REATTA MARKETPLACE INQUIRY

[Guest BJM]

Not sure if this retread of past posts will get much buzz but here goes.

I recently purchased a 1990 Red/Tan Reatta convertible and it re-energized my continuous interest in all things Reatta. I basically don't want to go too far to purchase one so my Craigs List searches are midwestern and Texas based.

I am finding a lot of $500 to $1000 Reattas that clearly need restoration but many are decent projects. I literally can not purchase them all. I know one thing about Reattas is that many buyers like the fact that they can buy a running/driving "dream" car that they wanted when they first saw them on showroom floors for $25,000 but could not justify a 2 seater purchase.

It seems that there is (zero) 0 buzz about restoring and/or maintaining these sad used Reattas. Anybody except Marck (for parts) buying these for some good end? Or are we seeing a TON of Reattas going to the crusher in what appears to be a 1-4 year vacuum never to be salvaged again?

I may be myopic and not seeing the big picture. The Reatta community and Reatta Division may not have members active on the forum who are trying to purchase these cars.

I have a lady in Fort Worth Texas wanting me to buy her 1990 Red/Tan for $500 or she needs it to go to the crusher. I have seen about 10 on Craigs list for $2300 or less, many in unique color combinations, with no interest. I bid on a rare Driftwood coupe on ebay that never reached reserve. What sent me over the edge was the re-post of the Silver/Blue 1988 from 2011 just updated here where the seller of a 123,000 mile car wants $900/offer or it's getting crushed! (and yes I emailed him with interest),On and on.

When is the last time someone not named Keith or Bryan (Jake) purchased a Reatta on this forum and let us know?

I know we all crave the 50,000 mile primo codition coupe or convertible for a nice price, but the sucking sound you hear is are the u-pick yards picking up Reattas never to return to circulation.....

Prices may increase if fewer cars are available - but - in my opinion, I would rather see larger Reatta gatherings then smaller ones. And like some endangered species of animals, rare colors/combinations may become extinct.

Edited September 3, 2012 by BJM (see edit history)

[Bushwack]

Not sure if this retread of past posts will get much buzz but here goes.

I recently purchased a 1990 Red/Tan Reatta convertible and it re-energized my continuous interest in all things Reatta. I basically don't want to go too far to purchase one so my Craigs List searches are midwestern and Texas based.

I am finding a lot of $500 to $1000 Reattas that clearly need restoration but many are decent projects. I literally can not purchase them all. I know one thing about Reattas is that many buyers like the fact that they can buy a running/driving "dream" car that they wanted when they first saw them on showroom floors for $25,000 but could not justify a 2 seater purchase.

It seems that there is (zero) 0 buzz about restoring and/or maintaining these sad used Reattas. Anybody except Marck (for parts) buying these for some good end? Or are we seeing a TON of Reattas going to the crusher in what appears to be a 1-4 year vacuum never to be salvaged again?

I may be myopic and not seeing the big picture. The Reatta community and Reatta Division may not have members active on the forum who are trying to purchase these cars.

I have a lady in Fort Worth Texas wanting me to buy her 1990 Red/Tan for $500 or she needs it to go to the crusher. I have seen about 10 on Craigs list for $2300 or less, many in unique color combinations, with no interest. I bid on a rare Driftwood coupe on ebay that never reached reserve. What sent me over the edge was the re-post of the Silver/Blue 1988 from 2011 just updated here where the seller of a 123,000 mile car wants $900/offer or it's getting crushed! (and yes I emailed him with interest),On and on.

When is the last time someone not named Keith or Bryan (Jake) purchased a Reatta on this forum and let us know?

I know we all crave the 50,000 mile primo codition coupe or convertible for a nice price, but the sucking sound you hear is are the u-pick yards picking up Reattas never to return to circulation.....

Prices may increase if fewer cars are available - but - in my opinion, I would rather see larger Reatta gatherings then smaller ones. And like some endangered species of animals, rare colors/combinations may become extinct.

I hear what you're saying. But a part of me relishes that sucking sound of a Reatta going to a crusher (especially those beyond economic salvation). If the fewer Reattas on the road means my cars will appreciate a bit more, then I don't mind a few being turned into widgets or beer cans.

