1925 Dodge side curtains ?

[Pete K.]

Well, I'm still going through boxes of parts from the nearby barn clean-out during the last 3 weeks. I've come across the side curtains, this one fabric panel that is "cross-shaped" I do not have a guess what it is for. It has two metal female fasteners on one end only. the opposite end has the depression marks in it from the male fasteners I think were removed. It measures 27" X 39" When UN-FOLDED. It measures only 10" X 16" when FOLDED UP. Can anyone help identify this?

Edited May 11, 2012 by Pete K. (see edit history)

[1936 D2]

Tool box cover?

Box about a 21"L X 9"W X 9" H.

Edited April 13, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history)

[Pete K.]

Well, I'm still not sure about this cross shaped odd ball cover. the center section only measures 10" X 16". WAY too small for side curtain storage. Then there are the "wings". And only one end with fastener holes. This panel matches up as a piece of the set of side curtains I previously posted, laying out in my driveway. I can see that it covered or held something in it's life. 1936D2 had a very good thought as to it being a tool box cover, but a tool box would have to be the "running board" type--don't think Dodge offered one, and what about the wind,blowing the unfastened "wings' of the panel all over? This is driving me bats!

Edited May 11, 2012 by Pete K. (see edit history)

[1936 D2]

How about a flat item, like a removable rear window glass? I am REALLY scratching now!

Wait a minute... In looking at the smaller, sort of square side flaps, I see they had a bend about 2-1/2" to 3" from the main central part. That would let this cover a shape that, according to your new measurements, would be 10" x 16" x 3". What would be that size or fit in a box that shape? Maybe a tool set like jack, crank, wrenches, etc?

Hmmm... Interesting.

Edited April 17, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history)

[Pete K.]

Well, a box that deep wouldn't fit under seat, I have the owner's manual that shows the "roll-up" tool bag with Zerk, wrenches, hammer, pliers,etc...The tool roll is just canvas. I don't have the jack. My rear window is a nickel plated frame with isinglass window.Can't be removed, and it is not the same dimensions as the weird panel in question. Please keep any and all ideas coming!!!---Pete.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Pete K. (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Maybe it held the boot cover?

[Pete K.]

Jason,I don't think it is anywhere big enough to hold the top boot. That thing is humongous., But good guess! The thing that is throwing me is why just two fastener holes on it? What keeps the rest of it in place? and where? It is canvas with the weather-proof graining on it.---Pete.

[Guest 1930]

If it wont fold down to that size than I would ask the guy that sold you the car and above all else keep us posted

[MikeC5]

That must be great fun opening all those boxes. You never know what you'll get! (where have I heard that before?)

[1936 D2]

It looks as though there was a couple straps maybe an inch or an inch and a half wide of either the usual webbed canvas material or leather that went around the whole item once the sides were folded in. That would put the pressure on the opposite panel where the indents from the clips are. I would picture the clips to be an oval ended flat that goes up through the female fitting, the strap would then wrap around the whole package and then the oval ended flat would pass through a similar female fitting on the end of the strap. This oval ended flat would then twist 90 degrees (under internal spring pressure) to hold the strap and flaps into place around the box and cover.

That's why you can see the "sharp" edge of the fold part way up the flap, because they were folded in first, and the imprint of the back side of the male oval ended flat twisty fitting on the edges of the other long flap.

Of course the "straps" are long missing now.

Hows that for a possibility? Still don't know what would be in the "box" though! :confused:

Edited April 18, 2012 by 1936 D2
added photos (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Sorry but I still say bag for the boot, no offense Pete, give it a try.

[1936 D2]

I just now see it. See the two small holes by each of the "indentations" on the upper flap? Those are from the male counterpart of the fasteners which are now both missing. The center section of the first photo you have is the bottom. There are four "lines" on that bottom side that were resting tightly on something which prevented weathering to those surfaces. (They are about 3/4" wide maybe, one down the center of the long way and the three others the short way.) So with that, the cover essentially was placed the same way that it is in your second photo with the fabric side up. Then something was placed on top of that center part, that had fairly straight and sharp edges (like a box). That box was about maybe three inches tall. Then the side flaps were flipped over to cover the ends of the "box" and the back flap, with the male twist clips, was flipped over onto the top. The front flap, with the female receptacles, was then flipped up to meet the back flap. This flap was then lined up with the twist clips sticking up from the edge of the back flap, and was fastened down by inserting and twisting both male clips so they rest in the indentations on the female clips in a 90 degree fashion.

