Something to consider...

[NCReatta]

I've heard many people say multiple times that this is the most active forum on the AACA site.

So, I ask this question.

Is it because we have highly problematic cars? Or just because we have a lot of people who are fanatical about their cars?

Just something to consider..

[Booreatta]

Its mostly because we have many fanatic folks that like the Reatta, and we have a good fight now and again

Lots of good information shared here from everybody

Chuck

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Yes

[Guest Richard D]

maybe 10% trouble searching, 89% fanatical about their Reattae 1% looking to throw gas on a fire.

I have learned a tremendous amout of information just by using the search feature and asking an question now and then. Most folks here will bend over backwards to help someone they never met. I once asked a question about my cruise control, 2 days later a replacement servo showed up from that guy in Orlando who has many carpets. Would not accept shipping cost. Plus there are members who have their own sites, thank's to Ronnie I flushed my brakes and read how to fix countless other items. It may not be long before Jim F. has enough recycled parts to build a Reatta! GREAT FORUM

Edited May 31, 2011 by Richard D (see edit history)

[Guest Double M]

It is because we have highly problematic cars that people are fanatical about.

It is sort of a Modern day Corvair...

Advanced Technology for its time.

A sales disapointment.

Major safety issues.

Unique hard to find parts.

Cancelled due to poor sales.

No offence to Corvair people!

Consider that.

[NCReatta]

Major safety issues.

Unique hard to find parts.

Safety issues? such as..? I've never had any problems with any of mine, and never heard of anyone having safety problems either..

Roughly 70% of the parts are interchangeable with the Riviera, or other Buick models. I have never had a problem finding any part that I need for any of my cars. Have you?

Just wanting to clarify.

[Guest Double M]

Uh...

...perhaps reading this very forum can enlighten you to the very dangerous Brake System that can fail without warning that does not have an emergency brake as part of it's design.

Perhaps you never have heard of Accumulator Failure or heard of the Brake Test we all do to figure out just how bad our brakes are. These are well documented facts in this forum and others. I have seen other sites with dozens of complaints with people calling out for a class action law suit as well.

Maybe you have missed all the posts about upgrading, replacing and/or modifing these brakes with parts from other cars that do not suffer from this problem.

There seems to be a post almost every week about this problem.

I love the car, but I do not let that love blind me to the facts.

Dont shoot the messenger, even if it is easier to do.

[Guest Double M]

Lets not forget to address the hard to find parts for issue as well, the affore mentioned Accumulator is no longer produced and we are left with leftovers, NOS stock.

Does anyone make those Plastic fenders? Door Panels? Interior panels? Almost every specific part to the Reatta is hard to find due th the low initial production and attrition.

How about the glass that is only produces in very limited numbers and cost a fortune, with little hope of getting a used one, due to its inital poor design, a design that precludes removing the Windshield or back glass with a bonded gasket?

Dont get me started on the headlights, that so commonly fail, that we have 2 different people selling repair kits of their own, hopefully better designs.

I recently met up with a 1991 Reatta Engineer and we discussed all of this.

These are the things that the fanatical seem to have missed.

I am not putting the car down, just stating the obvious facts, man.

Now we have CLARIFICATION.

[DAVES89]

The engineers did design a warning for the brake system. There is both an amber light to warn one that the ABS has failed, as well as a red light to warn one that there is an issue with the brakes. If one was to then read the owners manual it would explain that one should take the vehicle to a mechanic to be checked out and not drive the car until the issue is resolved.

It is documented in your 3/28/2011 post that your brakes are now fixed at the cost of $400.00 for two calipers and an accumulator. From that same post your amber [ABS] light is still on, however once again you are ignoring that. As per that post, the only reason you took the car in for repairs was that the drivers side caliper finally "locked up" causing you to get the car repaired [not "just" pulling to the left while stopping at high speeds].

I am willing to bet that the red light was coming on and going off on a fairly regular basis which is why the mechanic replaced that as well. I also would be willing to bet that the one time occurance you experienced with your brakes going soft is that you now have a "weak" pump motor as your pump probably was working too hard to "pump up" a failing accumulator, and now that too may need to be replaced.

I apoligize to others for stealing this post, but in my opinion I had to address your issue with a "bad" brake design.

[Guest Double M]

The only thing worth ignoring here is you. You would loose that bet by the way. My red light has never come on, except for when first started up, like everyone elses does, it only came on once, a few days ago while driving. The lights also never came on when I had a Caliper fail. You abilty to read posts and twist the info or just get it wrong is amazing. If the rest of your facts are as wrong as the ones you post here about me and about my brake issues, you will be ignored by many others too.

It is a very well known fact that one of the major problems with the Reatta is its brake system. There are plenty of other people you can argue with about it.