Today, you can't restore a Reatta without losing money. Reattas have lost significant value the past few months and I don't see their value rising anytime soon. If you take a $1,000 Reatta that needs another $1,000 in repairs to make it road worthy, then what you're often left with is....a $2,000 aesthetic embarrassment. Personally, I don't want to see $2,000 Reattas on the road. It does more harm then good to the Reatta brand.

BTW...Just as a reference, take a look at the asking price on the window and this car's selling price - Buick : Reatta Base Coupe 2-Door in Buick | eBay Motors

Edited September 4, 2012 by Bushwack (see edit history)

[NCReatta]

I tend to agree with Ervin. A lot of Reattas became just another used car. Too used and abused to become anything other than a parts car. I sent five cars to the crusher last month, and probably sending one or two more this month. I just picked up a '90 coupe with 102k miles. It is so beat up you'd like it had closer to 300,000. If these cars get into the wrong hands, they decline very quickly. I see some people buying these cars to restore (they're my customers), but many times people will get into to them, find out how much work they really need and then just call me and say "come get it". I beg to differ a little on Ervin's statement that you can't restore a Reatta without loosing money. You first have to buy the right car (preferably a convertible). You also have to buy it at the right price. Pay too much and your profit's out the window. There are some people restoring them out there. Just not a ton.

[Guest Corvanti]

I hear what you're saying. But a part of me relishes that sucking sound of a Reatta going to a crusher (especially those beyond economic salvation). If the fewer Reattas on the road means my cars will appreciate a bit more, then I don't mind a few being turned into widgets or beer cans.

Today, you can't restore a Reatta without losing money. Reattas have lost significant value the past few months and I don't see their value rising anytime soon. If you take a $1,000 Reatta that needs another $1,000 in repairs to make it road worthy, then what you're often left with is....a $2,000 aesthetic embarrassment. Personally, I don't want to see $2,000 Reattas on the road. It does more harm then good to the Reatta brand.

as i've kinda said before, your logic is crap!!!:mad:

heck, they are just turning 25 years old next year - where most "classic" car shows have their cutoff date...

when more reattae are seen there in the next few years, there will be a rise in worth, as more folks will see a unique vehicle worth purchasing. do you have a clue in how many rust buckets in years past have been restored to award winning classics?

when i take my "parts car" (as you've called my kind before), to the gas station to fill up, i get folks coming up to me to ask about it - no, not as many as when i had my '63 avanti, but enough to make it pleasurable to talk about her and share the "reatta story"...

i could go on about so many vehicles that are basically gone now to the crusher in the 70's and 80's. they are "rare", but nobody cares!

mods, please delete my post if deemed necessary.

[Guest my3buicks]

There are to many really nice ones out there for decent money - if you buy one of the "fixer-uppers" you quickly add up the $$$ where you could have bought the much better car and even at that point the better car is still a better car.

[Bushwack]

as i've kinda said before, your logic is crap!!!:mad:

heck, they are just turning 25 years old next year - where most "classic" car shows have their cutoff date...

when more reattae are seen there in the next few years, there will be a rise in worth, as more folks will see a unique vehicle worth purchasing. do you have a clue in how many rust buckets in years past have been restored to award winning classics?

when i take my "parts car" (as you've called my kind before), to the gas station to fill up, i get folks coming up to me to ask about it - no, not as many as when i had my '63 avanti, but enough to make it pleasurable to talk about her and share the "reatta story"...

i could go on about so many vehicles that are basically gone now to the crusher in the 70's and 80's. they are "rare", but nobody cares!

mods, please delete my post if deemed necessary.

...and I think you're looney!

Too tired to strengthen my position (and tear yours down), but there are several cars with similar DNA (in their own right) as the Reatta greater than 25 yrs old and they have not found favor in the collector market (just as the Reatta has not found favor among collectors).

I'll leave you with a recent purchase I made - a 1979 Pontiac Sunbird Formula. Paint in terrific shape. IP is good but needs new seats and carpet. Engine will remain but needs work (new water pump, radiator, etc). The car was in storage since 1987.

480,000 Sunbirds were made between 1976-1980 but so few in 1979 were Formulas equipped with a 305 V8 (1979 was the only year a V8 was available). This car screams 'collector' even in its present condition (it's a 7 on a scale to 10). It has taken me about 2 years just to find one for sale - and that's not because others are keeping theirs up on blocks ready for the next collector car boom. These cars met the shredder...and I bought this one for a song. Why??? IMO, there's no collective body (i.e. car club) that has embraced the car.

