Fuel tank

[Dodgy6]

Pulled my fuel tank out. I had thought it was sound, (no holes) and apart from the bottom half having been pushed in a bit, I thought I might have gotten lucky.

No such luck. Rusted through on the bottom side where the the retaining strap runs under.

The top side of the tank is in relatively good nic. I'm thinking I could kill two birds with one stone and replace the bottom half (lengthways) and get a nice undented finish but I would have a couple of extra seam marks on the finished product. Or should I be cutting my losses and trying to source another one, or just have a new one built $$$? Thoughts anyone??

BTW. Does anyone have a pic of what the drain plug shopuld look like? Is it supposed to be a nut of some description? Mine is just a rusty blob.

[MikeC5]

I think a good guess is it's a pipe thread plug in there. I'm not sure about the thread size. You may be able to drill in out and re-tap. Finding another good one might be the most cost effective (if you can find one). If the serious rust is confined to the strap areas a repair might be feasible. I'm sure someone skilled could replace the entire bottom but I imagine it would be quite expensive.

[Guest 1930]

I can see grass all the way through, be alot of work for yourself or someone else. Pipe thread plug as Mike mentioned would have been there

[Dodgy6]

I can see grass all the way through, be alot of work for yourself or someone else. Pipe thread plug as Mike mentioned would have been there

Lucky shot with the camera - through the rust hole and out the float hole!

I'm backing my skills to do it myself. Been thinking about the best way to tackle it and I think it will come up well. The Fuel tank cover on the chassis should go someway to cover any seam marks but I'm hoping I will do a good enough job that it will be hardly noticeable.

Chassis will be my first priority though. I'm just thinking ahead.

[Guest 1930]

The tank that was on my car had major damage as well, I dont know from what but I am guessing rust, middle of the tank on top, not bottom ) someone had cut a chunk out and replaced it, did a poor job, the tank on my car wont be found because it has unique features all to that particular bodystyle.

I cut out a bigger piece, crimped the edges all the way around and drilled plug weld holes around its curcumfrence, when set in place it sat flush with the top of the tank ( as near as could be expected ) welded it and filled it.

Cant tell now obviousely. Maybe my desc. is un-clear and if so I can draw a diagram, just some food for thought

[platt-deutsch]

The plug is 1/8" pipe thread.

[ply33]

I keep forgetting exactly what year you have... Your fuel tank looks very similar to the one on my '33 Plymouth and it turns out that there are metal replacement tanks being made for the street rod types that look pretty close.

Regarding the drain plug, if it was the same as Plymouth (likely for '30 or so and up) then see Part Type Code 14-86-13: Fuel Tank Drain Plug

[60ch]

I also have the same problem. I had my tank derusted on the inside and that exposed many holes in a damaged area. This tank had been sealed previously.I have no problem welding the tank, I just do not trust any tank sealer. The weld seams would be more prone to rust. I did fab a patch as shown in the picture but decided to build a new tank.

I tinned the sheet metal completely on the inside before forming the the tank shell and soldered the inside of the Pittsburgh locked seam drawing the solder through the joint. I bead blasted the filler fitting and sending unit fitting then tinned them completely as shown. These fittings were from a donor tank that I had. I still need to fit the drain and fuel pickup elbow fitting but I am pleased so far. The big challenge will be duplicating the end caps and the joint that was used to attach them. Hammer forming looks to be the way to duplicate them but not sure about duplicating the crimped seam that was used. Shooting for an authentic reproduction here. Proper tinner's rivets and soldered joints. This is a fast outline of the construction so far. It was a lot more involved and very time consuming.

Since working on the new tank I thought about the rusting of the weld joints on the patch repair of the old tank. I will be tig welding the patch and to stop any oxidation inside I will back fill with argon gas. The weld joint will sink a little but I can live with that. It will be rust free but without the tinned interior it will be susceptible to rust. I guess I will have to use a sealer. Hope the pictures turn out, Terry

[60ch]

try again.

[Guest 1930]

Wow, master metal work Terry

[Dodgy6]

The tank that was on my car had major damage as well, I dont know from what but I am guessing rust, middle of the tank on top, not bottom ) someone had cut a chunk out and replaced it, did a poor job, the tank on my car wont be found because it has unique features all to that particular bodystyle.

