farrellg Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I am looking for advice and council on painting wooden wheels. The wheels on my 1931 3/4 ton db express pickup are in very good shape, solid wood etc. However, they are rusty. I have read many posts on the forum about this. "Dont take them apart", "take them apart, but label them and keep them dry" etc...... The problem I have is that the steel felloe will need to be blasted, really dont want to do that with the spokes in. Also, blasting the brake drums with them attached will not work without destroying the spokes. So I am looking for experience from others on what to do here. Help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Mask off the spokes with duct tape, remove the drum but make a mark on its original position and put it back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwollam Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I blasted my 27 wheels with the drums on and spokes all together. As Jason suggested I duct taped the spokes and had no problems. I used oil based wood primer on the spokes and automotive primer on the metal, then painted with automotive enamel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinist_Bill Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Dave, is it possible to take them apart, bleach and re-stain, re-assemble the wheel in exact order, and then varnish?This has probably been asked a hundred times so the answer should be quick.....and the phrase: "Are you an idiot?" can be used in the answer if needed.Machinist Bill (NOT WHEELWRIGHT BILL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Spokes are shimmed in many cases, in order to remove the spokes you may have to remove the shims and chances are maybe some spokes will become damaged doing that. Sometimes they are shimmed at the rim outside of spoke and sometimes they are shimmed down the center of spoke looking down inside the rim, maybe there are other ways.You could remove the spokes and possibly have no damage, you would need to number the spokes and make notice of where the first spoke set in the rim, you would need some sort of a press to re-install the spokes but anything from as simple as a porta power to an auto jack could be made to work, all the spokes have to go in and be pressed in as a unit. Its alot of work, it is the way I like to do it because it is the cleanest way and would allow the rim to be blasted clean and then powder coated if you desire. All depends on how you want to go about it, also the correct or authentic looking hardware is un-available but you can find suitable hardware that is close from places like Snyders ect. Edited January 12, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinist_Bill Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Doesn't sound too difficult, but I will try it first on a scrap wheel I have with bad spokes. It still runs true so if I can take it apart, put it back together and it still runs true, all is well. I will do some more research so I know the order of removal, re-assembly before I attempt it. A Great winter project!Oh Honey! Clean off the dining room table 'cause I'm bringing in something from the barn!Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texacola Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Bill & George....please keep us posted on your progress and results.I plan to go "natural" on my 27 express but won't get to it this winter. If their beyond repair Calimers Wood Shop in Pa. will make new spokes and install hub and fellow for around $275/per for DB wheels. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I said shimmed above because at the time I couldnt find a better term, to clarify I have seen what I would describe as a U shaped collar between the spokes and the rim that took up slack and I have seen wedges driven down into the end of the spokes ( if you were to look down inside the rim ) to spread the tips of the spokes and tighten them as well. Sorta like the mawl we use to split a chunk of firewood. Not saying you will find either of these but if you do find the wedge chances are you wont get that spoke out alive and will have to replace.Also I did not mention to not only note where first spoke set in rim but also the direction of travel for the remainder of spokes.You would set the rim on a flat surface ( stable surface, me thinks the dining room table may not cut it ) start laying your spokes in the hub and the rim at same time, when you reach the end your hub will stick out above your rim like a teepee, some sort of an overhead would be needed if you were using a simple jack, the hub would be pressed down and your spokes will set in place. I have some early D.B pictures of this being done and can prob. find them if needed Edited January 12, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinist_Bill Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Jason, After a terrible experience on the dining room table rebuilding a 4-speed (A bearing shot out and broke the wife's china cabinet glass) I am regrettably restricted to the garage. I plan on making a fixture to do exactly what you described. A little linseed oil during the pressing maybe? Those photos would be a help if you can find them. No hurry as I need to make the fixture for the arbor press.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanatejeda Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Here is a pic of my 4screen. The wheels and rims were redone about 20 years ago. At first we had them painted to match the colors of the truck, blue with gold pin striping, but with all the movement the paint started to chip and crack. We had them sand blasted in place and used black stain. They have held up very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I just though of something that I may have been trying to describe all along, maybe Jim Anselmo??? or someone posted a video here a while back of Henry Fords workers making the wooden wheels, showed very good details of most of the procedures including the smoke turning and the presses used to put the wheels together. Maybe Jim or someone can provide the link to that video again here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwollam Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Bill, is it possible? Yes. Not fun though. I too have bought the wife more than 1 new table cloth! Good thing it is just the 2 of us and we usually use the lift up coffee table in the living room to chow down! If I don't pick up my parts and tools she boxes them up and they end up in the shop who knows where! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Anselmo Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I don't think it was me...JimI just though of something that I may have been trying to describe all along, maybe Jim Anselmo??? or someone posted a video here a while back of Henry Fords workers making the wooden wheels, showed very good details of most of the procedures including the smoke turning and the presses used to put the wheels together. Maybe Jim or someone can provide the link to that video again here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Ok, this is pretty good at about 1.25 seconds into the video...