The masses don't care about 25...30...35+ years. The number really doesn't make a car more collectable than another. The only chances the Reatta has in gaining collectable status and appreciate (as it should) is if there are fewer on the road AND there's a car club to promote the brand. Chance #1 will occur through natural attrition. As for Chance #2,....don't get me started!!! :mad:

[Guest BJM]

I guess I should clarify a little. Except for a rare few cars, ANY old car restored will be "upside down". I know, I have restored several and have 4 in various stages of restoration now. That was not my point. So, let's assume a person purchases a Reatta to restore as I am hoping to do with a coupe.

I purchase for $1000, runs and drives but is tired and in need of the Reatta vendors.

1. What else can you get for $1000? Most of the older stuff costs more and is usually in far worse condition.

2. Reatta parts cost I think are actually cheaper right now because of the large number being parted out or available to part out.

3. Garage space. It's pretty darn easy to garage a Reatta, tear into it and have plenty of room to work around it. Compare that to my 73 Centurion coupe where the hood is 4 feet long and weighs so much I had to build a dolly to move it! (By the way, the 73 Centurion is one of those under full restoration that will surely be upside down when done)

4. Post restoration enjoyment. If one keeps looking for and purchasing the low mileage ones, then most of these "restoration projects" will get crushed. However, the low mileage ones will eventually add mileage as we tend to exercise the Reattas and even if we don't that much, the parts will become "old". On the other hand, if you restore a Reatta you 1. get to know their construction intimitely and 2. can proceed with enjoyment KNOWING the mechanicals will be reliable, same as 1966 Mustang that gets restored. That is part of the purpose of restoration, 1 is appearance and 2 is to build in reliability for driving enjoyment.

5. The Reatta body is a breeze to work on compared to my h-u-g-e 73 Centurion, 70 Wildcat, etc. Also, you buy a Reatta with a high end of, what? $10,000 value. Tear into it, this is the essence of amateur restoration circa 1970 when guys and gals would pull cars they thought were cool into the garage and do the best they could. No need for a "trailer queen" and the Reatta is perfect for that.

If you are restoring a Corvette that will be judged according to their ridiculous high standards then you wring your hands over every little detail.

But because a Reatta is a just a cool special interest collectible, try it yourself. It will still be fine and you will have the fun of restoring it yourself (see also point #4, mechanical reliability)

I thought about my post over night and was going to delete it. I had 2nd thoughts about maybe appearing to chastice those folks that are not buying Reattas for what I see as a good reason. Hey it's a big hobby and we should and can buy what we want BUT I fear seeing far less Reattas on the road in 10 years and I believe that's a bad thing.

Marck said, he has just sent 5 to the crusher with 2 more set to go. I know of 2-3 locally in the yards and another 5 in Craigs List ads that are threatening the same. This is a large attrition rate at a key point in the curve. I am 48, so I know from experience how the 70's and 80's cars dried up almost overnight. That's kind of what I am worried about.

Edited September 4, 2012 by BJM (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

I hear what you're saying. But a part of me relishes that sucking sound of a Reatta going to a crusher (especially those beyond economic salvation). If the fewer Reattas on the road means my cars will appreciate a bit more, then I don't mind a few being turned into widgets or beer cans.

Today, you can't restore a Reatta without losing money. Reattas have lost significant value the past few months and I don't see their value rising anytime soon. If you take a $1,000 Reatta that needs another $1,000 in repairs to make it road worthy, then what you're often left with is....a $2,000 aesthetic embarrassment. Personally, I don't want to see $2,000 Reattas on the road. It does more harm then good to the Reatta brand.

BTW...Just as a reference, take a look at the asking price on the window and this car's selling price - Buick : Reatta Base Coupe 2-Door in Buick | eBay Motors

Ervin

Looked at that 1991 I think on Craigs Link about 3 weeks ago, maybe a different car but I don't think so. Looks suspect to me, missing one of the letters in back, seats covered with cheapo covers? Paint job looks weak already, or too bright. Actually, bidding is trong for that car price and number of bids so that should encourage you. Because of it's rarity, I think it's a $3500 to $4250 car, so we will see where it lands.

[Ronnie]

I hear what you're saying. But a part of me relishes that sucking sound of a Reatta going to a crusher (especially those beyond economic salvation). If the fewer Reattas on the road means my cars will appreciate a bit more, then I don't mind a few being turned into widgets or beer cans.

