Power Window Problems - need help

[Trey]

I just bought my first Reatta (1988 with 174,000 miles). I am in the process of fixing it up and I am having power window issues. They are behaving strangely. At first, the upper window control button (on the center console) will make the passenger window go down, but then the same switch will control the driver window to go up. There is no rhyme or reason for what switch will control which window and which direction. I cannot get both windows to be up at the same time. Does anyone have any experience with this issue?

[Guest Recian]

sounds like maybe a corroded connection. I'd try removing the switch and making sure. If connections are good, sounds like a faulty switch.

[NCReatta]

That's just strange. It's obvious somebody has monkeyed with the wiring.

First and easiest thing to check is the wires on the back of the switch. I'll work on getting you a picture of how it's supposed to be.

[KDirk]

I'd suspect the switch first. Due to it's location in the center console, it is prone to get spills and dirt in it. The window and mirror switches are both prone to internal corrosion and being gummed up because of this, which may lead to strange malfunctions. That said, until you explore further, we can't say for certain that some previous owner of your car didn't hack-up some of the wiring for some reason.

KDirk

[Trey]

Thanks for the insight. Do you know the best way to take apart the console so I can look behind the switch?

[NCReatta]

First remove the shifter knob. There's a little "U" shaped clip on the front you'll have to pull out with needle nose pliers. You may have to take the car out if gear to get to it.

Next the rectangular black trim piece that holds the shift indicator will snap out with a little pressure.

Once that is removed, there will be two T-15 screws up at the front of the console (where you removed the rectangular piece from). Remove those.

Next open up the ash tray and take out the two Phillips head screws.

Once all the screws are removed, it should easily pop out with you fingers.

[Trey]

Got it out - thanks! Now what am I supposed to be looking at? It does not look corroded to me. Note that I do have the 1988 service manual.

[KDirk]

Trey,

If the internal contacts of the switch are corroded or gummed up from spills and such, it is not usually apparent without disassembling the switch. Internally, all the fixed and moving electrical contacts are just raw (unplated) brass, so except for the little bit of grease put on when the switch was made new, there is nothing to prevent oxidation and corrosion from occurring.

I have several 88/89 style window and mirror switches here from parts cars and all were filthy inside. Granted, I don't know how long the cars these came from sat in the salvage yard, or their prior history, but the design of these switches lends itself to getting "fouled" after nearly 25 years on use.

Having said all that, I'm not aware of a large number of failures of the sort you are having. If this was a common problem, there would be posts on here about it routinely (like there are with 90/91 IPC failures just for example). Now that you have the console apart, go over the wiring harness for the window switch closely, and follow it back as far as possible. If there is any evidence of cuts, chafing, or even splices in the wiring anywhere, then it may well be a wiring problem. If all wiring looks good and original condition, I'd have to suspect the switch.

Also look at the switch itself to see if it is maybe coming apart (the "guts" of the switch snap in place from the underside, with small "detents" around the edge) as this could cause contacts not to line up correctly and maybe cause unpredictable operation. Also, if you have the switch disconnected from the harness, shake it to see if it rattles as though there are loose parts inside. If it does, then the switch is suspect.

KDirk

[Trey]

I looked at it some more, and there may be some corrosion at the contacts. How should I go about replacing this part? Is it difficult procedure? Is the part easy to find?

[NCReatta]

The way I read the original post, one single switch (we'll use the one in the right side as an example) now has the ability to control both windows. The right hand side switch will make the passenger window go down, and the drivers window go up. Am I correct in the way I interpreted that?

[Trey]

Actually, I just pulled the wires off the four posts and I did find some liquid and probable corrosion. I did not know the wires came off as a set by pulling on them.

[Trey]

Both switches now have the ability to control both windows go either up or down. It is hard to guess what the switches are going to do when I push them.

[NCReatta]

Both switches now have the ability to control both windows go either up or down. It is hard to guess what the switches are going to do when I push them.