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Redelman Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This is my first post to any forum so bear with me as I have never done this before (posting). As to rebuilding wheels I have restored many. The first thing to be done is to number the spokes of each wheel, I use a set of number stamps as the dent from the stamp will always remain compared to marking with ink or marker and then stripping paint and grease and bleaching before staining and varnishing. Always start numbering the spokes in relation to the hole in the fellow for the valve steam and mark behind where the hub sits so it will never show. When removing spokes I find you will damage the spokes less by removing them in a alternate direction. Odd number to the left, even to the right, this allows the spokes to come apart with less movement and thus not damaging the round part of the spoke where it fits on the fellow. People have brought me wheels where they have pushed all of the spokes out in one motion or beat one spoke out, the spoke would have been smashed on the face which contacts the fellow (more so on steel fellow's than wood). I take a piece of oak (2"x2"x6") and make an outline of the shape of the spoke (just the part that is under the flange) so when I tap on the spoke it will not damage the wood of the spoke (especially when the spokes come out). When I refinish the spokes I try not to put any varnish buildup between where the spokes come together other than just a wiping with a rag-soaked swipe of finish the same goes to the end which contacts the fellow. When the fellow is sandblasted primed and finished this will provide more tension to the spokes when assembled. Also don't soak the spokes in the paint remover as this will swell the wood and give you problems.For resembling the spokes I rub the mating surfaces of the spokes with paraffin this helps the spokes to slide in place (this is only necessary on about five of the spokes, the others can be put in place without any paraffin). I like to bring them together from both sides, a reversal of the dis assembly process.Just a heads up on some wheels there is a taper on the bottom of the spokes this allowed for easier assembly and the wheel got tighter as the spokes were pushed in place. Take apart according to the taper these are a breeze to restore.Sorry for the long post it's just an old guy rambling on. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinist_Bill Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks for posting Steve! Right now you are my best friend! In case of mental retardation on my part I may ask for more advise.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Quote...........Right now you are my best friend!......................Tossed out like a used washrag from a guy thats made two posts! Gotta love it Great post Steve, the biggest queery that I would have is what sort of wheel would allow the spokes to be put in ( or removed ) one at a time. Attempted this myself with no luck, I believe they have to be pressed in together but maybe there is more than one way to do it and I just didnt quite get the other.We are taking about two solid radiuses so even in theory I cant quite picture it without some special equipment.Possiby a clearer explanation of your technique would help, thanks Edited January 13, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Redelman Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Good Morning All, First I admit two posts and I am telling someone how to work on wheels? Jayson please forgive me I know not what I have done.You I hope, have a sense of humor I know I do. To give you all a little background about me I started restoring antiques back in the late 60's. My mentor was in his 70's back then and taught me a lot. I am now just an old tool&die-pattern maker that has restored many, many antique cars and aircraft over the years. Lets just say I have been around the block more that a time or two. I like Jason will bend over backwards to help anybody and if you lived near me you would be welcome to come over to take apart those wheels.The reason I posted was I just had a total shoulder replacement (left) and am looking forward to having the (right) done in the future. Not really! Also I was lurking here because I have a 1921 Dodge Bro.Touring (unrestored). To the wheels, as Jayson says you can press them apart and together with a press and if you do, press the center hub out the back of the rim this will minimize the damage to the back of the spokes, and when reassembling push them back together from the back. I have seen the top of spokes splinter because of being dry when being removed or re installed by using a press especially on smaller diameter wheels like late 20's early 30's with steel fellows that don't give. After you have done a few both ways a person will develop a technique which works best for himself and causes him the least work. Remember there is always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat. Good luck with the restoration. Steve Remember my $.02 is still only worth $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nice looking car Steve and I think I have a sense of humor although it may be considered a little sadistic at times by some No problem with the post and I hope to see you post more often, I am always eager to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Zetnick Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 When I was redoing my wheels DBer, Jan Arnett, helped me with how to get the spokes back in place. Get a styrafoam cup, 2 large non-bendable metal plates of some sort (I used 12" x 12" x 1/4" steel) w/ holes drilled in the center and a long threaded bolt (w large washers and nuts to fit)that will fit in the holes of the metal plates. You take bolt and put through end of one steel plate, secure with nuts and washers.You place this plate first on a flat surface with bolt standing up. Center hub over bolt and place center wheel rim around bolt. Put hole in bottom of cup and place upside down over hub w/ bolt going through bottom. Arrange spokes like a teepee with hub ends on top of cup and rim ends slightly inserted in place. Place remaining metal plate w/ washer and nut onto bolt. Tighten nut slowly. As you tighten, the top metal plate will force spokes into place squashing cup supporting them. Hope that makes sense ...it worked well for me....I did one wheel at a time and marked backs of spokes where marks wouldn't be seen covered by brake drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billstewart Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 When I replace some spokes in my wood wheel I used three big c champs,pulled them down a little at a time . I have done this with model t wheels and it has worked good for me,Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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