40 Special I'm looking at

[Dave_B]

Lately I've been looking for a 36-38 Special and came across this '40 Special 4door. The paint is about a 15 footer. The left rear fender paint is checking, but that is the worst area. Grill is complete but has some pitting. The interior looks good with a recent upholstery kit, which was sloppily installed. The seller couldn't start it because it had a gas leak. You will see the gas on the pavement in the pictures.

Anyway I'm posting a bunch of pictures and please feel free to nit pick the car. I'm looking for critical input here aka negotiating talking points.

Thanks

Dave

[trp3141592]

Hi,

Figure $350 for "Gas Tank Renu" to recondition the fuel tank. Plus shipping if you're not near a franchise. Plus labor at your mechanic's place to remove and re-install the tank.

Since the tank has rusted through enough to cause leaks, assume that the tank is crudded up inside. Therefore count on there being crud in the carburetor--rebuild is about $250 at the Carburetor Factory.

Since you won't be seeing it or hearing it run, visually, thoroughly, and CAREFULLY inspect the block, head, and radiator for cracks and signs of anti-freeze leaks. Recoring the radiator will go 600 to 700 bucks.

At least hear it crank over if no one is willing to try to start it. Listen for clanking rods.

Good luck with this find. It could be a great one!

--Tom

[FLYER15015]

Dave,

My $ .02 = You have got to make it run !!!!!

Even if you have to hook up a gallon can some place. This will determine if you even want to get started on the small stuff.

You have not told us what your level of expertice is. Are you "mechanical" ?

A carb kit is less than $40.00, and a fuel pump kit is less than $80.00 at "Bob's". Count on a saturday afternoon for each, and it's fun.......

My upholsterer charged $600.00 for both seats in "Bedford Cord" which I bought thru Lebaron Bonny (6 yards did both).

A good clay bar job and a can of Meguires could turn her into a 5 foot car. There is another saturday afternoon.

Lots of the "bits and pieces" are very available here on the buy/sell forum. Sometimes you just have to be patient.

Check out my CLR flush for the radiator as your first step. It might save a radiator "boil" , which in and of itself is not a big deal. Hayden makes a great 6 bladed flex fan for around $40.00 on e-bay, if she tends to run a bit warm.

Clutches and brake shoes can be relined and MC and wheel cylinders can be honed (or replaced) for not much more than a new car. You just have to search for the right supplier.

There is a lot of help available here on the forum for each of the problems you WILL encounter.

And always remember, it is the journey.... not the destination, that you will remember.

Mike in Colorado

PS What is the "asking" price, if you don't mind telling us.

[Dave_B]

Thanks Tom and Mike,

First off yes, I am "mechanical". Couldn't spell my way out of a wet paper bag but I've been messin' around with cars since high school, so I mostly do it myself. I did hear the car run, sort of. The seller got it running by spraying carb cleaner down the carb. It sounded ok except for a lot of exhaust noise, manifold gasket or exhaust connection type noise. The gas leak was reported to be a kink in the line where he had installed a 6v fuel pump back by the gas tank. Quoting you, Mike, I told him he should install a really big gas filter between the pump and the tank.

I put my finger in the radiator neck and it came out with oily rust colored stuff. I thought that was typical for a car that age. The CLR treatment is probably called for.

When I stepped on the brake pedal it went to the floor. He said he had put new wheel cylinders in but the brakes need a bleed at a minimum.

One thing that worried me was the condition of the gauges. They seems to be some kind of deterioration in the face of the gas/oil and the amp/water temp gauges. How would that be repaired?

The other thing was that the head liner seemed to be cut short at the edges and I'm concerned that there may not be enough material to secure it around the perimeter. Thoughts?

I'll tell you all the asking price but first, what do you think he should be asking?

Dave

[jscheib]

Dave,

With the missing parts on the trunk lid and what seems to be a shine to the finish, is this a fresh paint job. If so, my opinion is that I would not want to pay more for the painting as you have no idea how the prep work was done, and if the paint was only done to increase the sale price, you could have many problems with it.

John

[FLYER15015]

Dave,

Yes, now that I look at the gauges closely, they definitely need a "redo". Speedo looks o.k. but both side dial faces could stand a repair or replace. You know this means unplugging most of the underdash wiring, and in the case of the temp gauge, pulling the capillary tube from the back of the head. A scarry thought at best.... But many of us have done it.

I see a radio delete plate in the center, but radios come up quite often, and there are modern replacements available too.

The plastic for the throttle is also missing, and the bezel for the ign switch. Clock needs a new face also, but the engine turned panels look good.

Headliner material does not look "stock" but the right material is available, and you could use the old one as a pattern.

The trunk lights (turn signals) can be found here in the crowd @ BCA.

Just based on what I see, I would be in the 8k max range, if she ran real well, and the tires were good.

What she is worth depends on weather this is the year/make/model you really want.

Are you buying a driver, a show car or something to flip ? It makes a real difference in the enthusiasm you put into the project and the investment decisions you will have to make once you get her home.

