39Cdan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Good evening,This is my first post to this forum - thank you kindly for any help offered.I recently became the owner of a 1939 Buick Sedan. It belonged to my Uncle (who pampered the car) for decades but it sat dormant for roughly 16 years until I "rollbacked" it to a mechanic a few months ago for a tune-up. He did the things you would expect: plugs, wires, clean the gas tank, replace fuel line, brakes, water and gas pumps.The car now starts and drives wonderfully. But, there is a noticeable engine miss while idling and driving. I've seen some testimony about solid core wires and plugs (?)In addition to that, what else should I check?Thank you very much for any suggestions.Regards,39Cdan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Welcome aboard! Another 39? Cool!As for your miss, could be in need of a valve grind. At least check the valve lash. Done a compression test? How's the vacuum line to the wiper? Possible vacuum leak? Manifold gasket ok? Check the wire from the coil to the points, and check the gap. That's my 2c. I'm sure the guys will have other suggestions, including a request for pictures of your car!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Cool !! Another potential '39 Team Member. Welcome aboard. I'd concur with Grant for starters. Always go back to basics. Is the miss consistent with the RPM ?? or intermittent ??Danny( Another '39, somebody somewhere must be breeding these things ! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hello Grant,Thank you very much for the suggestions.Attached (should be) is a photo I took yesterday - gorgeous day in Pennsylvania for a spin.I'll do the checks you've mentioned and look forward to seeing your other Buick related posts.Regards,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh, Oh, and I suggest you post some pics. :rolleyes:Danny(:oBugger, too late:o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hi Danny,Thank you for the warm welcome.The miss occurred consistently from idle up to 40 mph.My mechanic is quite experienced I think but not necessarily with antique autos - hence my following up on the "google produced findings" about old style vs new style plug wires.I'll gladly and unabashedly take any knowledge and experience you have to offer.Thank you,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Kevin, a big WELCOME. As Grant said, do a compression check if it has not been done. That will let you know[maybe] if the problem is internal or not. Then get back to us. We like to trouble shoot. And we ALL hope it is not internal. Beautiful car!! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If new plugs were put in, It would be good to pull plugs and check their color. A consistent miss sounds like one cylinder may have a problem. A compression check and the plugs will locate and ID the problem.Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hello Ben and Bob,A pleasure making your acquaintance as well.Thank you very much for the ideas. I somehow knew jumping in to this forum would help me meet some nice folks and get some good tips.My Buick is still parked up in PA but I live in VA - if my plans come together I'll trailer it down sometime in April. Then I'll start down the great list of suggestions provided by my fellow '39ers.Thank you again,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You might try with and without the spark plug cover. They were notorious for providing a path to ground for degraded plug wire insulation.Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hi Jeff,Thank you for the suggestion.Even though the wires are brand spankin' new, I've seen some folks write about the merits of old style vs new style wires. Your help and other's has produced numerous possibilities for me to check and I'm willing to bet the culprit lies within this list.Thank you very much,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Straight eight Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 New style wires just don't cut it, the copper wires will do the trick. The reason is the voltage thru the copper wires is only 25000 at best, and the new style wires are less conductive as they are made to handle 75000 volts.Please let us know if this solves your problem, it did for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thank you Mr. Straight Eight,When I think about the care given to this car by my Uncle, I was hoping that the solution would turn out to be something simple and not "internal" as Ben mentioned above. However, I haven't fixed it yet so I'm very grateful for all the experience that's been offered.Thank you again,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trp3141592 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hi--great car!If you can stand another observation, you might have a problem with your plug wires talking to each other, a process called "induction." This happens when wires are run parallel to each other and close together. The current in one will induce a counter-current in the other with the result of mis-firings.I had a 50 Studebaker Champ that absolutely would not run on all 6 if the wires were put through the factory loom. It ran fine when the wires were pulled out of the loom and separated. You may have a similar issue where your wires are bunched together at the side cover.Love the car!--Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hello Tom,Ab-so-lutely, I can stand another observation! Thank you for relaying your cross-talk experience. There seems to be quite a bit of supporting evidence out there on the web regarding this issue.Based on your photo, I'd say you and your aching back have done well for yourselves I've recently taken ownership of the sedan and I'm looking forward to joining up with the AACA folks here in VA for events and shows.Thank you again for your lesson learned and please don't hesitate to pass back any other hard-won knowledge.Regards,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Kevin,A quick test for a low speed miss, is to fire her up on a moonless nite, or in a dark garage, and see if you have a "light show" going on under the bonnet.When I replaced my wires on my '40, I used "replacement wires" from my local Carquest store.They had 90 degree ends for the plug end, and I cut them to length, to match the oldies, and pluged the straight end in the dist cap. Use the brass end w/ the LONG barb.Upon firing her up and hearing her miss,, I discovered that #5 was not seating on the plug. I had to cut about 3/8" off the plug end rubber boot to fit over the big old plugs. I cut all 8 boots, just to make sure they all seat inside on the electrode and not just the boot.So far w/ over 1K miles on her, no misses, and I'm running the plug cover.Just my $ .02Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hello Mike,That's great advice. I came to the right grapevine for help!My biggest problem at the moment is my car is still in PA and I'm in VA - however, I'll trailer it down in April and get started on trying the great suggestions above.Thank you again and I'm sure I'll be looking for another $.02 from you in the near future.Regards,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Hanning Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 To identify