Today, you can't restore a Reatta without losing money. Reattas have lost significant value the past few months and I don't see their value rising anytime soon. If you take a $1,000 Reatta that needs another $1,000 in repairs to make it road worthy, then what you're often left with is....a $2,000 aesthetic embarrassment. Personally, I don't want to see $2,000 Reattas on the road. It does more harm then good to the Reatta brand.

BTW...Just as a reference, take a look at the asking price on the window and this car's selling price - Buick : Reatta Base Coupe 2-Door in Buick | eBay Motors

If you feel that way why didn't you send this car to the crusher? It's a car that you admit owning and are now recommending that no one buy. Your post suggests that all of us low budget guys should be crushing our cars to drive up the price of yours. When it comes to your money you don't practice what you preach.

If I remember some of your old posts correctly, you purchased this car and found out the problems it had and you dumped it on someone else. Obviously you don't think the car is worthy of being on the street or you wouldn't recommend that no one buy it. Why didn't you crush it to drive up the price of your other cars?

I guess next you would like me to take down my website to make it harder for the low budget guys to keep their cars on the road.

I think your whole philosophy about Reatta ownership is very self centered and is totally ridiculous. I just hope there aren't too many more people out there that have the same mentality. If there are, maybe you guys could start your own Reatta club and leave the rest of us normal people out of your twisted sense of reality.

You give the Reatta club hell for doing a sorry job and then you make posts like this that only serve to drive Reatta owners apart. Very hypocritical if you ask me.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Guest Corvanti]

...and I think you're looney!

Too tired to strengthen my position (and tear yours down), but there are several cars with similar DNA (in their own right) as the Reatta greater than 25 yrs old and they have not found favor in the collector market (just as the Reatta has not found favor among collectors).

I'll leave you with a recent purchase I made - a 1979 Pontiac Sunbird Formula. Paint in terrific shape. IP is good but needs new seats and carpet. Engine will remain but needs work (new water pump, radiator, etc). The car was in storage since 1987.

480,000 Sunbirds were made between 1976-1980 but so few in 1979 were Formulas equipped with a 305 V8 (1979 was the only year a V8 was available). This car screams 'collector' even in its present condition (it's a 7 on a scale to 10). It has taken me about 2 years just to find one for sale - and that's not because others are keeping theirs up on blocks ready for the next collector car boom. These cars met the shredder...and I bought this one for a song. Why??? IMO, there's no collective body (i.e. car club) that has embraced the car.

The masses don't care about 25...30...35+ years. The number really doesn't make a car more collectable than another. The only chances the Reatta has in gaining collectable status and appreciate (as it should) is if there are fewer on the road AND there's a car club to promote the brand. Chance #1 will occur through natural attrition. As for Chance #2,....don't get me started!!! :mad:

if you want to make personal attacks - go for it! a statement of your logic process as "being crap" isn't. and remembering some of your previous posts just confirms it.

your egocentric thoughts (and as Ronnie said), selling what you would call a "parts car" - for profit, no doubt - betray you.

the sunbird you mention is another example. the sunbird/chevy monza are rare basically since if you take it out of a dry climate (i lived in so-cal for 36 years -til 1986), you can "watch" it rust away... a "rare" car does not necessarily make it valuable - unless, of course, you say it is - and so you can profit from your investment.

a 76 caddy eldo convertible is a prime example. "collectors" bought these in droves and stored them away as an investment since it was going to be "the last convertible". not worth a whole lot now! 1976 Cadillac Eldorado | eBay

i'd say a great majority of "classic" (or soon to be "classic") car owners would love to see their vehicles increase in value. most of that same majority and others just love their cars and the HOBBY!!!

will the reatta become a collectible classic? i hope so. over supply is not the issue - it's the lack of demand! how to increase demand? get them on the road, show them at multi-make car shows, etc. - "sell" the hobbyist on why they should consider a reatta!

[Guest BJM]

I would prefer that there be no personal attacks, just observations that maybe you don't agree with a position and why.

Look, I can not afford about 85% of the old cars I would love to have. I am 48, life is too short. Like Keith, and many of us, when the Reattas came out I put nose and fingerprints on side glass of new ones on dealer lots lusting and wanting. The price - before GM abandoned them and prices dropped to get rid of inventory - was $25,000 to $32,000. I could not afford one. I am just thankful I can add a couple to my collection.

