want to buy 53 Buick carpeting in dark blue

[Guest martylum]

Hi-I'm restoring a 53 Buick Skylark and have recently found that Hampton Coach no longer stocks or can get most of the carpeting colors.

I'm doing a blue and white interior and am looking for the dark blue carpeting which goes with that interior. Does anyone have some yardage of the specially woven carpeting in dark blue?

thanks

Martin Lum

53 76X

717-729-4080

marty@oldercar.com

[54BuickDoc]

Contact

[TABLE]

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[TD]Jenkins Antique & Classic Auto Restoration

Auto Repair & Service

[/TD]

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[TD]Location:[/TD]

[TD]102 Chestnut Street

North Wilkesboro, NC 28659

336-667-4282

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[Guest martylum]

I'm still looking for that dark blue 53 convertible carpeting in gross point grain.

Martin Lum

marty@oldercar.com

[jackofalltrades70]

Marty,

Did you try Kanter? I don't know what color or texture you are looking for, but the set I got is o.k.

Kanter Auto Products - Gallery=

Matt

[1953mack]

Just saying that OEM carpet for 1953 Buicks was what they called ROXPOINT.....not Daytona Weave nor Grospoint.....from a 1953 FACTS FOR BUICK SALESMEN book.





Al Malachowski
BCA #8965
"500 Miles West of Flint"

Edited December 7, 2015 by 1953mack (see edit history)

[Guest martylum]

Al-thanks for the comment. LeBaron Bonney's sample card carpeting (which they no longer sell) is a grospoint grain according to several other carpeting vendors who sell carpeting for 53 Skylark. . Their carpet samples match the weaving pattern of the, I think, original carpeting in the car which is very nicely cut, sewn, and edge bound..

Do you have any remnants of what you are sure are original carpeting. LeBaron is currently offering Daytona weave which was used in mid 50's GMs as floor carpeting. This is clearly a different pattern and is not available in my original carpet color.

What is a Skylark restorer to do under the circumstances and what are the judges looking for in the Buick club?

Martin Lum

53 Skylark

[Restorer32]

Have you checked with Hirsch?

[Guest martylum]

Hi-Bill Hirsch does not have any rocpoint or grospoint carpeting. Jenkins will not say but is saving his carpeting stock for whole interior orders. Chances are he's offering Daytona which is readily available in 3 shades of blue but is not the correct coarser weave pattern.

2 major carpet vendors-ACC and Automat -- offer grospoint carpet for 53 Buicks but only in red and tan so they must feel this pattern closely matches the original weave and red and tan must be the only 2 colors it's made.

Daytona may be the road to travel if I stay away from dyeing some other color carpeting.

Mark me a still looking for dark blue in the coarser weave pattern.

Marty Lum

[buick5563]

I looked up ACC, because that is usually my fallback supplier. Obviously, I didn't recommend them because of color issues.

I would be much more inclined to buy the tan Gros Point from them and try to dye it. Even though Daytona looks good, it's not right. I personally would not have known the difference between Gros and Rox... And I have been a team captain in charge of judging those cars at Nationals.

Ya learn something new every day!

Have you called SMS?

[1953mack]

.....Do you have any remnants of what you are sure are original carpeting. LeBaron is currently offering Daytona weave which was used in mid 50's GMs as floor carpeting. This is clearly a different pattern and is not available in my original carpet color. What is a Skylark restorer to do under the circumstances and what are the judges looking for in the Buick club?.....

∙ I do not have any remnants of any ROXPOINT carpeting. It's well known that ROXPOINT has not been available for years.
∙ At one of the BCA National's Judging School session a few years back, it was verbally mentioned by the Assistant Head Judge of the Meet, that the DAYTONA WEAVE would be considered an approved, but not OEM correct, substitute (without any point deductions) for ROXPOINT carpeting in 1953 Buicks.
∙ FWIW, in judging the Interior under the BCA 400-point system in Class G (1953-1954 Skylarks), "carpets/mats/sill plates" have a maximum, NOT mandatory, four (4) point deduction for authenticity, workmanship, and/or condition.
∙ The attached pics are early 1990's taken at a Buick Skylark Meet showing a blue & white interior trim package on a Reef Blue 1953 Buick Skylark. I do not know what was OEM or replaced. Note the mat, different colors of carpet binding, carpet shrinkage, etc.

