Guest chaos225 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I am the proud owner of a 60 buick electra 225 convertable. I have been having charging problems. It started when I removed the generator to paint it. When I reinstalled the generator the gen light was on. I thought that I had hooked up the wires wrong and reversed them. DOH!!! I didnt know that you had to polorize it after you have unhooked it. So, I have sence leared how to polorize the generator. I tested the generator with the motor test and it spun very well. Next I changed the voltage regulator and repolorized the system. The gen light is still on and im out of ideas. There is what looks to be a relay above the regulator where the feild wire and arm wire connect to. I dont know what it is called and I suspect that it might be the problem. If anyone can help me I would be very gratefull.:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 A little help here guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 The new paint may be interfering with the ground connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shorttimer Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In addition to checking the paint for ground interference, I would also check the continuity in the wires, just to veriify something didn't break internally within the harness between the generator and regulator. You may also want to check the input and output voltage at the regulator to verify operation of both the regulator and the generator.I have also attached several diagrams from the shop manual which may be useful to you in your troubleshooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaos225 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The new paint may be interfering with the ground connection. Yeah. that was my first thought. I took out the brushes and cleand them off. there was a litle paint on them. Im prety sure the generator is good. when i polorized it, it spun like it should. I replaced the regulator, and the gen light is still on. Ive got continuity on all of the wires from the gen and the reg. the only thing left to look at is what looks like a relay that the arm wire from the regulator leads to and three othe wires that come off of it and run into the harness that goes into the car. This is my last suspect, but I dont know what its called. Thanks for your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaos225 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In addition to checking the paint for ground interference, I would also check the continuity in the wires, just to veriify something didn't break internally within the harness between the generator and regulator. You may also want to check the input and output voltage at the regulator to verify operation of both the regulator and the generator.I have also attached several diagrams from the shop manual which may be useful to you in your troubleshooting.Thanks for the diagrams. They were realy helpfull. I think ive narowed the problem down to what looks to be the starter relay? It conects to the regulators arm terminal. It also has what looks like a cappacitor that goes to the BAT terminal of the regulator. could either of these be the problem? Ive checked for continuity. did a motor test on the generator and it spun like a champ. Once agin thanks for your reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shorttimer Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 That should be your starter relay. Since current to the GEN light doesn't appear to actually flow from the generator/regulator through the starter relay (the wires share a common external terminal as shown on the cranking diagram attached), I don't think it is your issue. The attached instrument check diagram also discusses the function of the GEN light and would seem to indicate your issue is either low voltage (from the regulator or generator) or an open circuit somewhere between the GEN light and the generator. Are you able to verify the voltage from the generator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Woody3 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I have an intermittent problem with the generator light on my 60 Invicta and I found I had a sticking points problems in the voltage regulator. Have you tried tapping lightly with your finger on the regulator. Just a thought for simplicity!!! It worked to open the points for me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 the gen is really a simple circuit, really only have 3 wires, you have the ARM which goes from the ARM terminal of the gen to the ARM of the regulator, then FLD (field) from the generator to the FLD of the regulator, and the third from the BAT of the regulator to the Battery... Simple way to check the generator is to remove both wires off the generator, Put a volt meter from the ARM terminal to Ground, and an old working headlight as a load (voltage may go above16V, with a test lead with the engine running, connect the field terminal to Ground or the the bat terminal, Not sure which one, depends on the internal wiring of the generator, if the other side of the field is grounded internally or connected to the ARM terminal, One Should produce a good output of the generator.. if it does then check the three wires, and make sure the regulator is grounded good as well, you dont need the capactor, run without it for testing, it for noise supression for the radio..if the gen checks out (you can also make sure its running the right polarity too) and the wires are ok,, you only have the regulator left,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrlforfun Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 OK 60 Guy: Check the fuseable link. It looks like a memory card by the battery. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 OK 60 Guy: Check the fuseable link. It looks like a memory card by the battery. MitchWhetever you do...do NOT remove the fuseable link. Replace it if necessary. One of our members recently had a fire due to the VR sticking and the wiring melted away without the protection of the fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Riviera Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 It might be a good time to switch to an alternator ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaos225 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 the gen is really a simple circuit, really only have 3 wires, you have the ARM which goes from the ARM terminal of the gen to the ARM of the regulator, then FLD (field) from the generator to the FLD of the regulator, and the third from the BAT of the regulator to the Battery... Simple way to check the generator is to remove both wires off the generator, Put a volt meter from the ARM terminal to Ground, and an old working headlight as a load (voltage may go above16V, with a test lead with the engine running, connect the field terminal to Ground or the the bat terminal, Not sure which one, depends on the internal wiring of the generator, if the other side of the field is grounded internally or connected to the ARM terminal, One Should