3-D Printer Unbelieveable! Jay Leno has one in his garage

[Guest bofusmosby]

I was sent this link, and thought you all might want to see this. From what the email said that a freind sent me, Jay Leno has one of these "printers" in his garage and uses it when he has to make molds for replacement parts that are no longer avaliable. Here's the link.

YouTube - ‪3D Printer‬‏

[Rusty_OToole]

Very cool, here is Leno doing a demo.

YouTube - ‪NextEngine 3D Scanner at Jay Leno's Garage‬‏

[Peter J.Heizmann]

I was sent this link, and thought you all might want to see this. From what the email said that a freind sent me, Jay Leno has one of these "printers" in his garage and uses it when he has to make molds for replacement parts that are no longer avaliable. Here's the link.

YouTube - ‪3D Printer‬‏

Jim.

I have 39 years in the grey & ductile iron foundry industry. We have used such 3-D methods for customers willing to pay for it. Gives their engineers or managers something to "touch" before spending the big bucks for production patterns.

I have "miniatures" of a 2 impression pattern and 1 corebox that I use to teach prospects/customers what sand casting is all about. As with a printer we all use on computers you can change the font size or page size. Same with 3-D. The "miniatures" I have could fit in your pocket whereas the actual equipment for molding is 20x24 for the pattern and it weighs 64 pounds. Architects use it also to make a miniature model, say, for a hospital and the detail can capture every aspect to include shrubbery around the entrance to the brick work or even the air conditioning units on the roof.

For our hobby, old vehicles, it can be a salty proposition. The cost of a 3-D for a commercial casting on average that I have experienced ranges from $800-$2,000 depending on the casting complexity. I have produced other low volume patterns such as urethane and wood of which they too are not cheap.

Many have approached me over the years inquiring what is involved to reproduce an exhaust manifold. The cost of the pattern and corebox (s) usually shocks them.

Appreciate you posting this as it serves as another tool to educate hobbyists in need of replacement castings. Also available is Rapidcast which builds up layer-after-layer of paper that is automatically cut as it goes then the model can actually withstand molding for a few pieces before it wears out.

(In advance, may have to move this to the Technical Forum eventually but will leave a re-direct on the General Forum).

Best,

Peter.

[Rusty_OToole]

Do you mean $8OO to $2OOO for a single casting or for a mold.

It appears a plastic model or pattern can be made in minutes.

Could this be done with lost foam casting using a computer made foam pattern.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you Peter, and please move it to where ever it belongs. I just felt that it would get the most views in the general forum. I would imagine that as time goes by, the process will become much cheaper, like everything else does. Its just amazing how without any disassembly, it will reproduce all the gears and all in working order.

[HarryJ]

The next engine unit is neat alright; yet for copying things any more complex than the White slide valve either a more sophisticated laser reader or a white light reader is required. I have been studying reproducing castings for some time. The technology exsists to laser read the parts into a computer , manipulatate the file and print out patterns or cores in three D mode. Costs can be brought within a affordable range I feel. I am not at liberty to say more in reference to available technologies; however, things have moved somewhat beyond this three year old technology.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Do you mean $8OO to $2OOO for a single casting or for a mold.

It appears a plastic model or pattern can be made in minutes.

Could this be done with lost foam casting using a computer made foam pattern.

Hi, Rusty.

Just for the 3-D model these printers produce. Yes, a urethane (plastic) or model can be made however I disagree with "minutes". The CAD Model must be made first if a new part is the subject or reverse engineering off an existing spent part...this can get very salty. Even lost foam is time consuming money one has to be charged.

Bottom line, there are all sorts of methods out there today to produce "new" castings to "replication of an existing casting". The payback for the CAD time/service, cost of the patterns and coreboxes if required, actual molding whether it be Lost Foam, Sand Casting, Die Casting, Volumes of castings the customer requires, etc., all comes into play.

We found the hard way with Urethane (plastic) patterns for example. 10-12 years ago we thought this to be the best thing since my TR6 starts when I want it to. Urethane was cheaper for impressions mounted on aluminum plates. Well, as Urethane is petroleum based, the patterns would dry out and actually lift the impressions or crack them simply from heat and humidity changes in tooling storage. The 'ole "pay for good tooling up front or pay me later" syndrome. As things progressed, more of what is left of U.S. foundries have found it cheaper to CNC out of tool steel. Again, all depends on how many parts the customer desires. Many factors to take into account.

Best,

Peter.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Thank you Peter, and please move it to where ever it belongs. I just felt that it would get the most views in the general forum. I would imagine that as time goes by, the process will become much cheaper, like everything else does. Its just amazing how without any disassembly, it will reproduce all the gears and all in working order.

I agree, Jim, that many things will become cheaper after new technologies are introduced, however, as with chrome plating the preparation is the most time consuming (and costly).

Harry J. visited me when I was at my former. Harry is a very techinical guy and from a sand casting operation he saw first hand what the cost of patterns can cost.

The actual molding / core making (if required for the part), and, a foundry to make 1 or 2 pieces is a totally different subject money and availability-wise.

Here is a real-time example (yesterday) to give one an idea of cost for a commercial casting:

--Class 30 (30,000 p.s.i.) casting with no coreboxes required: Quoted this 2 impression (2 castings per mold) pattern for $4800. (CNC tool steel).

--If this part took a tool steel corebox for discussion purposes to create the internal dimensions of a hollow casting: Add another $4,000 = $8800

Bottom line: One must pay a patternmaker to create the equipment, or, pay the CAD service to create the CAD Model then pay the foundry to pour the casting to include making the cores if required, and so on.

Checking out for tonight...

Peter J.

