6volt starter front cover shatters,why?

[Guest DBAcadia]

Hi all, My 1927 DB sedan built in late'26 is almost resurrected. Starts, runs,

everything fine until I noticed the front cover to the starter looked

all cracked. It's either cast aluminum or pot metal, different from

rest of starter body. Other day it looked hot,( wisp of smoke thru

cracks) and small pieces fell away (shattered). What would cause

this to happen? My old battery indicated full charge but would not

turn starter. I thought starter was gone.Replaced with new 6v battery

and starter worked perfectly until this shattering. Could new battery

cause this? Also, when I installed old battery initially it may of

not had good ground to repainted frame (stupid mistake). Corrected

that and old battery still wouldn't turn her but new one did fine.

Did I cook something initially or has this happened to others. Why

is the cover different material? My '26 sedan is identical except

steering shaft and its' starter does not have this type front cover.

Was this change made to be a "weak link" to blow out first?

[nearchoclatetown]

Poor design, it's pot metal. I doubt anything you did caused it. I think Vern or someone makes a replacement.

[dwollam]

ALL of the old 6 volt DB starter end covers are falling apart! As Doug said, they are pot metal.

[Guest DBAcadia]

Thanks, that makes me feel better. Next questions are 1) If I replace the

cover what may be going on (smoke) that might just shatter the replacement also? 2) Can I continue to use the starter (appears to have the ability still) or is that not recommended? I could crank by hand if necessary,

and anyhow she's inside and warm until Spring. All advice highly appreciated.

Tommy

[nearchoclatetown]

Not seeing the starter or able to put a meter on it I would guess that because the end is crumbling the armature is not running true in the bearing. So the fields could be touching the armature, NOT GOOD. I wouldn't use it any more until you can fix it or the end plate won't be the only problem.

[fsnooks]

Had the same problem..End plate is $175.00!!!!!!!! One reason is the other end of the Armature where it kicks into the flywheel is broken and then when you try to start it forces forward and brakes the end plate. DON'T just replace the end plate. I did that and lasted 2 weeks...another $175.00. Get the end plate and take it to a professional shop to have it rebuilt. I did that and it now works like a charm.

Fred

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

We offer the rebuilt service with new end plate also the center plate that is between the armuture and bendix will have to be replace as this is also potmetal too.

Call 888-827-7601

Vern.

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Same thing just happened to me a week ago. I have two more of these motors and I am considering making a external plate to help support their end plates from the same fate. I think that the force of the starter bendix kicking in and out helps to hasten the pot metal's demise. That stupid switch on top has also crumbled on me twice. Northeast stuff always disintegrates. By the time you get a starter motor all dialed in, back to looking original, you'll have over $500 bucks invested. Maybe we could all have another casting made in the States to save some $$.

[Guest DBAcadia]

Yes, removal and rebuild it is,after I return from Amelia. Speedster almost

assembled, I will try and send pic later. Another question possibly for a new thread. I've used a '24 roadster or touring cowling from a doodlebug tractor I

recovered and of course the ignition switch hole in the dash is smaller than

the '27 switch. I have a 3 way switch for use without cowl lamps but have

installed cowl lamps. Can I hook up cowl lamps to run with headlights on

same switch (overloading)? Also, are ignition switches voltage exclusive,

i.e. old 3 way switch from 12 volt DB usable on 6volt DB? Relatedly, can I

use prettier 12 to 12 ammeter on 6 volt rather than the 20 to 20 (rusty)?

Much thanks from BaaHaaBaa,Maine.

[nearchoclatetown]

I'm guessing here, but I would think a 12 volt switch is heavy enough to run on 6. I might hook it up for a while and check to see how hot it got, or if it gets hot at all. HAve fun at Amelia, that's on my list of to do. Will you be in Hershey for the Elegance at Hershey in June?