Why would anyone who simply loves the car, care if it increases in value, especially due to scarcity? Not sure I get the logic. I don't buy cars as "speculation" like those folks did when they bought those 76 Eldorado convertibles. Those are not collectors of cars for the purpose of hobby enjoyment, those are folks in it for profit and money. Perhaps Bushwack's in that category, and that's fine, one side's opinion.

[2seater]

I can see both sides of the (discussion) argument, but I probably line up on the side that just enjoys cars, for the simple pleasure of my own handiwork and something you don't see everyday. I guess I don't have much affinity for the speculator/investor locking stuff away and removing it from it's true purpose. I guess the ultimate for some would be to see them all gone and to own the only one left, but that just seems selfish to me. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I always thought this forum was to help keep these cars on the road and useful, with a smattering of restoration/investment thrown in, but that's just me. Just for context, my first brand new car, ordered from the factory, was a 1975 AMC Pacer. As you can see, my point of view may not be mainstream, but I wish I still had it.

Edited September 4, 2012 by 2seater (see edit history)

[DAVES89]

Quote from the movie "Tombstone" "Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves boys? After all this just a mining camp"

It is an interesting read some of the comments regarding the two factions that appear to be forming.

We have the daily driver grade and then the elitest. This forum [and Ronnies] is really for the daily driver category. What is surprising to me is that while most of the elitest crowd wants fewer of these cars on the road, they don't see the contradiction of coming here and asking the very same daily driver guys how to keep their cars roadworthy or buy parts to keep their cars running at their best.

My car just turned 200k yesterday. Pretty neat to watch it turn over went from 199999 to 200000 in an instant.

For a while [some years ago] I thought about not driving it and then thought "Why, it is just an '89 Red/tan of which there are about 4000 of" So I am driving it. Besides I use the Red [and the Black] in my sales job and am able to deduct miles. So I figure in the mileage deduction for business which means both my cars are either free or close to it.

I'm a "junker" and buy my parts cheap and keep them looking nice with the occasional paint touch up [which is important in my job].

So put me in the "daily driver" bunch.

I have said it before, the Reatta is an easy car to buy and a hard one to sell. easy to buy because there are so few buyers out there to compete with. hard to sell because there are so few buyers out there.

It will be interesting to watch this one play out.

Edited September 4, 2012 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[handmedownreatta]

quote. the sunbird you mention is another example. the sunbird/chevy monza are rare basically since if you take it out of a dry climate (i lived in so-cal for 36 years -til 1986), you can "watch" it rust away... a "rare" car does not necessarily make it valuable - unless, of course, you say it is - and so you can profit from your investment.quote

i remember the monza 2+2 and its buick sister car[starfire]? but i haven't seen one in years.they were cool looking cars.the reason that most reattas look so bad is that its so expensive to get a car painted these days.mines in pretty good shape except for the paint.

ive parked mine at cruise ins and watched it.noone even looks at it.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

My car just turned 200k yesterday. Pretty neat to watch it turn over went from 199999 to 200000 in an instant.

Congrats on Betty's milestone. Just think, in another 10K miles you can take her out to the bar and buy her a drink of high test!

[Bushwack]

If you feel that way why didn't you send this car to the crusher? It's a car that you admit owning and are now recommending that no one buy. Your post suggests that all of us low budget guys should be crushing our cars to drive up the price of yours. When it comes to your money you don't practice what you preach.

If I remember some of your old posts correctly, you purchased this car and found out the problems it had and you dumped it on someone else. Obviously you don't think the car is worthy of being on the street or you wouldn't recommend that no one buy it. Why didn't you crush it to drive up the price of your other cars?

I guess next you would like me to take down my website to make it harder for the low budget guys to keep their cars on the road.

I think your whole philosophy about Reatta ownership is very self centered and is totally ridiculous. I just hope there aren't too many more people out there that have the same mentality. If there are, maybe you guys could start your own Reatta club and leave the rest of us normal people out of your twisted sense of reality.

You give the Reatta club hell for doing a sorry job and then you make posts like this that only serve to drive Reatta owners apart. Very hypocritical if you ask me.

