Need radio advice, model #16085434

[heygibb]

I have another wiring issue I need some feedback on. On my 90, I had the radio/cassette combo originally (model # 16085374). The head unit crapped out...no sound at all to any speakers. Instead of replacing the capacitors, as suggested here, I decided to purchase a Delco unit that was the same size (1 1/2 DIN), but had a CD player instead (model # 16085434). The fellow selling it added an AUX input for mp3 play, so that is what I bought.

The CD unit seems to have the same connectors as my OEM, so I plugged it right up w/ no harness adapter needed. Unfortunately, I have no rear channels w/ this unit and have a tinny sounding front left channel. I returned the unit and was sent another that has the same symptoms. I'm thinking maybe the problem is on my end now, since he said he would bench test the replacement before he sent it my way. Before returning this unit, I wanted to see if these symptoms are recognizable by anyone else doing what I am doing here. My rear channels worked before my OEM head unit took a nose dive. I have never noticed my front left speaker sounding weak in comparison to the front right speaker. So, where should I start looking at troubleshooting this? The wires on the connectors don't look loose. I did notice the vertical female receptacle on the radio (the one off to itself, below the others) has a pin missing, whereas the OEM (cassette version) has all the pins in place. Is that a possible source of my problem?

If my OEM radio still worked, I'd plug it back in to check the channels and sound, but no dice. I do have a radio that came out of an 85 S10 that I might could use to troubleshoot the channels, but I can't get to it until tomorrow. I'm not even sure it has the same connections but it's worth a try.

As I have requested of Richard D, if anyone who has done this trade out could check their front left speaker for how it's output compares to the front right, I would appreciate it. I really don't want to send this second unit back if I can get it to play as it should.

Thanks everyone.

Tim

[Rawja]

The radio from the '85 if it's the original OEM unit from '85 has different connectors. Not saying you can't make it work, but you'll need adapters, so it's not a quick-swap candidate for troubleshooting.

Since you're having the identical problem with both radios, the problem is likely within your car, not the head units. The Radios of this vintage all used the identical wiring configuration, I've swapped around tons of them over the years. Maybe you have a friend with an 80's - 90's (up to about '96 AFAIR) radio you can swap to test?

[heygibb]

Thanks for your reply. Except for that one pin missing on one connector, the connections appear to be the same configuration. The connectors all line up as they should. But on the surface, it does appear the issue is on my end, not the radio.

I'm going to remove my radio from my 89 Sierra and see if it has the same harness connectors. If it does, I'll plug the new radio into it to see how it works. At the same time, I'll plug the OEM radio I took from the Sierra a while back into the Reatta's harness. I have to go pick it up first though.

I'm hoping someone has made the switch to this radio model on their own Reatta. Did they have issues or not, is what I want to find out.

[NCReatta]

heygibb, Where in eastern NC are you located?

[heygibb]

I'm going to remove my radio from my 89 Sierra and see if it has the same harness connectors. If it does, I'll plug the new radio into it to see how it works. At the same time, I'll plug the OEM radio I took from the Sierra a while back into the Reatta's harness. I have to go pick it up first though.

I'm hoping someone has made the switch to this radio model on their own Reatta. Did they have issues or not, is what I want to find out.

I successfully wired my new radio to my Sierra speaker system and it feeds all front and rear channels. I then hooked up my old Sierra radio to the Reatta speaker wiring and found the left front and both rear channels dead. So my speaker system needs a going over to fix my problem. Time to put in new speakers while I'm at it. Did I read somewhere on here about a crossover needed in the door between the woofer and tweeter? Any decent speaker recommendations?

Thanks

[padgett]

a) yes, there is a crossover in the door between the woof and the tweet.

ones with plastic, not paper, cones.

[NCReatta]

mgibson gave me some recommendations for good speakers a while back... I forgot what they were though. Send him a PM, I think he'll be able to answer you questions.

[Rawja]

I've been installing Infinity Kappas in all my rides for years. Great bang for medium bucks. I've always left my door tweeters operational as well when replacing the speakers.

[heygibb]

I've been installing Infinity Kappas in all my rides for years. Great bang for medium bucks. I've always left my door tweeters operational as well when replacing the speakers.

What will I have to buy exactly?...4 or 8 ohm?

When you say you left the door tweeters operational, what do you mean by that? ...you left them alone, got new ones, or just what exactly? Did you change out the crossover?

I've been corresponding w/ the techie that sold me the head unit. He said the OEM speakers failing would cause the head unit to overheat and fail, also. That would explain why both failed simultaneously.

Thanks for your recommendation. I wanted someone's personal experience to go by.

[Rawja]

The latest edition of the Kappa line speakers are 2 ohm which I've installed in my '88 Reatta, literature claims that results in more sound.... I have had NO problems running them or the 4 ohm versions that preceded them in the 7 or so GM vehicles that I installed them into.

I did not change the door tweeter crossover, just hooked it up in parallel with the new speaker's crossover. I find that leaving the tweeters in makes the sound a little "brighter" and provides more noticeable L/R effects. I tend to listen to dance-y and techno stuff so umm I'm usually looking for maximum bass combined with maximum tweet and as much volume as possible, so YMMV.

Based on previous experience, I installed this set with the supplied covers as other speakers I've installed in Reatta doors tended to get "buzzy" from the door trim foam rings contacting the speaker edge lip. Covers fit just fine under the door panel and I haven't had any buzzing/vibration problems at all.

[heygibb]

Thanks for the pic and info, especially the bit about cone interference when installed w/out the covers. I need to go shopping! Been reading reviews of the Kappas...all pretty good.