I cut out a bigger piece, crimped the edges all the way around and drilled plug weld holes around its curcumfrence, when set in place it sat flush with the top of the tank ( as near as could be expected ) welded it and filled it.

Cant tell now obviousely. Maybe my desc. is un-clear and if so I can draw a diagram, just some food for thought

I'm liking this and it would seem an easier method than what I was contemplating. From your description and what is in my head now, I can see how to do it without any trace of repair unless put under a magnifying glass.

[Dodgy6]

The plug is 1/8" pipe thread.

Perfect, thank-you

[Dodgy6]

I also have the same problem. I had my tank derusted on the inside and that exposed many holes in a damaged area. This tank had been sealed previously.I have no problem welding the tank, I just do not trust any tank sealer. The weld seams would be more prone to rust. I did fab a patch as shown in the picture but decided to build a new tank.

I tinned the sheet metal completely on the inside before forming the the tank shell and soldered the inside of the Pittsburgh locked seam drawing the solder through the joint. I bead blasted the filler fitting and sending unit fitting then tinned them completely as shown. These fittings were from a donor tank that I had. I still need to fit the drain and fuel pickup elbow fitting but I am pleased so far. The big challenge will be duplicating the end caps and the joint that was used to attach them. Hammer forming looks to be the way to duplicate them but not sure about duplicating the crimped seam that was used. Shooting for an authentic reproduction here. Proper tinner's rivets and soldered joints. This is a fast outline of the construction so far. It was a lot more involved and very time consuming.

Since working on the new tank I thought about the rusting of the weld joints on the patch repair of the old tank. I will be tig welding the patch and to stop any oxidation inside I will back fill with argon gas. The weld joint will sink a little but I can live with that. It will be rust free but without the tinned interior it will be susceptible to rust. I guess I will have to use a sealer. Hope the pictures turn out, Terry

While I was contemplating which way I would go, I knew I could do a partial repair but not build a whole new tank. It was the ends that had me stumped too!

Looks awesome. :cool:

[Guest 1930]

I'm liking this and it would seem an easier method than what I was contemplating. From your description and what is in my head now, I can see how to do it without any trace of repair unless put under a magnifying glass.

I neglected to mention that I crimped both sides, tank side and patch side, each other the opposite way, panel crimper, if you donthave one you can get one either air powered or mechanical, I prefer the mechanical as I could never find a decent air one with enough power

[Guest 1930]

I also have the same problem. I had my tank derusted on the inside and that exposed many holes in a damaged area. This tank had been sealed previously.I have no problem welding the tank, I just do not trust any tank sealer. The weld seams would be more prone to rust. I did fab a patch as shown in the picture but decided to build a new tank.

I tinned the sheet metal completely on the inside before forming the the tank shell and soldered the inside of the Pittsburgh lock seam drawing the solder through the joint. I bead blasted the filler fitting and sending unit fitting then tinned them completely as shown. These fittings were from a donor tank that I had. I still need to fit the drain and fuel pickup elbow fitting but I am pleased so far. The big challenge will be duplicating the end caps and the joint that was used to attach them. Hammer forming looks to be the way to duplicate them but not sure about duplicating the crimped seam that was used. Shooting for an authentic reproduction here. Proper tinner's rivets and soldered joints. This is a fast outline of the construction so far. It was a lot more involved and very time consuming.

Since working on the new tank I thought about the rusting of the weld joints on the patch repair of the old tank. I will be tig welding the patch and to stop any oxidation inside I will back fill with argon gas. The weld joint will sink a little but I can live with that. It will be rust free but without the tinned interior it will be susceptible to rust. I guess I will have to use a sealer. Hope the pictures turn out, Terry

Terry how did you form these seams, ( Pittsburgh lock seam ) do you have special equipment to do this

[60ch]