Ronnie,

As for the Reatta posted on eBay, I mentioned it as a courtesy to those in the forum. From what I know of the car, the seller could be more forthright (IMO) and I wouldn’t like to see a fellow Reatta enthusiast be mis-lead. Suggesting a potential buyer who reads this forum to look at the undercarriage is nothing but sound advice given.

As for giving the Reatta Division ‘hell’, that’s my right as a member (based on our last phone call, I don’t think you’re a member of the RDiv. Correct me if I’m wrong). As a member, I have a voice and the RDiv has an obligation to listen. They don’t have to act on my suggestions/criticisms, but they’re obliged to listen. Side note: "Hell" is a terrible word to use in your context. If you're a board member of an entity that collects money, you should embrace 'constructive criticism' and be thankful for the participation.

I have nothing to defend or apologize for. Going further, anything I say that’s meant to be constructive will be looked at by Rawja or another moderator as being insulting or degrading (similar to your post).

Suffice it to say we come from different generations and absolutely have different mindsets as it pertains to business, the Reatta and car collectability.

[Guest Corvanti]

different mindsets as it pertains to business, the Reatta and car collectability.

you've said it all in this statement - it's a "business" to you, not a "HOBBY" as most owners think.

i'm not blasting vendors. they are needed. but - sorry to vendors (i've bought parts from some of you, and will again) - they should be identified as such on this forum as in most other car forums. doesn't mean you can't contribute to any discussion just may explain a point of view to replace instead of repair. that's ok, most of the time you are correct!!!

[Bushwack]

Quote from the movie "Tombstone" "Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves boys? After all this just a mining camp"

It is an interesting read some of the comments regarding the two factions that appear to be forming.

We have the daily driver grade and then the elitest. This forum [and Ronnies] is really for the daily driver category. What is surprising to me is that while most of the elitest crowd wants fewer of these cars on the road, they don't see the contradiction of coming here and asking the very same daily driver guys how to keep their cars roadworthy or buy parts to keep their cars running at their best.

My car just turned 200k yesterday. Pretty neat to watch it turn over went from 199999 to 200000 in an instant.

For a while [some years ago] I thought about not driving it and then thought "Why, it is just an '89 Red/tan of which there are about 4000 of" So I am driving it. Besides I use the Red [and the Black] in my sales job and am able to deduct miles. So I figure in the mileage deduction for business which means both my cars are either free or close to it.

I'm a "junker" and buy my parts cheap and keep them looking nice with the occasional paint touch up [which is important in my job].

So put me in the "daily driver" bunch.

I have said it before, the Reatta is an easy car to buy and a hard one to sell. easy to buy because there are so few buyers out there to compete with. hard to sell because there are so few buyers out there.

It will be interesting to watch this one play out.

If you want me to own up to the term ‘elitist’ (of which you’re implying I am one), I will (without being insulted) and with a caveat. I make no apologies to my mindset regarding the Reatta, to my success or my car collection.

With that said, yes – I don’t like seeing run down Reattas on the road. I have no issues with someone who maintains their car whether 2,000 or 200,000+ miles on the car. From looking at a car, a stranger shouldn’t be able to tell what the odometer reading is. That car should look nearly as good as it did off the showroom.

But I do have a gripe with cars that are beaten down with primer spots, visible rust on the fenders or doors, an interior that reminds me of what my dorm room looked like, and so on. If someone wants to buy a $500 car and put another $2,000 into it, that’s their choice. That’s a labor of love and obviously not a sound business decision (of which I am also guilty of). But the fact remains to have the Reatta considered as a bona fide collectable, those crappy cars that will continue to litter the streets should be dismantled for parts and turned into paper clips.

And on a side note, I thank Marck for doing so and admire what he has done. He’s turned a hobby into a profitable business venture (take note, Ronnie). He buys cars that are often beyond repair, sells off the parts, sometimes will then sell the car (to maximize his investment) and when there are no buyers, we all get affordable staples, wire brushes and hangers.

P.S. One of my desires for the Reatta is to make it a collectable. Make is a brand like Corvette, Mustang or even T-Bird. Whether you're an 'elitist' or use your car as a daily driver, every Reatta owner benefits.

[Bushwack]

you've said it all in this statement - it's a "business" to you, not a "HOBBY" as most owners think.

i'm not blasting vendors. they are needed. but - sorry to vendors (i've bought parts from some of you, and will again) - they should be identified as such on this forum as in most other car forums. doesn't mean you can't contribute to any discussion just may explain a point of view to replace instead of repair. that's ok, most of the time you are correct!!!