Dave here is a Drama Queens that has to apologize for his actions, The action of hijacking a thread to bring attention to himself, as he did in this and my other post. He had nothing but sarcasm and faulty facts to say there as well.

So I will apologize for Dave's posts. I however cannot apoligize for the historical facts.

[DAVES89]

I was warned to not respond to your posts. I should have listened. You will have no further comment from me.

However there was a gentleman that used to post quite a bit here and has now left the forum. His signature I always took as quite funny, however it is appropiate here;

"Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience"...

Edited June 1, 2011 by DAVES89
spelling (see edit history)

[Guest Double M]

I just did a a Google search under "Reatta Brake Problems" The results showed over 25 pages from just the AACA forum alone. To deny these facts is simply silly or blind fanatism at its best. So to anyone that wants to dispute these facts go dispute them with all those other people. Please. I'll be too busy diagnosing my own "non-existant" Reatta Brake Problem.

[KDirk]

I hate to enter this argument now, but I would point out something that is being overlooked. The Teves ABS system generally worked fine for the intended lifespan of the car. Reatta's were not made to be collectible, they [like most any car made in the 1980's and 90's] were made to appeal to a certain market segment (which didn't work so well as we know from the sales numbers), and get driven for 7-10 years. It was likely assumed that most of these cars would not be around much past 12-15 years. There was no way of knowing then that it would develop a cult of admirers.

That being said, the problem is that those of us who really like this car are facing a problem common to many less common semi-collectible cars: some parts are wearing out for which there are no proper or decent replacements. This is because, due to increased interest in this car well after it's initial production, many are being run well beyond their planned life span. That there are so many on the road still speaks to the quality of the design and build (some idiosyncrasies excepted).

I would agree the 88-90 ABS system is a problem now, and is going to be a bigger problem in the next 5-7 years unless some reproduction parts or complete retrofit to another system is made available for the benefit of Reatta owners. But again, these cars were not meant to be run as daily drivers 20-23 years after they were first built. There is definitely an unusually high number of cars still around. Do this: search Jaxed site mash for 88-91 Rivieras, then search 88-91 Reattas. Look at how many more Reattas are for sale, versus Rivieras, when many more Rivi's were made in that time frame.

A large percentage of Rivieras are apparently gone, since they are not seen for sale in large numbers, nor or that many still seen on the road. Yet, there are a disproportionately high percentage of surviving Reattas by comparison judging by the quantity of ads. This tells me there is interest in the car that is causing people to keep them going despite some difficulties.

As far as other reliability/safety issues, I do not regard the headlamps as a design flaw. The parts just wear out. This is to be expected with anything mechanical. Further, unlike the brake system, the headlamps are easily repaired with parts that are better than new from at least 3 different vendors who post here on the forum. So, to make a big issue of the headlamp cranks is much ado about nothing IMO. I consider this a routine and expected repair for a car made two decades ago.

The technology angle of these cars is somewhat complex, but no more so than the Rivi of the same years, or any Cadillac of the same period. Yes, it adds another thing that one must be knowledgeable about to service the car, but these cars are not known for terrible electrical systems. Jaguars take that prize; Reattas, save for the periodic CRT or IPC failure, are pretty darn solid where the electronics are concerned, especially for cars that are nearly a quarter century old.

What we see here on the forum are the owners having problems. This is to be expected, as this is a resource that is used to help people maintain their cars. So, we should not be surprised to see many questions about problems with these cars, and frequently the same issues will be asked about because that is where the majority of problems are occurring at the age these cars are now.

Does anyone expect a 20+ year old car not to need more repair and maintenance than one that is new, or even 5 years old? Not if they know what they are talking about. No car can be design and built to last indefinitely. And GM of the late 80's certainly was not of the mindset that they should be selling cars that would run 20 years, as that decreases their future sales expectations.

Overall, I'd say they did a good job, especially considering much of the other product that was being produced out of Detroit at the time; and there were some dogs, no doubt! Anyone who doesn't wish to deal with challenges of maintaining an 20+ year old car should just not own one. If an uneventful ownership experience is what you seek, get a new non-descript homogenized boring sedan with a factory warranty and stop complaining already.

One last thing, there are many obscure cars (moreso than the Reatta) that have much less availability of parts than we currently enjoy. Yet, owners of these cars manage to keep them going. Ingenuity is required, and anyone who is not up to the challenge will be frustrated by the experience.

KDirk

[NCReatta]

First of all, I am not looking to get into an argument.

Secondly, accumulator failure will not make your entire brake system go out, simply the ABS.

Class action law suit? Dozens? Where? Can you prove that?

Most GM vehicles of the era have the same PARKING brake mechanism.