Jason, The only tool that I used is shown here. I formed the J shaped bends on the flat sheet metal over the edge of a steel table with a block of aluminum and a hammer. 1st bend was 90 degrees down forming a 1/4" leg, then turned the sheet so the 1/4" leg was facing up. Next clamped a strip of the same gage sheet metal up next to the 90 degree bend leg to act as a spacer and worked the 1/4" leg back onto the spacer. Remove the spacer and repeat the process on the other end of the sheet to form the other end of the lock seam. The sheet was then formed over the buck to get the oval shape. Once the 2 formed J ends interlocked, a heavy pipe was used as a backup bar between 2 tables with the seam directly on the pipe. Worked down the seam with the lock tool and a hammer. Terry

[Dodgy6]

Terry how did you form these seams, ( Pittsburgh lock seam ) do you have special equipment to do this

There is also a Pittsburgh seam machine. It's about as big as a chest freezer. I've used one a couple of times and is a pretty clever bit of kit, but it's not something your backyard bloke tends to have in his shed!

Because of the round nature of the tank and being made of one piece that joins end to end, I don't think a machine would be able to do it. It would be very awkward. The old fashioned way that Terry did it by folding and locking it in with the dolly might be the only way.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Dodgy6 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Jason, The only tool that I used is shown here. I formed the J shaped bends on the flat sheet metal over the edge of a steel table with a block of aluminum and a hammer. 1st bend was 90 degrees down forming a 1/4" leg, then turned the sheet so the 1/4" leg was facing up. Next clamped a strip of the same gage sheet metal up next to the 90 degree bend leg to act as a spacer and worked the 1/4" leg back onto the spacer. Remove the spacer and repeat the process on the other end of the sheet to form the other end of the lock seam. The sheet was then formed over the buck to get the oval shape. Once the 2 formed J ends interlocked, a heavy pipe was used as a backup bar between 2 tables with the seam directly on the pipe. Worked down the seam with the lock tool and a hammer. Terry

Surprised that you were able to get the seam uniform in width the entire length without having it try and walk out on you doing it this way, I know the tank is quite long. Thanks for the explanation

[60ch]

If anyone ever wondered about the inside of the DA fuel tank . I took some pictures of the last 2 fittings that I removed from my donor DA fuel tank. One is of the fuel pickup tube that is attached to the elbow on the outside of the tank. The mounting plate is brass as is the pickup tube and the elbow. The other is the drain fitting and more interestingly the way the hole is configured in the bottom of the tank. A U-shapes cutout with a hole that receives the other end of the pickup tube. The tube points right into the drain plug sump. If you blew out the fuel line and took out the drain plug first, you could discharge the blockage out of the drain hole. It does appear that the brass elbow is soldered into the brass fitting and the brass tube. That may to be the reason why the elbow does not unscrew, loose its orientation or loose vacuum inside the tank. Terry

[Dodgy6]

If anyone ever wondered about the inside of the DA fuel tank . I took some pictures of the last 2 fittings that I removed from my donor DA fuel tank. One is of the fuel pickup tube that is attached to the elbow on the outside of the tank. The mounting plate is brass as is the pickup tube and the elbow. The other is the drain fitting and more interestingly the way the hole is configured in the bottom of the tank. A U-shapes cutout with a hole that receives the other end of the pickup tube. The tube points right into the drain plug sump. If you blew out the fuel line and took out the drain plug first, you could discharge the blockage out of the drain hole. It does appear that the brass elbow is soldered into the brass fitting and the brass tube. That may to be the reason why the elbow does not unscrew, loose its orientation or loose vacuum inside the tank. Terry

Great stuff Terry

So I have to ask some questions:

- Did the DA's have a fuel filter at all? And if so, where?

- What was the fuel line made from?

Excuse my ignorance, but I havn't got much of a car to figure stuff out from....

Edited April 26, 2012 by Dodgy6 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

I thought I would give someone else a chance on this but since no replies I will answer that DAs did have a fuel sediment bowl located just to the bottom of the original vacuum tank and as you prob. realize this was the best avail as far as filters went back then for these cars, I can post pict. of it if you would ask and as far as the line goes it was a steel line unlike what we see today in that its method of production left a noticeable seam down the middle.

There is more to it than that but for the life of me I am at a loss for words right now.