produce a good output of the generator.. if it does then check the three wires, and make sure the regulator is grounded good as well, you dont need the capactor, run without it for testing, it for noise supression for the radio..if the gen checks out (you can also make sure its running the right polarity too) and the wires are ok,, you only have the regulator left,, Ive tryed to do that test but the car will not run with the generator unhooked. I did do I think its called a motoring test on the gererator and it spun realy good. Ive also replaced the regulator and it hasnt changed any thing. Ive even cheked for continuity on all of the wires that run to the gen and the ones that run from the starter relay to the steering colum. I am out of ideas on what is wrong. I suspect maby the starter relay but I was told that shouldent be it. It is probably something simple that I have over looked. Thats what it usualy ends up being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 that sounds odd that the car will not run with the generator connected, you mean if you disconnect the arm and the fld terminal it wont run?? all it needs to run is power to the ign coil, unless you have some miss placed wires on the regulator.. as even if the generator is disconnected you stil should get power to the coil with the ign turned on,,,the generator will spin ok as long as the brushes and the armature are good, there is enought magnetism left in the fields to run, but to charge you turn the field coils on and off to vary the output off the generator, the resudual magnetism left in the field coils is enought to excite the armature to produce a small output to power the fields... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Just though of somthing else,, Check the grounds, or just try adding a couple of extra ground wires from the motor to the body, and another to the frame and to the Neg of the battery and see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Ive tryed to do that test but the car will not run with the generator unhooked. I did do I think its called a motoring test on the gererator and it spun realy good. Ive also replaced the regulator and it hasnt changed any thing. Ive even cheked for continuity on all of the wires that run to the gen and the ones that run from the starter relay to the steering colum. I am out of ideas on what is wrong. I suspect maby the starter relay but I was told that shouldent be it. It is probably something simple that I have over looked. Thats what it usualy ends up being.The car should not start with a defective generator or if disconnected, but should run. With the key ON and tranny in neutral or park jump the wire going to terminal #2 on the starter relay to (+). It should crank and run so you can perform the outlined tests. The fact that it starts with the generator connected properly along with your other tests on the generator suggests that the generator is probably good and the grounds are good also.Test the voltage at the battery with and without the engine running.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 As long as the ignition coil gets power, and the starter turns the motor should start and run, almost sounds like the generator is supplying the ignition power, and not the battery, would check the wire from the bat terminal of the regulator to the battery, and also check that you have pover to the coil with the ignition on without the motor running... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaos225 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Just though of somthing else,, Check the grounds, or just try adding a couple of extra ground wires from the motor to the body, and another to the frame and to the Neg of the battery and see what happens Ok that kind of makes sence because when i was looking for a ground to spin the generator it would not ground unless the neg terminal was hooked to the battery. could the gen still be at fault even though it spun? thanks for you help. LOL!!! i need all the help i can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 for the generator to spin all your using it the armature , hooking the arm and ground up,, the field has to work for it to create an output,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I might have missed it, but can you take it to an Autozone or Napa store and have them check the generator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaos225 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I might have missed it, but can you take it to an Autozone or Napa store and have them check the generator? I allready asked autozone and they said they dont test geneators. but there is a place close to me that rebuilt my starter, I might have to pay him a visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaos225 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 for the generator to spin all your using it the armature , hooking the arm and ground up,, the field has to work for it to create an output,,im just goning to have to admit defeat and take the generator to the guy that rebuilt my starter, and have him test it. I guess I cant win them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhambulldog Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Chaos225,Any better luck with your car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaos225 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Not yet, but I think Ive narrowed it down to the generator itself. I have another generator from a parts car. the bodie is different but the internals all look the same. If this fails I guess I will be off to the rebuild shop. Thanks for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhambulldog Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If it's 12v and 30amp; it will work. As, long as, the pulley/belt lines up.Good Luck:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaos225 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If it's 12v and 30amp; it will work. As, long as, the pulley/belt lines up.Good Luck:D I decided to take the armature, the front and back out of the generator on the car and put them inside the body of the spare generator. It worked. I now have between 13 and 14.5 volts at idle. This was defeintly a learning experance. I am very thankfull for all the help and advice everybody has gave me. :D:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chaos225 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hey everybody. I have solved the charging problem. I had a spare generator from a parts car. The front and back was different then the generator I had on the car, but the internals were the same and all I had to do was put the armature, the front and back of the original one and put it on the body of the spare. It worked!!!!! now I have between 13 and 14.5 volts at idle. WHOOO HOOOO!!!!!! Thank you all for you help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhambulldog Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Good Work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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