There was something in this box that leaked whatever the staining is that shows on the fabric side of the cover. Again, this COULD be a set of tools with an oil leaking jack that finally soaked the box and got onto the cover. I think this cover was in place on the exterior of the vehicle (or similar situation - again leaning toward tools) where it sustained considerable weathering over the decades.

Now Pete just needs to find the spot that the four 3/4" bands match and also the "box". Then the question will be answered. It could be that it is not even from this car!

I would tend to guess a luggage rack or possibly the top of a trunk someplace with leather banding that matches the pattern on the bottom of this cover.

Let us know what you find out Pete!

[R.White]

Hello Pete, I think you must be a really lucky guy to have found that car and all those spares. It seems to be in a remarkable state of preservation and is definitely a 'once in a lifetime' event. You must be supremely happy. I also have a DB touring but from 1926. and those pictures are a very useful resource for several of us.

Your discovery should feature in 'The Automobile' magazine. I don't know how popular this journal is in the States but it is the premier magazine for all vintage car enthusiasts in the U.K and is also popular in OZ. Please let me know if you would wish to share your news with us Brits.

Incidently, I also thought that the carrier could be for the top boot. You are lucky to find it still with the car, Are the top saddle rests also with the car?

Have you asked the man who sold the car if he has any old photos of the car for your history file?

Ray.

[1936 D2]

1930 and R.Wight could be right too! There could have been a open top box in there that would have held the "more supple in it's younger days" top boot. The staining could have come from the outside of the cover and finally soaked through to the inner fabric part. Do you see any remnants of this staining on the top boot? Answering that may lead you someplace too!

[Pete K.]

Well guys, I must reiterate the "center section" of the mystery shroud is only 10" X 16", without the wings. It is way too small for the top boot, since I can almost fit in the boot like a sleeping bag. There's no way the boot can be folded up small enough to even come close to going in the panel in question. The rubberized side of my shroud photo has "lines", sort of in crosses on the panel. These were old tape marks, whereas I removed a few remnants of remaining tape. Most of it fell off. Don't know why someone even put the tape on it--- there's no cuts in fabric under the tape! As far as my big finds, yes, I'm finding many different things for different cars. 2 complete engines & transmissions for a '32 Pontiac, Two complete sets of '22(?) Dodge Budd-Michelin disc wheels and a set for the '25. All with hubs. Two "short" Dodge radiators with a nickel shell & a black shell. A set of side curtains for a '23 Dodge roadster, with top irons AND saddles! They won't fit my '25 which are not to be found. Steering columns, wood wheels, axles, rear ends, fenders (REARS only), brake parts by the ton, a set of dash gauges for a Sunbeam Alpine, tons of Studebaker parts, old accessories, headlamps, lenses, bulbs, WHEW!!! It doesn't END! I am now in the old car parts business. If you could see my back yard, you'd laugh. The owner is long passed on, his son has included the "junkyard" with the '25 Dodge I bought from him. He doesn't care about his father's collection of a lifetime.I do. May he rest in peace.

[Guest 1930]

Quote........Don't know why someone even put the tape on it.........maybe to help something from rubbing and tearing thru.

Quote........He doesn't care about his father's collection of a lifetime............Thats probably all of our worst fears

[R.White]

Thank goodness this little gem has found it's way into the care of a sensible guy who has no intention of spoiling it's originality.

Pete, you are a very welcome member of our club and especially this forum. Do keep those posts coming - we are loving it!

Ray.

[Bob Zetnick]

I am enjoying reading about this mystery cover and of your barn finds. I read a post recently about top rests maybe being removable. Could a box have stored the top rests?

[R.White]

Bob. I think that idea has merit. If you place two rests together, they will take an area of about 12" x 7". I am wondering what else would have gone in with them?

Ray

Edited April 18, 2012 by R.White (see edit history)

[Pete K.]