If I go 2 ohm in the door, then the rears should match, right? It's been awhile since I knew anything about matching speakers to amps. Since I'm using the Delco head unit, I want to make sure it can push the speakers I buy. And, do you have any thoughts on the rears re 2 way vs. 3 way?

Edited October 1, 2010 by heygibb
add more info (see edit history)

[Rawja]

I'd replace 'em all.

I used Infinity Kappa 52.9i 's in front and 693.9i 's in back. I got 'em cheap off of eBay.

Massive improvement in sound compared to the factory speakers (previous-gen Kappas vs. newly-installed factory speakers) in my old '89 and more recently current-gen Kappas vs. the Pioneer speakers the PO had put in my '88.

[wws944]

Thanks for the pic and info, especially the bit about cone interference when installed w/out the covers. I need to go shopping! Been reading reviews of the Kappas...all pretty good.

If I go 2 ohm in the door, then the rears should match, right?

The stock front system is 4 ohms and the rear system is 10 ohms. Not sure why they did this, but maybe it helps keep the front/rear balance a bit better. I'd be hesitant to install 2 ohm speakers - especially if you like to 'crank it up'.

It's been awhile since I knew anything about matching speakers to amps. Since I'm using the Delco head unit, I want to make sure it can push the speakers I buy. And, do you have any thoughts on the rears re 2 way vs. 3 way?

In the rear, if anything, you want less treble - not more. Helps keep the sound stage where it belongs - in front. So some either 'dial down' the treble (with equalization), or don't even bother to install the tweeters. This is why they just used 'whizzer cone' speakers in the rear - instead of component style or coaxials. (Though I think the '88s and '89s do have tweeters back there.)

Paper cones are not necessarily bad. Some very high end home systems use paper cones for a reason: they don't 'ring' like a plastic or metallic cone can. Cones also need to be as light and stiff as possible. 'Flexy' cones can also cause harmonics to be generated - coloring the sound. But if you choose a set with paper cones, make sure they stay dry.

I think the Reattas stock system, in perfect new condition, sounded pretty good. However, unlike fine wines, speakers do not age well. In particular, the foam surrounds on the woofers can rot from environment and age. Once this happens, the sound will be horrible (buzzy and weak) and the drivers should be repaired or replaced.

[heygibb]

I'd replace 'em all.

I used Infinity Kappa 52.9i 's in front and 693.9i 's in back. I got 'em cheap off of eBay.

Massive improvement in sound compared to the factory speakers (previous-gen Kappas vs. newly-installed factory speakers) in my old '89 and more recently current-gen Kappas vs. the Pioneer speakers the PO had put in my '88.

Are the 6x9s a direct fit in the rear?

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Not in 88s, 89s, or verts.

[heygibb]

Not in 88s, 89s, or verts.

Thanks. I'm good w/ a '90 then.

Appreciate all the feedback.

I have finally had the time to install my new speakers. I bought the Infinity Kappas, as suggested. I put the 52.9i 's in front and 692.9i's in the rear. Since the OEM speakers had a customized connectors, I clipped the wires and crimped on a male connector that fit into the Infinity wiring device perfectly. I used the radio pinout info from reattaowner.com to determine the + and _ polarity of the wires.

The rear wiring coincided w/ documentation available. The L rear had brown as + and yellow as -. The R rear had dark blue as + and light blue as -. The front wire colors were different. Each door had black and red wires, which fed the 5 1/4" speaker and continued on to the small tweeter above via a crossover. I left that intact. I wired the speakers w/ red as + and black as -. The speakers sound fine so I guess they are in phase.

During installation, I found I had to leave one of the mounting screws off of the rear 6x9s, due to access issues. I snugged the other three up pretty good and hope it holds it tight for the foreseeable future. For the door speakers, I was able to remove and replace them by only prying away the lower portion of the door covering. As suggested by someone else, I used a small piece of 2x4 to keep it open as I worked on the speaker. The kappa barely fit into the opening, but it did. By that, I mean the rear of the speaker actually bottoms out against a vinyl "cage" at the bottom of the mounting housing. I was able to adhere the speaker cover in place prior to re-attaching the door panel, as advised previously.

Initially, I thought my OEM head unit failed when I got no sound from my OEM speakers all of a sudden. When I decided to purchase a replacement unit, I got one off eBay from a fellow who refurbished this unit from an '87 Monte Carlo. It has an equalizer and CD player integrated into the unit. (Mine had the cassette player.) He, also, added an aux input for using an mp3 player. While steep in $, the 6 month warranty convinced me to buy the unit. I knew it would look original and that mattered to me. All the components work as advertised.

On a side note, I have a feeling it was my speakers crapping out all at the same time and not my head unit that had failed on my OEM unit. I was ready for a CD player so it's irrelevant to me at this point, but when I hooked the replacement unit up to my original speaker system, I had no sound in three speakers and minimal sound in one. It was only after I replaced the speakers that I knew I had a functioning system again.

Thanks for all the input I received on this project. I am fortunate my OEM system lasted for 20 years but it needed upgrading. The replacement unit seems a little more robust to me than the original, though that may be in my imagination. Now, on to the next fix...

Edited October 21, 2010 by heygibb
problem resolved (see edit history)

[heygibb]

bump

[Rawja]

heygibb: I've re-read the thread. What is left unanswered?

[heygibb]

heygibb: I've re-read the thread. What is left unanswered?

Nothing on this project. I guess I was ambiguous how I ended the comment I left. By next fix, I was thinking of the list of little things I want to fix...horn button off, chime squirrely, trunk lock missing a cover plate, door locks responding to electric switches in slow motion...

Thanks for wondering what I meant. I should have been more specific.

Tim