Keep us posted.






Al Malachowski
BCA #8965
"500 Miles West of Flint"

Edited December 7, 2015 by 1953mack (see edit history)

[buick5563]

The deduction if noticed would only be one point if done in a workmanlike manner, I believe. It is possible that Daytona is an approved replacement. I don't know. Thanks for your insights Al.

[Guest martylum]

Re: 53 blue carpet questions I raised:

First, thanks for your response and comments.

SMS offers only Daytona. ACCarpet and Automat offer only red and tan gros point for 53 Buicks. Have not heard of roxpoint other than the term from any vendor.

The gros point vendors do not recommend dyeing it as it's bonded to foam. We are going to try a sample dye job on some Daytona as I think the gros point weave close to the original rocpoint weave pattern..

Another question for you blue and white interior owners who have Skylarks or Roadmaster cars as they called for the same blue carpet according to the 53 shop manual trim section..

WHAT COLOR blue is or was your original carpeting. Does it match the medium blue upholstery or the dark blue dash? My carpet matches the dark blue dash but I can't be sure it is original. Yes, it does have the grospoint weave which is a much coarser weave than Daytona and is a deadon match for Hampton Coaches' carpet sample weave which they only offer in red.

Thanks

Martin Lum

76X upholstery questions

[old-tank]

Times have changed! Back in the mid 1980's when I was looking for Daytona all of the above referenced big name vendors wanted to sell Roxpoint or Grospoint. I finally bought some yardage from a chevy supplier and had it made locally.

If you dye that carpet, be sure to do that before it is sewn...it WILL shrink. It will probably also shorten the life of the foam backing like hot antifreeze does. Spraying with SEM plastic paint will work to change the color, but the carpet will feel 'crusty'.

Willie

[1953mack]

.....My carpet matches the dark blue dash but I can't be sure it is original.....

Some pics might help.

If your dark blue carpet is nylon and has a sponge rubber base (backing) as mentioned in my Post #5 above, that alone should give you a better idea. If it isn't nylon or doesn't have a sponge rubber base, "all bets are off" to whether it is OEM or re-dyed OEM. My bet would be that the OEM colour is or is very close to the pics in my Post #10 above.....not the dark blue.

A definitive answer for the real McCoy needs to come from someone that has a 1953 Buick Dealer Showroom Album (hard to find) that has OEM upholstery and carpet samples.....or.....find a 1953 Buick Owner that has a swatch of the OEM blue carpet like you requested in your Post #12 above. Good Luck.

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

Edited March 18, 2013 by 1953mack (see edit history)

[Guest martylum]

I'm not thrilled with the idea of dyeing new carpet no matter what the base is but in order to get the original weave style that seems the only way to go. No matter whether I go a dye job or buy Daytona the oriiginal blue color question still lingers.

I called Rich Berger who has an original blue car with low miles and he thinks the original blue carpeting matched the medium blue seat inserts so I have received one vote for medium blue from a pretty good source.

A showroom trim color catalog would be nice and I do have the Buick trim # for the blue carpeting. Anyone have a 53 dealer trim catalog?

On the plus side Daytona blue carpet colors choices do include an acceptable blue to match either the seat inserts or the dark blue dash.

The dark blue carpeting I removed is the gros grain pattern but the fabric is woven on a textile base so it very well may be a redo sometime in the past. My upholsterer is not thrilled with carpeting fabric bonded tso a foam base and feels the base will deteriorate long before the fabric.

My gros grain carpet samples from Hampton Coach have fabric bonded to what appears to be felt.

