1957 Buick Rear Seat Speaker

[MrEarl]

you may be onto "somethin" there Jim.

and I just leaned by looking more closely at the parts numbers for the 54-55 escutcheon that there were different ones for the large and small body series. crapola, why can't life be more simple:rolleyes:

(and I also learned how to spell escutcheon) (I think)

[buick man]

Well . . . not so fast you guys.

There are alot of minor parts from the factory on the 1957 Buick from the 1956 bins and even earlier than that for that matter. We only know for a fact that TG's knob is correct for 1957. We do not know if the switch or the mounting location is blue blood correct.

Now what we are after is did the factory install these radio switches there and what did they use and where were they actually mounted? With TG's switch we would have to assume that Buick or a dealer installed it there yet there is no Tech reference to that kinda switch or mounting. With that said I cannot find in my parts reference a complete install unit switch designated for the radio that would fit TG's description or a service as to the install. I do find the 54-55 and the 56 and they look like MrEarl's presentation. Also if you were going to mount the radio speaker switch would you mount it over to left or over to the right near the radio so one hand could do all the work? Even the shotgun passenger could easily adjust the speaker while keeping the driver focused on driving. I would think this is the kind of stuff the factory would think of and not in just finding a spot to put it like a dealer or an after thought mechanic would.

[buick5563]

Wait a second, I am pretty sure that the rear speaker switch on a 54-56 would not be dash mounted, but in place of the right knob of the radio. The other side is for tone. I don't recall ever seeing a hole cut in the dash from the factory. (I'm talking about 54-56 with that statement)

edit: just looked in my parts book and there is a knob, wire, and escutcheon listed. I guess I just don't know...

Edited November 12, 2010 by buick5563
Admitting I don't have a clue (see edit history)

[1957buickjim]

I have attached a picture of the underside of my dash when I was restoring it after I painted it. As you can see, there are 2 holes located on the underside, one to the left of where the steering column would be and one on the right. The one on the right is for the trip odometer reset button. I would think the one on the left would be for option installation (electric antenna switch, or perhaps TG's radio speaker control knob). I can't imagine that the dealer would drill a hole in the dash to install a switch. Also, interestingly enough, there are no pre-punched holes for the mounting of the switch escutcheon per Buick Man's install. ????? Usually if there is an option available but not ordered, they would put the mounting features in the sheetmetal, especially if it is just a punched hole that is not visible. questions, questions, questions...

[1957buickjim]

TG, there's a wonderbar foot switch listed on ebay as of this morning with a buy now price. I think it is kind of pricey..but you are looking for one..Jim

[TG57Roadmaster]

Thanks for the heads-up and tried to find it, but it must already be gone.

TG

[1957buickjim]

TG, try searching 1953,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,CAD,OLDS,BUICK,CONTROL - eBay (item 320619245290 end time Nov-25-10 08:40:44 PST). Not sure how to copy it but it is still there. $250 OBO. Good luck. Jim

[MrEarl]

GOOD LORD, this feller has a foot switch complete with radio with beautiful chrome for a starting bid of $200.

1956 BUICK SELECTRONIC RADIO Wonderbar 1954 1955 1957 - eBay (item 160507177760 end time Nov-23-10 18:45:00 PST)

Edited November 18, 2010 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[1957buickjim]

Missed that one Mr. Earl! Not a bad deal if you can get it complete like that. I know TG is / has been looking for a good switch for his Wonderbar for say...20yrs? (so he said in his post), so I thought he might be interested. Thanks for looking out for us neophytes...Saw that you have your 56 / 57 switch on the eBay as well! Good luck. I like the starting price... Jim

[MrEarl]

and does the Coca Cola Cooler come up in the list when you look at my other items, I noticed it wasn't when I tried.

[1957buickjim]

Nope..just the antenna, switch and that Bee-u-t-ful wonderbar radio!! might need to relist it.

[MrEarl]

Nope..just the antenna, switch and that Bee-u-t-ful wonderbar radio!! might need to relist it.

it's still listed, just not coming up in my list.:mad:

this would look sweet in the back of a 57 Cabellero

1950's COCA - COLA COOLER by CAVALIER CORPORATION - eBay (item 160507628979 end time Nov-23-10 20:07:12 PST)

[1957buickjim]

Mr. Earl, need to get Caballero 57 in on this. You are so right!! Nice period piece and I bet the Coke stayed pretty cold in that there cooler!!! Jim

[1957buickjim]

OK..now I'm really confused. I purchased this trim panel off of eBay and it had a switch on it. The wires are the same as posted in TG's PSB on the problem with the noisy rear speaker problem. By all looks, it looks like it is a switch for a rear speaker, but it is in the Accessory slot in the trim panel - original?? I have posted the pictures not only of this switch, but also of an NOS switch plate, which is what Dave has in his vehicle. However, I could not find or figure out how this would be mounted underdash, unless the install was at the dealer, not the factory. No mounting holes for it in the dash, especially where the ignition and cigar lighter would be. So.....what is the theory here? could the speaker switches be mounted in the Accessory location, if the car did not have speedminder (?) Would the dealer drill a hole in the dash (a la TG's) installation, or would they have mounted it per Dave's lower right hand mount with bezel...This is like CSI for Buicks!!! Lets have some fun...