Mike in Colorado

[Dave_B]

John, I saw the the turn signal parts in the glove box, but I don't know why they were removed. The paint job didn't look very recent but not original for sure as there was slight over spray on the window trim. The car is not keep under cover, it's just sitting out in the parking area of the gas station where I found it. I checked the package shelf and saw no signs of water infiltration, same for the windshield.

As Bob/bobj49f2 suggested in a previous thread I looked for damage from leaking at the back side windows. It looked good there too.

One more thing, one of the running boards is missing the rubber. Is that available anywhere? I don't see it at Bob's or Cars.

Dave

[Dave_B]

Mike,

We are at $7,500 right now but I'm sensing some desperation and softness in the price. The tires are showing some dry rot cracking so they will need to be replaced. Tubes also possibly.

I really wanted a 36-38 but the only one I found was way rougher than this car and the guy is asking $9,950. If I buy the 40 I would get it straightened out and drive it till I find the 36-38 I really want, then sell it.

Oh and what is the most common gear ratio on the rear of these cars?

The dream is to drive to the BCA national 2014 in Portland. I know I'm nuts

Dave

Edited December 10, 2012 by Dave_B (see edit history)

[1939_Buick]

,,,,Oh and what is the most common gear ratio on the rear of these cars?....

4.4. Have a look here http://forums.aaca.org/f165/41-century-3-9-rear-fitting-341406.html

[Guest gossir00]

All the above are good observations of what the car will need to be a good "driver". One other area may need attention- the wiring. Looks old /worn from the pictures. A new complete wiring harness will cost between $800-1200. Count on a full day of labor to install. Also if you get the engine to run check the water pump- if the water color in the rad is as you say the pump , which is a ball bearing type, may be on its way out. Not terribly expensive ($150) and can take up to a day to install. Have you looked for leaks underneath the car? If not look for trans leaks- cost of new trans gaskets not much however labor can be a few days since have to pull entire torque tube and rear end. Also while underneath check rear wheel seals for leaks-- not expensive parts but half day labor. And lastly check for leaks at steering box- I could not find rebuild kit for my '40 and had to fabricate gaskets.

If one was looking to fix up for a driver and sell in the near future eg 2yrs purchase price should be $5-6k.

Good luck

Rick G.

BCA #45471

[egor]

I bought a 38-41 in better condition, that I sold some time ago, when the market was stronger for $5K. A recent paint job on a car in that condition isn't a good sign; it was probably intended to cover up problems. $5K max, more like $4-4.5K would be appropriate, especially if you want to turn it and buy a 36-38. BTW, I'm planning to sell my Corot Beige 38-41 in the near future. Send me an email at saa820@gmail. com and I'll shoot you some photos. It's also pictured in the Bugle 1938 feature (2008, but I can't recall the month), along with a short article.

[FLYER15015]

Dave,

If you are planning on driving a '40 Buick from D.C. to Portland, you must plan on at least doubling that 7.5K, 'cause you are now talking a rebuilt motor, tx, rear end, plus all the cosmetics, and I would leave early........

You could come out to Colorado and pick up Sandy's (OCM) '33 90 series limo, but 15K would not even be a decent downpayment.

It may take some searching, but I recently saw a green '40 4 door for sale out east, Long Island I think, maybe NY. The price seemed reasonable, and it looked to be in good shape. You might want to look around a bit more.

Just my $ ,02. And worth every penny.........

Mike in Colorado

[Dave_B]

Here are some more pics the seller took today as he was working on getting it together. The floor metal and the frame look decent.

Dave

[FLYER15015]

Dave,

I'm liking what I'm seeing underneath. The front suspension arms aren't all crudded up with grease and oil. A sign the front seal is tight.

The frame and sheet metal just takes a bit of wire brushing and some rattle can Rustoleum satin black, to make it look nice.

Question, how are the shocks ? Rears are about 175.00 ea and the fronts are 225.00 ea for rebuilding costs. That is if you take them off. Rears are easy, and fronts are a pain.....

Have you checked the flywheel cover for oil drips ? That's where the rear seal will drain into.

Mike in Colorado

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Dave, looking better all the time. Tranny and rear are probably ok. Get him as low as you can and go for it. I would if I was there.

Ben

[Dave_B]

Thanks Ben, doin' my best. Just sold the 48 Willys so that will help pay for this one. That is.....if we can come to an agreement.

side bar: I hadn't started the jeep in over a year and so I think it was time to let it to go. I needed to start it in order to take some pics. I hooked up the jump cables and put a little gas in the carb and that mud-sucker started right up. Ran like a top on that year old gas too. Sorry to see the 'ol rust bucket go. It didn't last 24 hours on Craigslist.

Mike, I'm going to look at the '40 again tomorrow morning while he still has it on the lift. and I will check the flywheel cover, the trans and u-joint for leaks.

When I was there on Saturday I grabbed the front fender and pulled it up and down till I had the car bouncing up and down pretty good and let go. eh..... the shocks got a C-

Dave

[FLYER15015]

Dave,

A good shock fix is motorcycle fork oil with "sealer" in it mixed w/ STP 75/25 if it's not too bad.

When you get under her you will know instantly if they are leaking from the shaft.

Mike in Colorado