My friend's '08 Toyota Avalon has a similar system. If it didn't work well enough, do you think they'd keep doing it?

Most of the upgrades are to just give you bigger rotors. While yes, some people like to convert to more conventional ABS systems because they're easier to service, the Teves system isn't the plague.

Yes, we are stuck with NOS accumulators. but we an still get them, right? Same thing with the windshields. Yes, they're pricy, but you can still get them if you need one. It's not like they're impossible to find. With the rear glass, I had one installed in my '89, from my '89 parts car. The back bonded gasket wan't too great, so the installer just shaved it off and installed a new rubber gasket. It hasn't leaked a drop. While this probably can't be done with a windshield, it works great for the back glass.

All body panels, and interior panels aren't difficult to find, and often in pretty good condition too. If they aren't the right color, you can either, repaint the body panels, or paint the interior panels with SEM. Door panels can be recovered by a good auto upholsterer.

Call Mike Rukavina, email Jim Finn, myself, as well as a few others that have access to several parts cars. It isn't Rocket Science.

Headlights. There are 3, not 2, different replacement crank arm kits available. Your headlights can be trouble free, probably for the life of the car, for a price that isn't all too bad. And all the kits ARE better. They're all made from steel as opposed to the soft pot-metal that the OEM stuff was.

Ok, so Reattas have their problems. But doesn't every car? And yes, you have to shell out some money occasionally in order to get your car right sometimes.

I will say that the two parts that are hardest to get when you need them are 1) the door weatherstripping for the convertible tops. and 2) the '90 headlight switch.

There doesn't seem to be much of a resolution for these items... yet. The car doesn't have a HUGE following yet, but give it a few years, and more and more people will come up with really good solutions.

Edited June 1, 2011 by NCReatta (see edit history)

[padgett]

And the answer for many was to choose to replace the Teves with a non ABS unit from a Riviera or something and put the Teves in a big baggie for the next owner. There are other possibilities. I chose to keep the Teves and maintain it properly.

Keep in mind that the Teves was used from 1986 through 1990 on a number of other GM cars though on most it was an expensive option. I often thought the idea was for a diesel option (diesels have no vaccuum) that never appeared ("diesel fuel" can be seen in the 88 IPC). Note also that GM also had their own PowerMaster non-ABS electrohydraulic brake system for cars and trucks with either very low or no engine vacuum so it was not a unique design.

Also I have never checked but suspect most Teves went to european cars that were not imported.

[Guest Recian]

im kinda curious about the 90 headlight switch now because im having a harder time finding the 4-button 89 switch than the 3-button reatta/riviera switches. And i'll have to say we're most active because of both. problem cars and people that love them anyway

[wws944]

On one of the videos in the 3 video set, Barney or someone asked the Reatta engineers why they chose the Teves unit. Their reply was that it was the best ABS in the industry at the time. The same unit was used a lot of premium cars - both domestic and foreign.

Yes, GM had and has hydroboosters that operate off the power steering pump. They are used in heavier duty GM trucks - both gas and Diesel. However I came across a blurb about the Teves system in an old magazine (maybe Popular Mechanics?) They said one of the advantages of integrating the pump and ABS with the master cylinder was that it could all be tested as a unit at the factory. Certainly a quality advantage for Buick as would leave fewer chances of problems on the assembly line.

My hat is off to those who drive their Reattas daily and keep them well maintained. And even more to those who adopt neglected ones and return them to their former glory - often with significant improvements along the way (e.g., supercharging.) It is sad seeing some in wrecking yards that have minimal or even no body damage. And it is great that there is such a wealth of information here to keep them out of the yards.

As for the occasional flame war here? Mere tussles, compared to some of the usenet flame wars of times gone by. (Been on the 'net long before there was a www...)

[Guest Recian]

ya know ive noticed ive never seen a reatta with body damage. even the rare few ive seen at the u-pull it have pristine bodies. mine does too just needs a paint job

[padgett]

Some of the northern cars do get rust usually in the rear wheel wells. Brake and fuel lines can be an issue. In the Souf it is more sun damage to paint/interior/rubber.

BTW the GM PowerMaster brake system had an electric motor/pump and accumulator just operates at a much lower pressure than the Teves.

Operating way past the "sell by" date is part of the reason I run all of my cars about 10% cooler than stock.

Have seen many cars of all kinds in yards that did not seem like they should be there. May be that people just gave up on something obscure.

[Guest Recian]

knowing these cars it probably had some off the wall electrical problem and someone didnt wana fix it. i know the one i found today had a faulty driver power seat cuz when i pulled the door switch i found the orange wire broken that goes to the seat controls and the only reason i know that's what it's for is cuz mine had the exact problem when i got it, had to trace that broken power wire to the door jam where the harness bends