[buick man]

Here is my reasoning unbalanced on a pinhead.

In the third photo exhibit we shall call "C" is shown a Delco Remy Box that supposedly originally contained the chrome below dash escutcheon as shown. Now suppose for a moment, since Delco Remy were the ones who made the Wonder Bar radio & by inference made the switch for their radio as evidenced by photo exhibit "C", then it stands to reason that this is the switch escutcheon that would have been installed in our 1957 Buicks. But what remains is what "Knob" was used? One would think that Delco Remy would of supplied the switch as well to go with their escutcheon.

Now it is known that Delco Remy tech books strongly stress that their speaker and no other speaker be used with their radios due to the magnets and cone balancing they put into them to match the resistance and impedance characteristics of the Wonder Bars Transducers etc. otherwise their radio "warranty" would be effected and Buick or the Dealers would of been very sensitive to this point! Since Delco Remy was very particular about their speakers then this could also be implied they are as much with the switches used and would supply such a switch.

Therefore, since Delco Remy obviously supplied the escutcheon as shown in photo exhibit "C", there is no doubt that one could reasonably determine that this is the proper item to use when installing a speaker switch for the Deldo Remy Radio Product line. That in fact it is only mountable from under the dash; that the supplied wires as shown from previous posts, show a short wire to the radio so mounting would be made near and below the exact radio location. This reinforce my previous post pointing out that the Buick Factory would be concerned about one hand operation and Delco Remy concerned with using their supplied hardware for proper operation and warranty concerns.

[buick5563]

Very Perry Mason.

[buick man]

Thank you Stella ... I think?

Edit: I think I meant: Thank you .... Della!

Edited January 17, 2011 by buick man (see edit history)

[buick5563]

Ms. Street, please.

[TG57Roadmaster]

MEMO: to Della Street.

Exhibit A, which seemed to escape me before...

Larger

Going strictly by the Master Body Parts Book, the same knob (part # 1175180) is used for

the rear speaker knob (Group 9.655) and the heater/defroster knob (Group 9.740).

The other knobs matching their appearance in various places on the dash have different part #s.

From post #22 on this thread.

For the record, 1175180 is also used as a "dummy" knob in Group 14.483, lower instrument housing.

My right vent is a dummy (because it's an AC job?), and so is my Accessory switch.

Larger

So for now, neither the Defense nor the Prosecution rests.

TG

Edited December 12, 2010 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[Guest Rob McDonald]

The obscure things we find to talk about continue to amaze me! Among many other treasures, my parts car gave up a factory rear seat speaker. It has the combined metal and (tattered) cloth grille that's described above. I can't remember now what it has for a selector switch. Neither the twist-style nor push-pull switch looks familiar to me now, thirty years later.

Actually, I could have missed removing this switch from the donor car. The storage yard where I'd had it parked was sold to a car crusher operation. I had only one weekend to pull everything off that I wanted to keep. Many other storage customers weren't contacted and didn't get that salvage opportunity. I cringe remembering a rusty but very straight '60 Cadillac Superior hearse being stacked by forklift on top of a shabby '64 Cadillac Model 75 limousine. Somewhere, I've got photos of that dark day.

[1957buickjim]

So, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what has been stated, if understood correctly is that:

1. AC models have no vent cable or control on the right side of the vehicle, just a dummy knob, per exhibit A as presented by the defense.

2. The dummy knob also exists in the accessory location on said vehicle as well, again as shown in exhibit A.

3. There has been no refuting evidence provided by the prosecution that said location on insturment panel is not a genuine location for the speaker switch control.

4. Alternative evidence as presented in post 19, photo 6 of the PSB shows the harness as being 3 wires, black, black w green stripe, and green for the wire connections.

5. That being said, post 54 shows the same wiring configuration to a switch installed in a trim plate (original) in the accessory location with same said knob as shown in exhibit A.

6. In post 55, it is understood that Delco, being a large manufacturer and supplier of radios to General Motors - Buick Division, would want to make sure that it's finely tuned systems would not be part of a amalgam of components from hither and yon. Yet, it is interesting to see that Delco only supplied the escutcheon and not the switch and knob with it as a total assembly as the component. It is also interesting to note, that the switch assembly / escutcheon mounting hole fits perfectly to the said switch with keyway cut and that it is a left to right operation, not pull out.