Thanks

Martin Lum

53 76X

[Guest Rob McDonald]

It's well known that ROXPOINT has not been available for years.

AL, this may be off-topic because Marty's looking for Grospoint carpet, which has a tightly-woven loop pile. As shown in your photo of a Skylark, Roxpoint is an attractive material that's like a very heavy, coarse canvas, without a raised pile. Depending on cost, I am tempted to use Roxpoint on the Valiant project I have underway. This will be a year-round daily driver and I like the idea of a carpet you can practically hose down.

I asked Doug Pollock at SMS to send me a sample of red Roxpoint and he didn't bat an eye. Should have it any day now and I'll let the group know how much it costs.

[Guest martylum]

Hi-I'm the originator of this posting about blue Skylark carpeting. I recently visited a mostly original white 53 Skylark with an red and white interior which appears to have original red carpeting. This carpeting is depicted in the accompanying photo. It appears to be almost if not identical with a currently available carpeting called Gros point.

You can buy this pattern material from Auto Custom Carpeting in either pre-sewn or yardage. See their website for details on pre-sewn for various car years. Call for yardage costs. However it is only available in red or tan colors so I'm still looking for blue yardage in the same weaving pattern.

The dark blue carpeting I removed from my project is the same weaving pattern and sewing cuts at the seats and transmission so perhaps it's original.

Jenkins, a long-time Skylark upholsterer, told me this carpet was available part of the production year to match the darker dash and the other part to match the lighter seat inserts when Buick changed carpet suppliers.

Hope you can blow up this photo to see the actual pattern.

Marty Lum

53 Skylark

[Guest Rob McDonald]

I received my sample (in red) from SMS. Although I asked for Roxpoint, this is described as Gros Point ($75 per yard, $575 for a pre-made carpet set). It's lovely stuff, with a very tight loop pile and a distinct grid pattern, set on a foam backing. However, it's not what I remember as being original to a '53 Skylark.

MARTY, I can't blow up the photo you attached. Although it's faded, would you say that red carpet would have originally looked like this?

[Guest martylum]

Rob-It's a bit difficult for me to tell wheether your sample is gros point but my sample of gros point in tan looks very much like the original weave of the red carpeting in the 53 Buick I photoed. Auto Custom Carpet is who I got my carpet sample from and I think they control the market in this item. As to the color I do think your sample is in the same color family as the original red.

If you send me an e-mail I'll e-mail you my photo and you might be able to blow it up as I can on my computer with Picasa

Martin Lum

53 Skylark

marty@oldercar.com

[Guest Rob McDonald]

MARTY, my interest in this carpet is academic only at this point. I am hundreds of hours away from worrying about finishing touches. Still I'll send you a PM with my email and we can exchange hi-res photos of these two products.

[1953mack]

Originally Posted by 1953mack

It's well known that ROXPOINT has not been available for years.

AL, this may be off-topic because Marty's looking for Grospoint carpet, which has a tightly-woven loop pile. As shown in your photo of a Skylark, Roxpoint is an attractive material that's like a very heavy, coarse canvas, without a raised pile. Depending on cost, I am tempted to use Roxpoint on the Valiant project I have underway. This will be a year-round daily driver and I like the idea of a carpet you can practically hose down.

I asked Doug Pollock at SMS to send me a sample of red Roxpoint and he didn't bat an eye. Should have it any day now and I'll let the group know how much it costs.

Rob,

I read in your Post #18 above that Doug Pollock at SMS quoted you a price of $75/yard or $575/pre-made carpet set for the red Gros Point. Is that a running yard (if so, how wide) or square yard? Also, curious to find out what he quoted you on the ROXPOINT?

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

Edited April 4, 2013 by 1953mack (see edit history)

[buick5563]

Also Rob, are you sure that is what you need for your car? I know Buick changed over to Daytona in 54 or 55.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Sorry, I let this trail get cold.