Dear Mr. White, Thank you for your kind words and encouragement, the same to ALL of this forum's gentlemen! I feel honored to be a part of this group, and will continue the "conserving" of my '25 Dodge, with plenty of up dates, and many questions, if it's not too much bother for all. After only a few weeks of investigating the car and components,(at this point, very little time), I've found this Dodge to be on the SAME level of workmanship as Packard in the '20's. Possibly better, if one includes the all steel body of the Dodge! As far as the old property goes, the son has the place up for sale, he figured he would save money by having me take everything away free, whereas not paying a clean out crew to scrap everything. I've now finished my 20+ trips to his Dad's place, the last few days I've had to pick through the "scrapper's trailer that has shown up on the scene for "non-automotive" things. I found these accessory sun shades with the original instruction sheet,and bottom half of the box. They were made by the L-W Glare Shield Co., 46 Cornhill, Boston, Mass. "Telephone congress 0623". These were never used and have the most beautiful deep, blue-green hue when held up to sunlight. I'll bet the box cover WAS there a week ago---. Never did find my '25 Touring car saddles. The deal was for me to remove everything automotive from the property. needless to say, a tub full of copper and brass found it's way to my pick up bed.----Pete.

[Joe Cozza]

Pete K

Have you considered coming to the CT meet in June? I know a lot of local members would love to hear the story of your find.

If you can't stay the whole week, come down Friday(29th) to look at the cars.

What's it.. 150 miles to Southbury CT

There should be a 25, a 23, and of course my Aussie build 23. Plus many more newer cars:D

Don't know if you are ready to sell anything yet,but if you are, this would be the place.

Joe C.

[R.White]

Good for you, Pete! That guy you bought it from sure was short sighted !

It is probably too soon, but if you happen to find a white faced ammeter that is surplus to your requirements, then Gilbert (my car) would be happy to do some sort of deal/swap.

Ray.

[Pete K.]

Dear Joe, Thanks for the heads up about the car meet in Ct. I did not know about it. I would love to see your '23! I hope to have some sort of inventory started next week, at least with the abundance of Dodge Brothers parts. I will certainly make plans to visit on the 29th., June. ---Pete.

[Pete K.]

Dear Mr. White, I've searched all over here for ammeters, whereas I've got most gauges sorted into one area.---Not one "white faced" ammeter! Was it just like the black faced ones, only reversed "negative" white for black? Are they same diameter?, 2-3/16" (U.S. measure) patent date on the one I have here is; Oct. 7, '19. Marked Dodge Brothers, with Indian head logo. Nickel plated bezel, black face.---Sorry---Pete.

[R.White]

No worries Pete, I am just as much in the dark as you on this. I have only had my 1926 touring since September and so I am still learning. What I understand is that when the cars went over from the 12 volt (with combined starter generator) to a six volt, 2 unit system, they changed from black faced dials to white faced ones including the speedometer and ignition switch.

If I have got this wrong then hopefully someone will correct me.

The ammeter you have there with Dodge Brothers on it is, I think, a little more common but they are not exactly falling out the trees! I would Keep hold of that one if I were you.

The search goes on. It's all good fun !

Ray.

[R.White]

Another thought I had about that mystery shroud is that it could perhaps have been a protective wrap for a workshop manual. The outside seems to be very dirty; as if it had been kept in an engine compartment or somewhere grubby - who knows?

Ray.

[keiser31]

Another thought I had about that mystery shroud is that it could perhaps have been a protective wrap for a workshop manual. The outside seems to be very dirty; as if it had been kept in an engine compartment or somewhere grubby - who knows?

Ray.

I was thinking that, but have no idea as to the sizes of the books that would be for the car.

[1936 D2]

Holy cats Pete! I have been looking for some thing just like those "Stop Glare"s for a while now. Are they something that you had an interest in selling or were you adding them to the coolness of the '25? Let me know by email. Just click my name on the left and "send email".

[Guest 1930]

They look later than 25 acces. Might look better on a 36

[Pete K.]

It doesn't take too much detective work to gauge the age of my Stop-Glare visors. If you expand my photo of the original paper instructions, you will see a Boston phone number that dates it prior to 1928--but, just notice the picture in top left corner of the paper work of the visor on an open touring car's windshield frame, with an early-mid twenties car coming towards him with headlamps a-glaring. They look great on the '25 Dodge now! Sorry, these are a "keeper"----Pete.

[Pete K.]

