Levi's Gremlin

[LINC400]

I have seen Levi's Gremlins before, but they have always had material that looked like blue jeans for seats.

This weekend I saw one that was a green Gremlin X, and said Levi's on the fender. It also had Levi's tags on the seats. However, the seats were black. They were not even jeans type material, but just some sort of unusual black cloth. Did they make Levi's Gremlins with black seats like this, or is someone just putting fake tags on it?

[keiser31]

I believe ALL of the Levis Gremlins had the denim looking seat covers. They either changed the seat covers or added the decals. Some Jeeps also had that trim package. A friend of mine used to own one like this white one....

Edited August 21, 2012 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Guest my3buicks]

period picture

[LINC400]

period picture

Interesting, but the seats didn't look like those either. Those look more like jeans.

The seats I saw looked sort of like the base material used for 2010-12 Camaro seats. A material I described as "the top of cheap mens dress socks", and paid extra to get rid of.

But based on the pic showing it in black, maybe other black variations were available over the years.

[keiser31]

Interesting, but the seats didn't look like those either. Those look more like jeans.

The seats I saw looked sort of like the base material used for 2010-12 Camaro seats. A material I described as "the top of cheap mens dress socks", and paid extra to get rid of.

But based on the pic showing it in black, maybe other black variations were available over the years.

If the material is plain black, they were replaced. If they were denim "looking" with the "LEVI" tag, they are original.

[LINC400]

If the material is plain black, they were replaced. If they were denim "looking" with the "LEVI" tag, they are original.

They actually looked sort of like a ribbed corduroy, but were more nylon-like material. And they did have Levi tags on them. Seems like it would be a wasted effort to sew Levi tags on but use the incorrect fabric. Too bad I didn't have a camera with me.

[TG57Roadmaster]

My brother had a '74 Levi's Gremlin, and it was a very dictinctive interior,

not to be confused with any other.

You could also get the interior in '73 in the new Hornet Hatchback...

The red tabs were on the left hand side of the integral headrest, as on this '73...

This was the color combo of my bro's '74 Gremlin, but it had the huge fore and aft bumpers.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/USAEsoPWeus" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Too bad the color isn't better in the commercial.

Here's a Levi's Hornet Hatchback at the '73 Chicago Auto Show...

I was in high school in Kenosha, WI, from '71-'75, and the city was all AMC, all the time.

How time changed everything!

TG

Edited August 21, 2012 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

When I finally got to see a Levis AMC product, the seat fabric didn't look very much like "the real thing" to me, looked like denim that had been plasticized. I wasn't impressed. This was the "blue denim" version.

Just an observation,

NTX5467

[rocketraider]

Willis, read the fine print in the ad Tommy posted and you will see it says "blue denim nylon trim option". Nylon = plastic. Tough as cotton denim is, I doubt it would have held up long in an automotive application.

I may be dancing madly backwards, but I seem to remember a tan version of it too.

Never understood why 70s AMC products didn't take off. They had great and very identifiable styling by then and with the 360 available in the Hornet, always thought it should have sold better to the go-fast crowd.

[keiser31]

When I finally got to see a Levis AMC product, the seat fabric didn't look very much like "the real thing" to me, looked like denim that had been plasticized. I wasn't impressed. This was the "blue denim" version.

Just an observation,

NTX5467

The seats in my friend's Jeep were like that.....kinda funky looking, too.

[Dave@Moon]

Never understood why 70s AMC products didn't take off. They had great and very identifiable styling by then and with the 360 available in the Hornet, always thought it should have sold better to the go-fast crowd.

Find a copy of Patrick Foster's book American Motors, The Last Independent. It's a very easy read that is a lot more thorough in it's analysis of what happened to AMC than it might appear (particularly after 1973, their last really good year). Most people blame the Pacer (which ultimately did earn a small profit), but he puts forth a VERY good argument that the 1974 Matador/Ambassador line is what effectively killed the company.