In conclusion, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I present to you that the Rear Speaker Switch as shown in the evidence must be mounted either in the following manners given the vehicle configuration:

A: Mounting in the accessory switch on the Model 40 vehicles that did not have the speed minder option speedometer that were closed car vehicles.

B: Mounted in the escutcheon plate on those vehicles with the speed minder option speedometer, but with no A/C, located to the right of the driver.

C: Non applicable to convertibles, since there is no package shelf for the speaker to mount.

D: Mounted on a factory punched hole on the lower left side of the dash for those vehicles with the speed minder speedometer and A/C.

Therefore, if the switch don't fit, you must acquit!!!

[buick man]

Jim - Maybe the switch did originally come packaged in this orange box from Delco-Remy but is now missing? A lot of this N.O.S. stuff out there is still around because it was sometimes seconds, defectives or incomplete assemblies and lasted to this day on dusty shelves and storage boxes just for that reason.

However with that said, it still remains very curious, and as stated earlier, that no real printed or photo material can be had regarding this radio rear speaker mystery so as to be used as a photo reference!? I mean since Buick had this option listed in their sales literature one would think a good number of Buicks sold in 1957 would of opted for the rear speaker and we would be seeing many switches if not just at least some mounted switches by now.

To tell you the truth, I too have never seen another Delco switch mounted in a 1957 Buick or for that matter a stock appearing radio Front/Rear/Both type switch or even a switch to select the various positions with. I have seen rear speakers in 1957 Buicks but with no apparent way to control the various speakers - So what is up with that?

[1957buickjim]

David, you make a good point there on both issues. You would think that there would be more information out there, if this was a popular option, and the only thing that seems to be the connecting link is the sales literature and one issue in the PSB...hmmm. As Artie Johnson would say.....verrry interestink.......I am quite sure there is more to come...

[Guest Rob McDonald]

JIM, we've let this thread cool for a bit but I see that you've now dragged poor Sharon into it. Folks, go check your knobs.

My '57 Model 73A was not equipped with a rear speaker and has no knob on the rolled surface of the lower left side of the dash. It does have the Electric Mother-In-Law Speed Minder, which has its control knob, labelled "Accessory", on the left end of the recessed panel on the left side of the steering column. The other two spaces are occupied by the parking brake warning light and the left fresh air vent knob (this car was not originally air-conditioned).

Now let's see if this next comment results in another long debate: my electric antenna switch is on the bottom edge of the dash, right below the position described above for the rear speaker fader switch. My parts car had the antenna switch mounted on the right side of the steering column. Dealer-installed accessory or factory-to-factory variation? Someone out there will have an opinion, for sure.

[TG57Roadmaster]

In another thread, 1957buickjim jokingly asked,

...what kind of switch is used for the rear speaker and where it is mounted.

We now have two alike, Sharon's Aussie Super, and my Roadmaster.

Perhaps the location has to do with whether the car had Speed-Minder?

Rob, I think we can conclude that the radio and antenna were factory-installed,

according to Sean's Order Form, the Facts Book, and the accessories brochure.

Why the antenna switch is in different places is anybody's guess, unless someone

wanted to upgrade to a power antenna and it was done at the dealership.

TG

Edited January 26, 2011 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[1957buickjim]

TG..I do think it has to do with the speed minder and the type of car as well. I was thinking, (i do have random thoughts sometimes) that maybe with the Roadmaster WB being 127.5 inches, it would have a wider IP by some 5 inches. Thus, it might make sense to have the hole for the radio speaker knob punched through on those (TG / Sharon), especially since speed minder was stock on those vehicles, per the factory order sheet graciously provided by Sean. Interesting to note, that on the Factory Order Sheet, there is no option listed for the rear speaker. It would be interesting to find out the exact location of the switch on both to see if the hole for the switch is in the same spot exactly. That would definitively ID it as a factory install or dealer install. My guess, since it is not on the factory order sheet, it is a dealer installed option.

On the other series, it was optional, either with the basic group 1 or basic group 2 or the option F on the the 40-50-60 series. Hence, if the car did not have the speed minder or safety group, then wouldn't make sense to mount the speaker control in the accessory slot in the left hand lower IP panel, and if it did have the options listed above, owner option might be to mount it separately as shown in David's (buickman's) vehicle..or drill a hole and mount it in the dash as TG / Sharon.

I think we may be getting to the bottom of this, especially with the piece of evidence from Sean on the order form. Still a darn interesting topic..

[TG57Roadmaster]

My guess, since it is not on the factory order sheet, it is a dealer installed option.