Best,

Peter.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Peter J.Heizmann (see edit history)

[MochetVelo]

Leno seems to say you can just take the plastic parts and use them for patterns to cast in metal. I thought it would be necessary to make cores, etc. to do this (?)

Phil

[Guest Xprefix28truck]

Lenos suggestion of that is totally false. I am presently doing pattern work at a Toyota foundry. To simply take a plastic model and use it as a pattern would be near impossible. The only way you could use it directly to make a part would be, if one of the major surfaces was flat, and also a solid casting. The major concern in making a pattern for a part is the "parting line". Cores must be made to match a parting line in reference to the specific part. Any "negative point" of the casting will change the "parting line". Another major thing that would make it near impossible is "relief draft" to make the molding process even possible.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

1. bofusmosby (Jim’s) referenced 3-D Printer post:

--The “prototype” pattern they produced for one of my experiences noted was for a very well known appliance manufacturer. The customer had vibration problems called to their attention by consumers who bought their washing and drying machines designed for apartments. We tackled producing a ductile iron bar that incorporated 2 cores. The castings were used to shore-up the 4 corners of the machine’s chassis which was a stamping assembly.

--Produced the prototype ductile castings on a B&P automatic molding machine. Had to adjust the squeeze pressure of the “blown-in” molding sand carefully so as not to crush the prototype pattern that this 3-D Printer produced. Made 7 samples satisfactorily. Really slick.

--Coreboxes for this part: Same method as the pattern. Had to produce 2 coreboxes and made the prototype cores out of air-set sand (chemically bonded sand).

--Note: In both cases above, the prototype pattern and 2 coreboxes “were ONLY intended to make a few pieces. The surface finish of the prototype casting’s granular surface finish was a bit rough compared to using the eventual “CNC Tool Steel” production pattern again due to cutting back on the squeeze pressure of the molding sand on the automatic molding line.

2. Rusty_O Toole’s post reference Jay Leno:

--This in my opinion was a very interesting however appeared to be a scripted advertisement that failed a few times to properly and accurately describe the manufacturing method to achieve the desired part. Jay mentioned giving the piece to a machinist-and- initially mentioned giving the piece to a foundry…back and forth. Found that to be confusing.

--Jay failed to mention coreboxes that would have to be made and paid for by the customer if a corebox is required. As I mentioned in my earlier long winded post you are not looking at the pattern cost and corebox costs.

--The sample Jay was showing was very hard to see if a core would be needed for the underside of his casting. From what I saw it could be produced without a core. We have used urethane many times for parts that not “flat” but have a “a recessed undercut similar to, say, a valve cover casting. In this case we would take a stock sheet of aluminum and CNC the O.D. of the part. Next we would pour the urethane impression into the “CNC cutout” of the O.D. The parting line would then be at the bottom edge of the impression on the “drag side” of the mold. Both of our subject methods noted here produce the necessary draft to pull the pattern impression from the molding sand (normally 2-4 degrees depending on the size of the desired casting).

3. Xprefix28truck (Kent):

--Parting lines using both methods of these 3-D methods are easily produced. Jay’s demonstration did not mention it. I have used and seen it many times. For prototype or short run purposes the foundry mounts them on a plate with the normal Cope & Drag sides. Same with the coreboxes. We have as did my former many patterns of urethane mounted on aluminum with undercuts in the impression (again, the urethane patterns have about a 5 year shelf life before they start lifting or drying and cracking).

--Ironically, we made upwards of 60-120,000 castings per month for a power steering pump housing utilized by a very well known vehicle company (hint…you won’t have to look far). Unfortunately the grey iron housing jobs were lost by us to the changeover to aluminum for weight reduction if I recall correctly.

4. MochetVelo (Phil):

--Good question: Cores are only needed for a hollow casting or one that incorporates a reverse draft undercut. As I mentioned I could not see closely the part Jay was waiving around.

Summation:

--Neither referenced the cost of producing the desired parts weather for once-and-done 1 piece or high volume parts. Both methods are very good for dimensional checks “prior to going to a machinist or foundry or forge works before signing off to produce the tooling. Cost and what you are willing to pay. No difference than all the posts about vehicle restoration pricing we have read over the years on the AACA Forum.

--The Crescent Wrenches that work for example: These are forged steel. I would scare the daylights out of you to mention the cost of the production dies to forge such a high production part.

--In Jay’s case, he was all exited about how the 3-D mechanism worked. He did not mention what it would take “cost-wise” to produce the part in ferrous or non-ferrous material.

Sorry for the long winded post. This can be very confusing (boring) to many and I wish there was a way of a real time show & tell.

Thanks to all for their input here.

Peter J.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Peter, I really appreciate you going into detail on this. When I saw this video, I had no idea there was such a thing. I guess it all boils down to if you have enough money, this might make it easier. Of course, when we are talking about someone like Jay Leno, cost is not a concern.

[HarryJ]

Technology is moving ahead rapidly.............Here are a couple of rapid prototyping technologies on the market today..................20 hours from design to on a race car!

and printinhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8MaVaqNr3Ug the sand.........no pattern!

[HarryJ]

Let me try to insert the 3-D sand printing one again.

[Restorer32]

It's a two edged sword. As modern technology makes high volume parts production faster, more accurate and less expensive it also tends to obsolete the simpler hand work methods making it even more difficult for the restorer who needs just 1 or 2 parts made. We use an Amish foundry and even there they often have to bring out the "old man" to show them how to cut a parting line on a casting when using an original part as a pattern.

[RU22]

Poland has traditional craftsmen .... many do work at home after their day jobs. I can get high standard items made at a reasonable price and these guys know 'close don't work' The general economy isn't really good and everyone is happy to have the extra work.