However being in a position where one mistake could kill the company (or at least it's independence prior to being partnered with Renault) was probably the real sin. They got that way by neglecting their core market (high end compacts) after 1964, with only one model change (Hornet in 1970, renamed Concord in 1978) over 22 years (4WD Spirit models with the same body notwithstanding). Meanwhile money was dumped into losers like the Matador(s) and (forgive me) 2nd generation Javelin. There were other mistakes as well, especially selling inferior models to fleet buyers (U.S.P.S. & U.S. military especially, because they could get away with it) that soured millions on AMC quality.

My first 2 cars were 1969 Ambassadors, one of which my father bought new. There was nothing to fault in them, or any other consumer product of the company. And when you compare by price with competing GM/Ford/Mopar models it's a wonder why they didn't take over the market..., until (see above).

[Guest Skyking]

Never understood why 70s AMC products didn't take off. They had great and very identifiable styling by then and with the 360 available in the Hornet, always thought it should have sold better to the go-fast crowd.

I special ordered a new Hornet SST in 1972 with the 304 option. It was a fast and great car! Another car I wish I kept!!

The late George Mason was the brain behind AMC

Edited August 22, 2012 by Skyking (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

My first 2 cars were 1969 Ambassadors, one of which my father bought new. There was nothing to fault in them, or any other consumer product of the company. And when you compare by price with competing GM/Ford/Mopar models it's a wonder why they didn't take over the market..., until (see above).

In 1977 my father took a second job as a real estate salesman for a firm that required he buy (with substantial financial backing from them) a white, full-sze station wagon with woodgrain trim. The brand was of his choosing, although above a certain amount he had to pick up 100% of the tab. At the time AMC Matador wagons could be had for a relative song, and I specifically recall trying to talk him into looking at a year-end deal on one advertised for $4850.00 (about $2000.00 off sticker) that matched everything he needed and was otherwise loaded to the hilt. He told me, "Son, if I showed up with an AMC they'd probably fire me." He was serious. This was a man that 8 years earlier had bought an Ambassador new, and was so happy with it he bought another one used in 1974.

Such was the loss of reputation that AMC endured.

Instead my dad bought a 1977 Buick Estate Wagon, loaded to the hilt, on a year-end deal for $7800.00 (about $2000.00 off sticker, it took a full 2 hours of negotiating). Buying a new Buick was a lifelong dream for my Dad, who grew up quite poor. The car was an unreliable pig, and was sold as soon as possible at a huge loss (50% in 2 years). For only the 2nd time in his life I saw my dad cry watching the new owner drive it away. For the next 12 years he drove Japanese cars.

[Guest Skyking]

In 1977 my father took a second job as a real estate salesman for a firm that required he buy (with substantial financial backing from them) a white, full-sze station wagon with woodgrain trim. The brand was of his choosing, although above a certain amount he had to pick up 100% of the tab. At the time AMC Matador wagons could be had for a relative song, and I specifically recall trying to talk him into looking at a year-end deal on one advertised for $4850.00 (about $2000.00 off sticker) that matched everything he needed and was otherwise loaded to the hilt. He told me, "Son, if I showed up with an AMC they'd probably fire me." He was serious. This was a man that 8 years earlier had bought an Ambassador new, and was so happy with it he bought another one used in 1974.

Such was the loss of reputation that AMC endured.

Instead my dad bought a 1977 Buick Estate Wagon, loaded to the hilt, on a year-end deal for $7800.00 (about $2000.00 off sticker, it took a full 2 hours of negotiating). Buying a new Buick was a lifelong dream for my Dad, who grew up quite poor. The car was an unreliable pig, and was sold as soon as possible at a huge loss (50% in 2 years). For only the 2nd time in his life I saw my dad cry watching the new owner drive it away. For the next 12 years he drove Japanese cars.

Dave, I also bought a one year old 1977 Matador, a Barcelona Coupe. Great looking & comfortable car but nonetheless, a pig! Your dad probably was still ahead of the game with the Buick. I had a ton of problems with that car. But all in all as to this day, I stayed clear of Japanese cars.

[Sweepspear]

My best friend owned a Levi Gremlin in the early 80's. I remember it garnered a lot of attention from the ladies because it was "Cute".

Instead my dad bought a 1977 Buick Estate Wagon, loaded to the hilt, on a year-end deal for $7800.00 (about $2000.00 off sticker, it took a full 2 hours of negotiating). Buying a new Buick was a lifelong dream for my Dad, who grew up quite poor. The car was an unreliable pig, and was sold as soon as possible at a huge loss (50% in 2 years). For only the 2nd time in his life I saw my dad cry watching the new owner drive it away. For the next 12 years he drove Japanese cars.