So basically it's just spastic and unpredictable? If you're interested, and your soldering skills are decent, I can send you a window switch and the plug and wires on the back. If you can splice it in, it should all work.

[Trey]

Accidentally ran my battery dead trying to fix the switch. It has done that twice now - do I have a faulty battery or is that just the way it is? I think cleaning the contacts with a q-tip and alcohol did the trick. Right before the battery died, I think the windows were working as expected. I will jump the battery and let you know if I was successful. If so, I will take pictures of the steps I took for future users of this site.

[NCReatta]

If your battery is more than 2 or 3 years old, it's probably worth replacing if you plan to drive the car often.

It's pretty normal to run the battery down with the switch on for a prolonged period. Especially if your fog lights are on.

[Jim]

I have had a lot of experience with the '88-89 window switches and usually what happens is the contacts will get a little corroded and this bad connection on those contacts causes heat. This head melts the points on the white plastic rockers.

The rockers need to have nice sharp points but if they are even the slightest bit rounded from melting the switch will not work.

With the switch assembled when you operate any of the four positions you should here a click or snapping sound. This means the spring steel contacts are flexing an operating the contacts. Sometimes when the white points are slightly worn you may be able to hear the snap when pushing harder than normal on the switch.

If the white points are slightly melted and rounded you will have to replace the switch or the white rockers if you can find them.

At this time I do not have any white rockers available but do have some good working '88-89 switches available at reasonable prices.

I can be reached at jfinn@cpinternet.com

[Trey]

Thanks Jim, I will take you up on that as the windows still do not operate as expected. Also, the switches do not look like they are shown in the operating manual, so someone may have switched out the switches incorrectly and that is why they are acting so strangely.

[Rawja]

From memory:

AFAIR the motors going up or down is controlled be reversing the polarity i.e.: terminal 1+ , terminal 2- window goes down; terminal 1-, terminal 2+ window goes up.

I would check the pin/wire color diagram in the FSM for the connector at the window switch to verify that the wires are in their correct positions within the connector.

I've never heard of the malfunction pattern you're describing.

[padgett]

With the switch removed it is easy to use a pair of jumpers to simulate the switch. If it acts normally that way then it is the switch.

Note: the switch itself must be a DPDT center off with one end crossed from the other. While it is possible that one switch might make one side go up and the other side down, the miswiring would need to be serious.

Switch for one window is shown. Second window is the same. Is the switch in two layers ?

[Trey]

I think I found the issue. Jim sent me pictures of what the window switches for a 1988 Buick Reatta should look like and they did not match the switches that I have in my car.

[Trey]

Jim,

I chose the second from the left. I have sent you an e-mail.

Trey

[Trey]

I have the center console all taken apart and I have installed the new switches and they work correctly. However; there is a little bulb just dangling around. Where should I attach that bulb within the console? I would hate to put everything back together and not attach this little bulb correctly.

[Rawja]

It clips in behind the ashtray to provide illumination for same. Very tedious to get in place when re-installing the console top. It'll take a few tries, but eventually you'll get it.

[Trey]

I can't find the the place where the bulb clips in. Is there a receptor for the bulb?

[Rawja]

With the console top out, you'll see that there's a little window for the bulb socket clips to engage behind the ashtray opening. Socket mounts horizontally to the opening and in my experience it will take you a number of tries to get the top in without disengaging the lamp holder from the opening.

[Howard]

I'm speaking just from memory as I have not had my Reatta for several years. On your ashtray, you will note a small hole in the upper side. This is where the light shines through. Place the ashtray in the console and note the position of the hole in the ashtray. Remove the ashtray and at the position near you noted for the ashtray hole, there is a small square opening. The lamp unit snaps in the back of the square opening. As pointed out, it is somewhat difficult to get to because, at least on my car, there is not enough wire to attach the light unit to the square opening with the console out of the car. The console must be fully assembled to attach the light. Hope this helped.