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

Same thing just happened to me a week ago. I have two more of these motors and I am considering making a external plate to help support their end plates from the same fate. I think that the force of the starter bendix kicking in and out helps to hasten the pot metal's demise. That stupid switch on top has also crumbled on me twice. Northeast stuff always disintegrates. By the time you get a starter motor all dialed in, back to looking original, you'll have over $500 bucks invested. Maybe we could all have another casting made in the States to save some $$.

We make these casting BUT just makeing the castings is just part of the job.After the casting is made there's lot of maching to make a workable unit.The brush holders are made from potmetal also.Unles your lucky to fine a later end plate that has the brass brush holder.So lets see:

Pattern for the end plate $600.00-$1200.00

Pattern for the center Plate $ 600.00-$1200.00

Match plate for the starter switch..........$2500.00 min.

Match plate for the brush holders.........$2500.00 min.

Now we have the tooling to work withall we have to do is fine a foundry to pour us a reasonable qty.Like 25 pcs. of each.No way try 1500 pcs.of each min. Unless one is lucky to have a friend that will work with you.

This doesn't include labor and material for maching and assembling.

Now we get to the rebuilting the starter. The bendix needs to be replaced. good luck fineing a new one.Now we have to sent it out to have rebuilt and there's a shortage of shop that will do just one.If you do fine one the price is going to be high.How about Brushes,and brush springs.Did you know that the screws are not a standard thread?

Yeah $500.00 looks like a lot BUT ............

Vern.

[idrjoe_sandiego]

OK Vern. I hear you.

Just like the famous Frank Sinatra lyrics:

"Why not use your mentality, step up, wake up to reality"

Don't you know, little fool, you never can win?

I guess I'll have to pony up the $500.

Thanks for the reality check.

How similar are the 1927 starters and the 1929 DA starters?

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

The neck that fits into the houseing may be of different size there's 2 different size a short and long neck short for the 26-27 6 volt so the armuture will be different.Borth starters would have the same end plate.

Vern

[Guest Knucklebuster]

I know the problems getting a part produced for the masses but I have a question for the pro's here. In actuality could a person with experience and a mill/drill and lathe feasibly reproduce the parts necessary to fix the starter? Im going to be starting on my resto soon and wondering if this might be a good idea to try?

Or should i just Sinatra it and pony up the money haha?

[Rusty_OToole]

White metal or pot metal crumbles eventually. Even toys from the twenties and thirties are falling apart, not due to heat or wear or stress just the metal only lasts so long. I guess they never expected anyone would still be driving their cars 80 years after they were built. They probably planned for a life of about 10 years.

[Guest 1930]

A person with enough patience and time can do ANYTHING they set their mind to do, its all in how bad do you want the end result.

Edited March 6, 2011 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

Knuckelbuster:

To make a end plate one would have to start with a 4 inch or large peice of material Alum.,steel or what ever,lots of machine work.

Then there's the inside center plate that should be replace as this is also made from "potmetal"along with the brush holder.Lots of machine time. If you could buy the raw matel without buying 10-12 feet.

We just order two 12 feet of 13/16 hex. along with other raw material cost was $240.00 just for the hex + delivering to the shop.

I'd hate to ask what a 4 inch joint of Alum. would cost.

Good luck

Vern

Edited March 7, 2011 by Backyardmechanic (see edit history)

[fsnooks]

Myers Early Dodge has the end plate.

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

So does ROMAR with bronze bushing and brush holders.

[Paul Bohlig]

If your front cover is good, not shattered then at the very minimum replace the center plate which takes the brunt of the kick back. When I did mine I also found space for a small fiber or plastic washer in front of the center plate to further absorb some kick back shock. New center plates steel, old pot metal, obviously.

Paul

[Guest DBAcadia]

Here are some pics. Nope. Trying again. Security tokens? Failed again.

going to check e-mail to see if administrator sent explanation. Any help?

[Guest DBAcadia]

here's another try

[Guest 1930]

Great job, looks like fun

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

DBA,

Nice ride!

[Guest DBAcadia]

What it was.

[Guest 1930]

Nice nose