has gummedup the cylinder walls causing rings to stick being there were no signs of moisture-said to coat walls with atf- going to crank over to get pb blaster out-then change oil a couple times-problobly check carbs for varnish buildup-of course pump out tank.hope this helps somebody else down the road.if i run into anything else ill post.thanks for all the help.T.Nugent roa 12969... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Add a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil to the first oil change, if it runs ok, drive it awhile to cut all the carbon and varnish before you change the oil again. It will not hurt to leave it in there awhile to do it's work. You can rig a valve spring compressor lever setup to compress each valve to the max if the piston is down and you might feel the sticky ones as you slowly let them return. You will not be able to lube the stems and guides with bonnet style seals unless you unkey the valves at TDC and replace them as you go. Some engines used orings under the spring retainer instead of bonnet seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 thanks TJ-going to do the mysyery oil thing-should i use some in fuel also.T.Nugent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Sure thing. I once had a friend bring me a Honda lawn mower that wouldn't start. He said it cranked up and ran a little while then got to where it died and wouldn't restart. It spun over with little compression. I removed the valve cover and valve a valve stuck down in the guide. I freed it up, changed the oil and ran it with a 8-12 oz of MMO for awhile. The engine looked clean inside but when I drained the oil it was BLACK! That was a year ago, haven't heard anything since then. TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steeleco Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Calling Tim,Tell me something good, how is the car running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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