AL, fabric is almost universally sold by the running yard. Although it's usually 54" wide, automotive body cloth was/is made wide enough to span the width of the seats. That's the way I bought my Buick's cloth and vinyl from SMS last fall and I paid by the running yard, not by square yard. I'd guess that auto carpeting is wide enough to cover the floor sill-to-sill. You'd have to check with SMS directly, though, to confirm the dimension and pricing units of this specially-made carpet.

I was talking recently to my old friend who used reproduction Roxpoint in his '53 Skylark, about 20 years ago. I didn't have my recent sample at hand but he remembered that what he used - which was identical to the original - did have a very short, "mouse fur" pile, in a grid pattern. He said it wasn't as flat as I described my memory of it. That sure sounds like the Grospoint weave that SMS sent me. I'll have to show my friend that sample to get his direct opinion.

MIKE, you're right, the carpet in my '57 was very different from Roxpoint. By then, Roadmasters (and Limiteds the next year) used a very long cut pile carpet, for which I've never found a really good facsimile. Truthfully, my interest in this unique carpet is kind of a daydream, for use in the '62 Valiant that I intend to make my daily driver. Roxpoint's short, hose-it-down nap appeals to me, for a car that will have much more practical utility than trophy-gathering glamour. However, I'm about three lifetimes away from trimming that interior, sorry to admit.

[Guest martylum]

Re:carpet width

the gros point carpeting which is available as a close replacement for the original pattern is sold in a 54" width so you need to buy enough to

go across the width of the car floor. The width being 70" in a 53 Roadmaster takes 2 yards for front and rear areas.

Marty Lum

53 series 76

[Guest Rob McDonald]

MARTY, that makes sense, there's no reason for non-directionally patterned carpet to be the full width of a car floor. Running standard 54" width material from side-to-side would work fine, since the front, middle, and rear sections are usually separate pieces anyway. I think upholsterers that call that "railroading", when a wide sofa or car seat is covered that way.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Rob McDonald (see edit history)

[1953mack]

.....WHAT COLOR blue is or was your original carpeting. Does it match the medium blue upholstery or the dark blue dash? My carpet matches the dark blue dash but I can't be sure it is original. Yes, it does have the grospoint weave which is a much coarser weave than Daytona and is a deadon match for Hampton Coaches' carpet sample weave which they only offer in red.....

Here's the latest.....

■ I just received a 9" x 12" remnant of the carpet that was purchased from LeBaron Bonney within the last year and installed in one of our local BCA Chapter member's 1953 Reef Blue Skylark convertible within the last six months. See Pic #1. I would NOT call this a dark blue color compared to what the upper instrument panel should be painted, and what you may be looking for. Whether this was the last yardage that was available from LB, the trim shop installer did not know. I do not have a name for it. My personal opinion is that this carpet has somewhat of a green tint to it, rather than a true blue, but I seriously doubt that you might find anything closer in a color or look than this.

■ Pic #2 is of the back side "black fuzz" carpet backing. It is definitely not sponge rubber as the OEM ROXPOINT carpet had. I do not know what they call this backing.

■ Contrary to Post #26 above, OEM floor carpet for 1953 Buick Skylarks consisted of four (4) pieces: one-piece front, one-piece rear, one-piece left side between front/back, and one-piece right side between front/back. Don't forget that there is a carpeted trim piece on the back side of each of the front seat backs.....just saying, two yards of 54"-wide material might be a tad short and doesn't allow anything for waste or cutting errors. I do not believe that the mats were OEM. See Pic #3. A knowledgeable and experienced trim shop shouldn't have a problem duplicating the OEM look.

■ Talking to the trim shop installer, they highly recommend purchasing carpet yardage in lieu of a pre-sewn carpet kit.

Hopefully, this clarifies a few of the issues previously addressed above.

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

[50 Buick Woodie]

Wondering if anyone can ADD there experience with locating carpet for interiors.

What vendors have you found? (Feb 2021 Who is still in business?)

What is acceptable for BCA judging of vehcles?

Have the rules in Judging been adapted for what the vendors / suppliers are manufacturing?

Is Blue available?