It was a '77 Olds 98 that made my Father swear off GM cars and drive Hondas for well over 10 years.

The last car he owned was a '96 Buick Park Avenue though.

[NTX5467]

Thanks for pointing out the part of the ad I didn't see, rocketraider.

When I took driver's ed in '67, many of us wanted to choose the instructor by the car he'd been issued. I ended up with a great instructor, who'd been issued a new Ambassador 4-dr sedan. The year before, he'd had a Plymouth Fury. The Ambassador was a nice, comfortable, and adequately-powered car. At the time, it would have fit well in almost any driveway in the country.

Our local police dept purchased several '76 Matador sedans, dark blue metallic. They all had 360 motors, so they ran pretty good. NO problem catching people, either. They certainly held up better than the Pontiac LeMans sedans that replaced them!

One of my friends had a '66 Rambler Classic 4-dr sedan that he used to drive to work. Normal 6 cyl w/automatic car. Performance was lackluster, at best. Handling was better than I figured it would be, though. Held up very well, too. His other car at the time was a '78 Z-28. He later sold the Rambler to get money for another car project he had going.

Starting in '65, it seemed that AMC had some nicely-styled cars, especially the Ambassador. The Javelin was different, as was the Gremlin, but not too "far out". Yet, the 2nd Gen Javelin DID get a little too far out "there" for me, especially the instrument panel. Saving grace was the performance options as NOBODY every considered AMC to build "hot rods", but how wrong they came to be. Most didn't know that a few Rambler Ambassadors in '58 had the Bendix ElectroJector option on them, nor that Rambler had their 327 4bbl V-8 back then, either.

It was obvious that AMC's design team was not in Detroit, from the way they designed things. More simplistic in nature, typically, with just enough "glitz and glitter" to look "comparable". The compact cars were still there, with the American being the lowest-priced car at the time (with ONLY standard equipment), but it seemed that it was the larger cars that got the publicity.

We were an AMC-Jeep-Renault dealer for about a year, starting in '82. I'd known that AMC sourced their parts from many locations, but what we got included Motorcraft, AC-Delco, Prestolite, etc. . . . PLUS a Gremlin gas cap assy. And then there was the Renault Fuego! Fully-electronic automatic transmission, to boot. I thought about getting one, UNTIL I discovered the "special tool" jacking pucks as there were no approved jacking locations other than the rocker panel pinchweld (the pucks had a slot cut in them just for that pinchweld to fit into, on the jack's saddle). If I couldn't use a floor jack under it, I didn't want it.

During that time frame, AMC-J-R was in a dealership expansion mode. I took an extra microfiche reader (for parts) to the Dallas Zone Office so they could transfer it to another new dealer. When I walked in, it was 1962 all over again. Black and white "checked" floor tiles. Oak cubicles with frosted glass "offices" in the middle of the big room with the black and white tile. I grinned!

A year later, it was all over for us. We'd saturated the market for Jeep CJ-7s, had awd "Hornet" station wagons on the lot, great Jeep Grand Wagoneers for the luxury off-road people, etc. So, end of that situation.

I don't know that it was the Matador that killed AMC, per se. I believe it was the fact that they were not quite in the mainstream already, and got pushed a little farther off-course with the Pacer and 2nd Gen Javelin. They had some neat vehicles with intersting styling. But also vehicles that had ceased to be "easy to work on". There were some unsophicated things like the York a/c compressor, but it seemed they matched the other Detroit brands on normal luxury options for the time. But it also seemed that the cars didn't have the "substance" of the earlier ones OR of the Detroit brands. It seemed, from the sidelines, that they were stretching their resources very thin, and managing to still come out reasonably decent in the process. But it was also apparent they didn't have the financial resources for the competitive models needed for the future . . . kind of like Studebaker a decade earlier.

