414TATA Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hello Pre War Buick owners. I seem to have about 5 - 6" of play in my steering.I installed new Bias ply tires and had an alignment done a few hundred miles back. The steering seems the same as before. Is this amount of play normal? If it isn't what can I do to correct the problem?ThanksWayne1941 Super 51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Wayne, do you have a shop manual? My '50 manual gives good details on this problem. I don't know if yours is same as '50, if so I can scan proper pages for you. Ben P:S No, that much play is not correct, and tires have nothing to do with it. Either steering gear or drag link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v12lincoln Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I just rebuilt my 48 Lincoln steering box, its a Gemmer 2 box which was common on a lot of cars in the late 30s to late 40s. If you take the top plate off and drain the fluid you will be able to see if there is wear on the worm or sector gear, mine had some wear on the sector gear, which is taken up by beating the sector up out of the box after taking the drag link off and using a large plastic hammer so you dont damage the threads, under the gear and between the box is a stack of spacers, remove one ate a time until it takes up the play. If it is a gemmer they also have shims on the bottom plate to adjust the worm gear travel, they look like one solid gasket until you get them apart then you will find anywhere from 2-6 shims, I wouldnt recommend putting less than 2 shims on the bottom plate as it will make the steering very tight and not effect the play if you still have any after the shims under the sector shaft are done. This can all be done with the box in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egor Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 5-6 inches play is a handful. My '38 has about 1 1/2-2 inches play, and when I get in a stiff crosswind (which is frequent here in Nevada) I wish I had less. Get a shop manual (reprints are available at a good price, eBay and elsewhere) and make the adjustments described. It's possible you'll need the steering box rebuilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RonJar Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 That is a lot of play, for sure. Assuming the tie rod ends are good, the first thing I'd check is that the large nut holding the pitman arm on the steering gear is tight. After that, is the drag link OK? Possible broken spring or badly out of adjustment. After you have ruled out the "easy" things, take a look at the steering box. A little more complicated and instructions will be needed if you're not familiar with the steering gear. Good luck to you!RonJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Wayne, we've just rebuilt the steering box on the 39. There are a few things to check. I would suggest getting uner the car with someone moving the steering wheel back and forth to see where the play is coming from and attack it that way. The coupe had a number of issues. Fixing each one made slight improvements. Start with the easy stuff as RonJ says1. Tie rod ends ok?2. King pins and bushings ok?3. Drag link adjusted up tight? (not too tight though, it's sprung to absorb shocks).4. Pitman arm on pitman shaft securely? Ours was worn out, the splines not working well. A new one cured that.5. With the pitman arm off the shaft, can you see hesitation of the shaft when someone is moving the steering left and right?6. Is the pitman shaft moving in the pitman bushings? (best seen with the arm on the shaft)7. Checked for end play of the worm and sector shafts? 8. Adjust steering box backlash as per manual (if there is still adjustment left. We had none!)If there are still issues, you may have to re-kit it with new bearings, bushings and a seal. In our case, we had to get a new worm gear made, and fit a NOS sector shaft. Steers like new now! Search for the threads from earlier this year for all the info!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
414TATA Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Thank GuysAll great ideas to fix my problem.Will work on it.Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick W. Brooks Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hello Pre War Buick owners. I seem to have about 5 - 6" of play in my steering.I installed new Bias ply tires and had an alignment done a few hundred miles back. The steering seems the same as before. Is this amount of play normal? If it isn't what can I do to correct the problem?ThanksWayne1941 Super 51Hello Wayne: I have bought and restored a number of Buicks with the problem you describe. The adjustments normally utilized are for small amounts of play in the steering. The more serious problem you describe is attibuted to a broken spring in what is called the "rod" which attaches to the pitman arm which is at the end of the steering column. Look at the steering linkage diagram in your parts book or maybe it also shows in the shop manual. This rod is loaded with two identical springs which absorb most of the bumps from the road so they do not reach the steering wheel. The rod is under Group #6.230 and the springs 6.255. The first spring absorbs most of the vibration and bumps and I have found it broken and it simply floats in the rod and winds itself up leaving a huge amount of play in the steering wheel. Replacing this spring removes 90% of the play experienced. The threaded plug at the end of the rod is difficult to remove. After removing the cotter key there is a large slot and I have never had any luck removing it with a large screw driver. The plug is always covered with rust, grease and road dirt. I use a short piece of flat metal turned with vise grips and on occasion have had to heat the rod to remove it. After removal the componets come out easily. Buick changed the size of spring at some point. I have some NOS springs of both sizes if you need one. I am 95% certain that this is the problem. After fixing post your findings. Thanks, Patrick W. Brooks:o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The only thing I can add to Patricks post is that there is a socket with a screwdriver tip made for this application. Good luck. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 That socket sounds good Ben! I use a large square shaft screwdriver with a spanner on the shaft to turn it. Does the job, but that socket..........!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RonJar Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Snap-on ToolsI hope the link works, this is a Snap-on draglink adjuster tool, 1/2" drive and comes in three different sizes. I have one, don't need it often but when you do ......RonJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RonJar Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 [TABLE=align: center]<tbody>[TR][TD=width: 6][/TD][TD=width: 485][TABLE]<tbody>[TR][TD]<form method="post" name="itemFrm" action="http://www.snapon.com" lpsubdone="1">Socket, Drag Link, 1 3/16" Blade Width [TABLE]<tbody>[TR=class: classList3][TD=width: 8][/TD][TD=width: 192]Item[/TD][TD=width: 50]Qty[/TD][TD]Price** [/TD][TD=width: 21, align: right][/TD][/TR]</tbody>[/TABLE][TABLE]<tbody>[TR][TD=class: items, width: 200]Socket, Drag Link, 1 3/16" Blade WidthStock#: A15A [/TD][TD=class: qty, width: 39]<input name="qt" value="1" size="2">[/TD][TD=class: price, width: 161]$28.00 [/TD][/TR]</tbody>[/TABLE]</form>[/TD][/TR]</tbody>[/TABLE][/TD][/TR]</tbody>[/TABLE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Thanks RonJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trp3141592 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Hi,Also available in sets of multiple sizes at Amazon.com.Amazon.com: drag link socket: Tools & Home Improvement--Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_bigD Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 This is a great thread. I have always has a lot of slop in the steering of my 1938 Special. I checked the tie rod ends and adjusted the steering box as well as tightening up that steering rod adjustment. I still have 5-6" of free play and always figured that it was my steering box that needed rebuilding. So now I have my winter project to rebuild these steering rods.Patrick, would those springs you have fit a 1938 Special as well? If not would anyone know if there are aftermarket springs available?Thanks,Steve D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Yeah I have a lot of play in mine as well. Since I have been busy with other things on the car I haven't had time to look at it properly but I have moved the steering wheel and confirmed that the pitman is not moving. So either a loose nut on the box to pitman, or worn splines as Grant suggested, or....worn box. Urggh.Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Well, we ended up getting a new worm gear made Not cheap, but subsequent ones will be cheaper. We have an early production 39, so the gear may not be right for a 1940. Dave, get rid of the endplay in the steering box as per the workshop manual, then adjust the backlash. If you still have play after all other variables have been eliminated, new gears may be the answer.CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Thanks Grant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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