15% Ethanol EPA change

[charlie1]

Just read that the EPA has approved a change from 10% to 15% for Ethanol in gasoline with a note for 2007 cars or newer.

Any thoughts on what we are to do to keep our older cars on the road and running properly ?

Their goes the gas mileage!

Lets not go political on this one Please!

[Guest reatta1991]

And I wonder if gas stations will add 3 new pumps and new tanks for the new gas...regular hi-ethanol, mid grade hi-ethanol and premium hi-ethanol? Or will we soon find that "one pump fits all?" I certainly hope not!

[Barney Eaton]

Last week I was in Kansas and many stations carried (1) unleaded with no ethanol

(2) 10E which is unleaded with 10% ethanol (3) E85 which is 85% ethanol,

In Texas, the present law says they must use ethanol in regular unleaded up to 10% however many people believe the refineries here are using about 3%

It varies all over the US and there should be some standard....... but every state wants to be boss.

If you do a search on the blending of mid-grade it varies between brands but is close to 60% regular and 40% premium. Premium apparantly does not have any ethanol.

And a recent talk show suggested you use premium in your lawn equipment to avoid problems.

Back to the ratio..... If regular has 10% ethanol and is blended with premium to make mid grade in the 60/40 ratio above, then the amount of ethanol is down to 6%. If they raise it to 15% and use the same ratio then it drops to 9%, or you could just use premium until they mandate ethanol in that also.

[Guest WEB 38]

With all this alcohol going into our gasoline How does Heet and Drygas stay in business? Why do people still buy the stuff? Bill WEB 38

[Rawja]

In high-density metropolitan areas 10% ethanol is currently mandated regardless of grade of gasoline for air quality purposes.

From what I've read our "modern" computerized cars should cope, it's the older cars that'll be the source of most the suffering if ethanol levels increase. As I see it, the question for Reattas is primarily how the various "soft" parts in the fuel delivery system will cope with the higher alcohol content.

[padgett]

The one question I have seen mixed and confusing answers on is "does ethanol burn [faster|slower|the same rate] as gasoline of the same octane ?

[Bushwack]

On a related topic, a good acquaintance owns an independent station in West Los Angeles that offers bio-fuel and ethanol. I asked him last May if it was worth the expense to convert two of his tanks and pumps for the fuels. His response was that it will be another 12-18 months before he recoups his cost for the one ethanol pump (he did the conversion in late 2007). It's still unknown when he'll recoup the cost for the bio-fuel pump (in a good month he'll pump 2,000 gallons). He didn't calculate the loss of revenue for not having these two pumps originally supplying 89 octane. He expected to recoup the expense of the ethanol pump within 12-18 months and 30 months for the bio-fuel pump. His remaining comments was that he'll probably convert the bio-fuel pump back to 89 octane.

[wws944]

On a related topic, a good acquaintance owns an independent station in West Los Angeles that offers bio-fuel and ethanol.... His remaining comments was that he'll probably convert the bio-fuel pump back to 89 octane.

Once again, thank the CARB. They enacted regulations which basically made it infeasible for the car makers to sell Diesel cars in the state for years. Trucks, yes. Passenger cars, no.

A neighbor of mine bought one of the very last TDI Jettas sold in the state about 10 years ago. He does a lot of highway driving, and regularly got over 50 mpg with it. No hybrid required! VW was finally able to jump through enough hoops to reintroduce them in just the last year or so. He just replaced the old Jetta with a new one. (Doesn't get quite as good MPG as the old one, but maybe as it breaks in it will get better.)

But I digress. According to the owners manual, our Reattas can handle E10 without problem. So there was at least some thought to ethanol-blended fuels when designing the fuel system.

[BrentS]

I just bought a new snow blower.........I found it interesting that is states "10% Max Ethanol" right on the gas cap.

I am really getting frustrated with the way things are going in this country......also being a boat owner....I have to deal with the risks/problems from the mandated 10% ethanol, here in NY.

[charlie1]

I purchased 20 gallons of gasoline and immediately treated with StaBil. It is stored in my shed for snowblowers and Lawnmowers. I am concerned about my 1989 and 1999 Riviera's we have in storage.

[Guest cngguy]

There is great pressure to increase the distribution of Ethanol. Mandated levels of renewable fuels are increasing. The most logical step would be to incentivize owners of E85 capable flex-fuel vehicles to actually use that fuel instead of gasoline. That is not what is happening. In most markets Premium gasoline has been predominently E10 for the past 2 years or so. Regular unleaded gasoline has been switched to mostly E10 over the past 8 months or so. Ethanol is an inexpensive additive to bring octane within an acceptable octane range for marketability of gas that wouldn't otherwise meet spec. If the pump you dispense from says "may contain up to 10% ethanol" you can be pretty sure it does. This is not good news for Reatta drivers. Fuel system conponents in our cars won't stand up to alcohol too long. In most markets nearly all gasoline is now E10 and it need not be labeled as such. E15 blend has been approved for 2007 or newer vehicles but how can that be controlled? Will we bring back full serve stations with trained attendents to dispense the proper fuel? Old car hobbiests are not uppermost in the minds of rulemakers. Be prepared to modify your Reatta to handle the fuel we get.

[padgett]

Mostly from the corn lobby. In truth, corn is terrible for producing ethanol, sweet sorghum and sugar beets are much better (why Brazil does so well). But facts never even give a politician pause.

[Guest cngguy]

Ethanol has a higher octane than gasoline but a lower BTU content (76KBTU/gal vs 114K BTU/gal) , that is why it is an acceptable octane booster. The problem arises in that low level blends of Ethanol create a lean burn condition. Running on E10 gives about 3.4% less power than running on gasoline. Engine management controls in the Reatta are set for stoic. 14.7:1, E10 burns at 13.8:1. No matter what your politics, no matter what you think of global warming, world peak oil running a Reatta on E15 will be problematic. Complex engine exhaust flow analysis done by the latest OBD's cannot be done by the 20+ year old system on a Reatta.

[padgett]

Where it gets compicated is when you factor in the catalyst. To keep them fuctioning requires excess fuel so the maps are designed slightly rich to begin with. This is going to bring it closer to stoic for E10.

I suspect they are not blending with 87 PON either but are probably using lower octne gasoline and relying on the ethanol to bring the octane back up. So the oil companies increase profit on the front end as well.

[Guest cngguy]

RBOB (reformulated gasoline blendstock for oxygen blending) is that gasoline that by itself doesn't meet acceptable octane levels. As if by magic, mix it with ethanol and the result is a product that may be distributed to fuel retailers, rather than sold as farm fuel or whatever they used to do with it.