I suspect that when AMC got "Jeep'd", that was going to be their "cash flow". Those vehicles weren't expected to change yearly, so there was supposed to be some profits in there, I suspect. Even with all of the super-whiz-bang computer-designed bodies of modern times, I highly suspect that a Jeep Grand Cherokee or Jeep pickup would best ANY and ALL of them for torsional stiffness and solid-ness! PM me for details, if desired.

Oh well . . .

NTX5467

[Dave@Moon]

It was obvious that AMC's design team was not in Detroit, from the way they designed things.

I'm not sure where AMC's design studio was located (Kenosha maybe?), but it was run by a star of Detroit design from 1961 to 1983. Dick Teague ( Richard A. Teague - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) designed or helped design some of the cleanest, most sophisticated American cars ever made despite laughably low budgets. The 1974 Matador, which is a very polarizing design in both coupe and sedan form, is probably the one car associated with him that was the biggest failure.

I don't know that it was the Matador that killed AMC, per se.

Mr. Foster's argument for blaming the Matador (not exclusively, of course, but in large part) is mainly financial. The Matador Coupe was a VERY expensive design for AMC's budget. Effectively they bet the company's finances on a full-size 2-door car of limited practical appeal and...let's just say that it was less than universally praised for it's styling...in 1974 just in time for the first "oil crisis". Worse the design did not age well, meaning that once the novelty wore off sales plunged. They lost a fortune (by AMC standards) on that car, one that they could not hope to recover from. While the Pacer came out a year later, it was designed before the Matador (and was held up awaiting a GM Wankel engine that never materialized). The Matador was the last entirely new car body designed & produced by AMC. The later Concord, Eagle, and Spirit were mild facelifts of earlier designs.

Dick Teague's last design for AMC (that saw production) was the 1984 Cherokee/Wagoneer. Fortunately he was able to retire on a distinct high note.

[The Continental]

I actually like the 2nd gen Javelins. A '71 AMX would be cool.

[rocketraider]

"Son, if I showed up with an AMC they'd probably fire me." He was serious.

Hmm. Guess it was just different areas of the country. A LOT of Realtors around here drove Grand Wagoneers and IHC Travelalls as company vehicles, but they were practical in a largely rural and piedmont area. Strangely they didn't take to GM Suburbans until the 1988 body style change.

[NTX5467]

The "new" Suburban body appeared in the 1992 model year, which was based on the early-introduction 1988 C/K platform pickups. That Suburban sold very well with most dealers having waiting lists for what vehicles the dealers had already ordered for stock. We sold them for $1000.00 over invoice as other local dealers were trying to get sticker for them. Guess who sold the most Suburbans, many of which were already sold before they hit the ground? hehe. And having lots of allocation spots for GM pickups, we had plenty of alloctions for Suburbans, too. Such fun!

The whole deal about what car was popular for realtors had a lot to do with the type of properties the agents sold. EVERYBODY wanted to look successful, but not overly so. Hence, the woodgrained station wagons, for example. And the "No AMC product" orientation. In many respects, a Ford Country Squire wagon was perfect.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[rocketraider]

Heh. Shows how much attention I paid to GM offerings even back then!

The Grand Wagoneer thing may have been influenced by the AMC dealer also having the local Mercedes franchise, so they always passed for more upscale than they probably were. Travelalls? who knows, except that 1) we had a strong Harvester dealership here who moved a lot of tractors as well as trucks, and 2) Travelalls were a little expensive compared to some other comparable vehicles. I don't think the local dealer ever sold one without four wheel drive. Again, lot of farm and rural properties in hill country, so the 4WD was an advantage to a realtor.

[Dave@Moon]

As a state environmental inspector in the 1980s I spent a lot of time driving and riding in Jeep (full size) Cherokees (basically a short wheelbase Grand Wagoneer), International Scouts (and once a Travelall), Chevy Blazers & Suburbans, and one particularly sad/abused full-size Ford Bronco. The AMCs and Internationals were MUCH more "car-like" to drive and ride in than the others at that time, the Chevy Suburbans in particular were noisy/tinny trucks by comparison (although usually more reliable). Personally I always would hold out for the Jeeps. They were so much like driving a car you could get yourself in trouble by forgetting their limitations at times.

I can easily see why a business trying to entertain clients/customers would want to avoid the "truckiness" of the 1973-1991 Suburbans.