the cyl(s) that's missing you should short out the spark plugs one at a time with a screwdriver, or pull the plug leads one at a time and you will soon track down the offending one as the good cyls. will change the engine beat and the missing one will make little or no change.Mike HanningChristchurchNew Zealand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Hello Mr. Hanning,Thank you for this fault isolation technique. It will be a few weeks before I have a chance to try it but what I do know is the cause of this miss doesn't stand a chance at staying hidden with the help I'm getting here.Here's a question - who knows what the differences are between the first and last generations of Buick 248?Just curious.Thank you again,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Our 39 coupe has a 47 engine, so I can tell you that the water pump design changed to eliminate that pesky bypass valve, plus the water pump pulley is bigger. Found that out when the 39 fan belt was too small! The oil system was changed as well. They tried something around the distributor re-the oil, but eliminated it later on. My memory is letting me down here! A big change from 37 to 38, was the introduction of "Turbulator" pistons. Essentially, domed pistons. Freed up some more horses by increasing compression ratio. During the 40's the design of the spark plug cover changed to a more modern looking, sharp edged design. The intake manifold shape changed at the firewall end, with the old straight one replaced with a step down design in 1939. Sorry for the randomness, but I'm writing as they come to mind! Then there are the different model Stromberg and Carter carb models as well. That's a start! Grandpa and the other guys can probably add heaps more!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Hanning Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hello Kevin, Just a thought or two regarding the engine miss. Was the engine running when you took it to the mechanic? If so was it missing? The cause of the miss may have been introduced, don't be fooled by new plugs as one of them might be faulty. Check the HT lead orientation and ensure they follow the firing order. Check the distributer cap for cracks or tracking.Good luck and best regards, Mike Hanning Christchurch New Zealand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Grant - Thank you for recalling some of your discoveries from the evolution of the 248. Sounds like the jump from '37 to '38 was a big one. I'm curious if most 248 owners have an opinion regarding the most significant change to the 248.Mike - Thank you for your recent post. My Special sat in waiting for several years before she was "roll-backed" to the mechanic. He replaced the plugs and wires early in the salon treatment. Later he mentioned the miss but said the cap and rotor looked good (that's when the little thought cloud appeared above my head with the text about old style and new style plug wires). The comments above concerning vacuum leaks are also very much appreciated and I'm look forward to trying the one-at-a-time technique that you mentioned above.R,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Kevin,Thanks fo your response.One more thought. I bought a cap, rotor, point set from NAPA when I first bought my Buick.It's possible you could have a "hairline" crack in your dist cap, which might cause a "miss".Sometimes they leave a tell tale line of carbon along the crack inside, some times not. But the cost of a cap isn't that much, and it will have nice clean contacts inside. Ditto w/ the rotor.Also, For my own peace of mind, I pulled all my plugs myself and "sparked" them against the block (in a dark garage) to make sure they all sparked about the same, after I cleaned and regapped them, prior to installation Also check both ends and sockets of the coil wire. I found green stuff in the coil socket, and cleaned it out w/ baking soda & H2O on a "Q" tip.For the sake of those who tune in later, please post your eventual "cure".Best Regards,Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hi Mike,You read my mind - don't do that I've received above the benefit of many many hours of labor on the part of fellow 39ers - I otta be "counciled" sternly if after solving this issue I don't post it. I definitely will.I plan to bring the car down to Virginia in April and work through the suggestions above - it seems like a sure bet that the cause is related to the possibilities mentioned above.R,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) 39Cdan,Did you ever fix your "miss" ?We are all waiting.................................Mike in ColoradoBTT Edited November 2, 2012 by FLYER15015 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hi Mike,Thanks for keeping me honest Long story short - I live in Norfolk VA and my car is still in Pennsylvania; been trying (without success) to match up schedules with some family members to get'r moved down here.The answer to your question is, it's still missing and I haven't found the cause yet Lots of lessons learned above that I will step through once I get the darn thing down here, but, any additional ideas are more than welcome.Regards,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvelde Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Kevin, I think you need to let me bring this car to Texas for a while - sounds like you are neglecting her....! Be happy to make room for her if you want.Good luck getting her moved soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Mornin' John,Lemme know if you happen to find yourself in central PA headed south pulling an empty trailer - we can show the stately lady a little TLC.Your coupe is gorgeous. My sedan was actually part of a coupe/sedan pair owned by my Aunt and Uncle years ago. A fella came along back in the 90's and made an offer on the coupe that my Uncle couldn't refuse.Anyway, same old story here, lots of irons in the fire at the moment and I'm trying to reach for the one that says '39 Sedan R,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvelde Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Kevin, hope you didn't catch too much of the bad weather where you are. I will keep watching this thread to follow progress on the '39 sedan. Thanks for the comments on the coupe, we are having fun with it and know you are looking forward to doing the same with your beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39Cdan Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Good Evening,Fixed.Loooooooooong story short.I finally talked myself into hiring a hauler to bring my car down from PA (he did a great job and I'll gladly pass along his number to anyone thinking of having a car hauled).So, now that I had a chance to work on the car I did the obvious and logical things first - replaced the cap, button, and wires. Took the car for a spin yesterday - no miss.Wish I had a more interesting story for you gentlemen but I'm quite happy the fix was inexpensive.I have another question for which I'll start a separate thread.Thank you very much for your suggestions and patience.Regards,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Good to see you finally got it sorted Kevin.Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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