Mr. White, I really think you may be on to something with your idea of a cover pouch for booklets. I've read where there were booklets included with every new '25 Dodge which at least included the Book Of Information, the folding top instructions, jacking instructions, and a booklet of accessories, which would have info on the Budd-Michelin disc wheels,etc...Could be even more. The under side of my Dodge's front seat IS grimy, yet I see no fasteners(yet), for the edge of the panel to fasten to. The center section measures 10" X 16" when the "flaps" are folded in.

[Guest 1930]

It doesn't take too much detective work to gauge the age of my Stop-Glare visors. If you expand my photo of the original paper instructions, you will see a Boston phone number that dates it prior to 1928--but, just notice the picture in top left corner of the paper work of the visor on an open touring car's windshield frame, with an early-mid twenties car coming towards him with headlamps a-glaring. They look great on the '25 Dodge now! Sorry, these are a "keeper"----Pete.

All it takes is a little time and evidently I did not have enough, that is a neat picture of the touring car

Once the picture is blown up it is evident the quality is there as well for an early piece

Edited April 19, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[1936 D2]

Pete; See my post 12 again. I don't think this item was fastened to anything on the car. I think it was "free standing" and that the male clip parts were on the "indented" flap but have been removed. Look closely at the indentations and you can see the two holes in the material that would match the fold over sharp points on the male clips. I don't think this thing was clipped TO anything. It was clipped closed on its own.

[Pete K.]

You are correct. Thank you. I spent some time staring at those so-called indentations and I now believe there were the male clips once on there. The little slits that the fastener prongs would have had are almost completely closed up, but it just has to be! When I folded the panel to where it would be fastened to itself, I cannot for the life of me believe this was a pouch for all the side curtains for this touring bodied car. It's just not large enough. I also believe it was not for a jack. Some of us now think it was for the booklets that came with the car. This is certainly a possibility. Thanks again!!!--Pete

[1936 D2]

Good luck with that one! I got nuthin' else.

Will watch for the final "mystery solved" post!

[Guest 1930]

Hello Pete, I have done a little digging and I maybe have found the answer, if not than I still have some things to add that you will enjoy. Are you still looking?

[Pete K.]

Hi Jason, The only thing I can see the odd shroud could be for, is a fold up pouch for the Dodge Brothers booklets. There were a set of fasteners that were removed from the one side of the fabric panel to fasten it all up. This could of been stored under the front seat originally, but I found it in a box of all the side curtains stored in the rafters. It surely was not for the jack, since that would have left some odd and grimy indentations.--Pete.

[Guest 1930]

I wish I could find that topic concerning the saddles specifically being re-movable, not that I doubted they were but it really tickled my fancy when I was able to read this information first hand in 1926 book of information concerning D.B motor cars and G.B trucks.

Pete section that reads curtains and rods, I think ( hope ) you may find this especially interesting.

[R.White]

Oh the joys of touring car ownership! I like the way they say the top can be "quickly raised or lowered as required"! Ideally this would be a three person job - two to handle the top while someone else reads out the instructions. Only joking; I can manage it on my own, but it's a bit of a palaver. Unless you have the saddles in place, you can easily scratch the tops of the doors.

With the top down, I am not quite sure where one is supposed to put the side curtains; under the rear seat perhaps? Then where do you put the jack, crank, footpump and emergency spare parts?

"what about the rear luggage rack or the running boards" I hear you say. I am hoping to acquire one of those diamond trellis things (I don't know the right word for it) which fix on the running board. The rear luggage rack, I fear, will be commandeered by the mem-sahib for the picnic hamper!

All good fun!

Ray

[Pete K.]

Jason, I do have a copy of that booklet and saw those pictures too. Again, I must dismiss the idea of my pouch in question ever stowing anything like the side curtains or the rods. When folded up, it measures only 10 inches by 16 inches with NO sign of anything metallic or sharp or pointy or greasy ever in it. Try folding up all six side curtains without creasing the Isinglass and see how large of a bundle you have in front of you. As far as the rods, they are too long to fit in this pouch. I still say it must have been for the manuals--(?)-- To answer your question Ray, all the items you mentioned, should fit fine under the front seat. At least in my Budd-bodied Dodge there is room, there is where I found tools and crank among many mouse houses (and mouse out-houses).