You're misinterpreting what I said.

I would operate Ronnie's 'business' (web site) much differently then he would. But as for car collecting, no doubt in my mind that it's a business (as well as a hobby). Nobody needs to have 1..5..10+ cars that either are garage queens or see the light of day every few weeks...unless you're a hobbyist. But the majority of hobbyists look at their collection on a business level. It costs money to maintain a car (or collection), doesn't it? And that is being simplistic about it.

[Guest Corvanti]

your definition of "hobbyist" and having a car as a "hobby" to fix, play with, and maybe show at the local "car show" or cruise-in" are totally opposite! your def means buying what others "wished" they had - with multi-garages for their collection.

the "hobby" is purchasing a vehicle you really want, put it the "man-cave" and do what you can to make it better. if you can't do it all and can afford it, maybe "farm" some repairs out to professionals that "know" the vehicle, and do it right.

BTW: Pontiac Sunfire has a forum: http://www.pontiacforum.com/pontiac/forumdisplay.php?f=18

why don't you go over there and see if they want to get their cars crushed so yours will be more desirable?

unless i get another "personal attack" - I AM "looney", or something so off the wall that needs a response, i'm done here.

[Guest Richard D]

QUOTE__Today, you can't restore a Reatta without losing money. Reattas have lost significant value the past few months and I don't see their value rising anytime soon. If you take a $1,000 Reatta that needs another $1,000 in repairs to make it road worthy, then what you're often left with is....a $2,000 aesthetic embarrassment. Personally, I don't want to see $2,000 Reattas on the road. It does more harm then good to the Reatta brand.

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Sorry, but I disagree, I paid $1,600 for my Florida daily driver 1990 coupe, put a $700.00 polyureathane paint job on it and I still get thumbs up and questions about it at car meets and I have less than $2,300.00 in it. Look at my picture and tell me that my car does more harm than good.

The interior is original and does need a steering wheel cover but that is all.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Richard D (see edit history)

[Bushwack]

QUOTE__Today, you can't restore a Reatta without losing money. Reattas have lost significant value the past few months and I don't see their value rising anytime soon. If you take a $1,000 Reatta that needs another $1,000 in repairs to make it road worthy, then what you're often left with is....a $2,000 aesthetic embarrassment. Personally, I don't want to see $2,000 Reattas on the road. It does more harm then good to the Reatta brand.

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Sorry, but I disagree, I paid $1,600 for my Florida daily driver 1990 coupe, put a $700.00 polyureathane paint job on it and I still get thumbs up and questions about it at car meets and I have less than $2,300.00 in it. Look at my picture and tell me that my car does more harm than good.

The interior is original and does need a steering wheel cover but that is all.

Kudos to you!

But where the Reatta market is right now, you'll get about what you put into it (should you sell it). But to you, the car is priceless (as it should be).

[Bushwack]

your definition of "hobbyist" and having a car as a "hobby" to fix, play with, and maybe show at the local "car show" or cruise-in" are totally opposite! your def means buying what others "wished" they had - with multi-garages for their collection.

the "hobby" is purchasing a vehicle you really want, put it the "man-cave" and do what you can to make it better. if you can't do it all and can afford it, maybe "farm" some repairs out to professionals that "know" the vehicle, and do it right.

BTW: Pontiac Sunfire has a forum: http://www.pontiacforum.com/pontiac/forumdisplay.php?f=18

why don't you go over there and see if they want to get their cars crushed so yours will be more desirable?

unless i get another "personal attack" - I AM "looney", or something so off the wall that needs a response, i'm done here.

I disagree with your strict definition of hobbyist. But then let me define who I am - One of my hobbies is car collecting. I also make a hobby of collecting match books, place settings and menus from restaurants, Kangol hats and so on. BTW,... I do 'farm' out the majority of work done on my cars. No shame in that. I am a Reatta vendor's dream cleint.

Thanks for the forum lead on the Sunbird. Unfortunately it's not nearly as valuable as other car forums.

...and don't get emotional - don't go away mad. Because myself or others don't agree with you doesn't mean constructive dialog can't take place.

P.S. I didn't shoot the first arrow (my logic isn't "crap" as you say because my position differs than yours). You lose the debate when you go that route.