Hope this helps

[Dodgy6]

I thought I would give someone else a chance on this but since no replies I will answer that DAs did have a fuel sediment bowl located just to the bottom of the original vacuum tank and as you prob. realize this was the best avail as far as filters went back then for these cars, I can post pict. of it if you would ask and as far as the line goes it was a steel line unlike what we see today in that its method of production left a noticeable seam down the middle.

There is more to it than that but for the life of me I am at a loss for words right now.

Hope this helps

Thanks Jason

My knowledge of the DA's fuel system is now at least 200% better than it was before!

Next Questions:

So does the vacuum tank do the work of a fuel pump then?

Does the fuel line run down the inside of the right hand chassis rail? There are a series of double clips there that also hold some wiring remnants. (See pics).

[Guest 1930]

Yes vacuum tank is your fuel pump, originally I believe you would of had a Stewert Warner tank on your car, DA parts books lists Stewerts as being used on Export vehicles, all domestic would have had the Kingston tanks if you put 100% faith in the parts book.

I put alot of faith in it myself.

Yes the large clips that you show if memory serves me are only for the wiring and there were smaller single clips for the fuel line. I cant seem to picture image 1 of 2, .....that fitting that you show going into the side ( inside ) of frame rail reminds me of the grease tube that runs on over to the rear spring hanger and I cant imagine what else that might be for.

Can you clarify as I am curious. Thanks

Edited April 28, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[MikeC5]

The fuel line isn't copper tubing? That's what was on my '25 anyway.

[Dodgy6]

Yes vacuum tank is your fuel pump, originally I believe you would of had a Stewert Warner tank on your car, DA parts books lists Stewerts as being used on Export vehicles, all domestic would have had the Kingston tanks if you put 100% faith in the parts book.

I put alot of faith in it myself.

Yes the large clips that you show if memory serves me are only for the wiring and there were smaller single clips for the fuel line. I cant seem to picture image 1 of 2, .....that fitting that you show going into the side ( inside ) of frame rail reminds me of the grease tube that runs on over to the rear spring hanger and I cant imagine what else that might be for.

Can you clarify as I am curious. Thanks

You are 100% correct on your interpretation of pic! That is the grease line - clever little set up. I only have it on one side, but I presume there is supposed to be one on either side. I very much doubt any new cars would go to that sort of build expense just to make maintenance of your vehicle a bit easier for the owner/mechanic! Ahhh, the good old days eh!

Edited April 28, 2012 by Dodgy6 (see edit history)

[Dodgy6]

The fuel line isn't copper tubing? That's what was on my '25 anyway.

I'm thinking that's what I'll probably end up using. I'm a plumber by trade.

[Guest 1930]

The fuel line isn't copper tubing? That's what was on my '25 anyway.

I would be surprised if your 25 was originally copper, prob. replaced at one point because copper is easier to bend

[1936 D2]

Didn't they use a copper electroplating sort of deal over steel lines at one time? Not at all sure when this may have been. Then the lines may look like copper but are really steel.

[Guest 1930]

29 was a steel line, no hiding it behind copper plating

[Dodgy6]

29 was a steel line, no hiding it behind copper plating

Oh well, steel it will be then.

Is it 5/16" OD?

[Guest 1930]

Oh well, steel it will be then.

Is it 5/16" OD?

I will have a look at that to verify but it sounds about right, remind me if I dont post back

[Guest 1930]

One of these guys will have to remind us how these lines were originally manufactured, if I remember right it was a line inside of a line and somehow the outer shell started out as a split and was then closed over somehow.

I do have pieces of original line and have had enough of them apart but cant remember the manufacturing process that was explained to me

[MikeC5]

You may be right Jason, I had assumed the copper line was original but with the level of rust on my car it probably did get replaced. Was copper unusually expensive in the twenties? Maybe seamless copper tubing wasn't available then either. Perhaps there are some engineering reasons to avoid copper (low fatigue strength?). The vacuum tank will let me know at the first sign of a leak though...

[Guest 1930]

Even im modern cars today we dont see copper fuel lines, always steel and now rubber. I dont know why, has to be a reason other than at this point copper prob. more precious of a metal than steel.

I dont believe copper has always been regarded as having a higher value

My 29 has steel lines originally. I would put money on any D.B before mine was steel as well