Jim, I think that with the support of Sean's Order Form, the Facts Book,

and the Accessories Brochure, you can change that statement to;

"My conclusion, since it is not on the factory order sheet, it is a dealer installed option."

Then, all the nuances of location, switches, escutcheons, and Speed-Minder

versus no Speed-Minder make sense. Except to the poor guy at the dealer

scratching his head asking, "Boss, where does this switch go?"

That doesn't mean the "book is written," just that a chapter has been completed.

Now, if we could just find the revised Order Forms that appeared when the

RM 75's were intro'd, and again a month later when the Spring Colors came out.

Hey Sean, we need another miracle!

TG

[1957buickjim]

To steal something from the "A-Team"...I love it when a plan comes together! TG, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Once again the sluthing (sp?) has come up with the answer to the questions in everybody (who cares) mind.

Outstanding work, inspector Cluseau! Now onto the next case..

[Guest Rob McDonald]

I really must forward Sean's amazing order form to the office, to get a full size print of it. I got a dinky little MacBook Air in November, which has become my new best friend. Trouble is, the screen is so small, I can't see all these Basic Group 1s and Option Fs that you guys are going on about. I'm feeling very left out. =<:^[

[buick man]

Hey Guys. On ebay there is for sale an original Buick Radio Kit complete with speaker cover, wiring, instructions, switch and templates for both the models 40/60 and 50/70 series. However no speaker. It clearly indicates that the radio switch is to be mounted on the lower left area of the dash as per the template markup for installation.

Therefore, it appears this mystery has been solved. Here is an original Buick Kit for this radio switch type and it's intended location.

With that said it appears the Buick radio dual radio switch never was installed at the factory but Buick to fill or round out it's options card offered this kit and was to be a dealer installed item only therefore all the different configurations as we have seen. Dealers probably used old stock 1956 Delco units since no known photo existed in the brochures or elsewhere. Perhaps the kit did not get put out as is in the case of this kit until the production run began.

So here it is:

1957 Buick NOS ACCESSORY REAR SEAT RADIO SPEAKER KIT - eBay (item 280621495711 end time Feb-05-11 12:51:30 PST)

Perhaps someone here could buy it so we could all get a copy of the instructions and the templates and make it part of the AACA library for all to use in the future.

Get on it!

[buick man]

Just an after thought, perhaps we could do a group buy or one of us buy it and the rest of us donate to the fund we can get the templates and the instructions.

When have or will we see another one????

[1957buickjim]

Thanks for the heads up David! I am all over that. I put a bid on it when I noticed it on eBay just for that purpose. I am keeping my fingers crossed on getting that so I can put the information on the AACA library (documenation, photos, etc). As soon as I saw it, I knew that it would be the holy grail to answer many questions on this thread. Wish me luck!

[Caballero2]

OK Jim, we all resisted bidding. Did you get the ebay kit for the rear speaker?

-Dan-:cool:

[1957buickjim]

Alright guys..the holy grail has been acquired! Just let me know if you want info copied and sent. Just PM me with your address and I will be glad to send it out, once it arrives. I think that we can be pretty positive on this now how, what and where these dorn things were supposed to be installed.

[Guest werntonb]

I'm looking for pictures of an installed rear seat speaker in the package shelf. I have just picked up a wonderbar / w rear speaker switch and would like to install one. Looking for pics or anyone that has had experience installing one. Also looking for the speaker grille for the mounting. Thanks. Jim

I don't have pics. but my friend has a rear seat speaker in the package shelf. I'm gonna get some pics. for you.

[buick5563]

Way ta go Jim! Looks like a very reasonable price, too.

[1957buickjim]

Wertonb - Thanks, that would be great! Can always use additional information and pictures to get all the right / methods of installation. Also, if you can have your friend take a picture of where the speaker control is mounted on the dash as well. That would be great.

Mike - I know, I couldn't believe that there was one on eBay, much less getting the thing, especially after all the discussion on this thread! Talk about serendipity! Maybe if we start another mundane thread on something you need for your 55, it might show up on eBay as well..

[TG57Roadmaster]

Jim,

Glad you got the speaker kit. It shouldn't be too hard locating a 5x9 speaker to re-cone and make work.

I finally got a foot switch about a month ago, so it'll be fun to get that going this Spring.

TG

[1957buickjim]

TG..that is great! Speaker should not be to hard to get. Way to go on the foot switch. I know you have been looking for it for a long time. Cant wait to hear how you like it!

Now..where officially does the foot switch for the Wonderbar go on the floor, in relation to the carpet and the dimmer switch? is there a diagram with directions and measurments for putting that in? Maybe needs another thread

[TG57Roadmaster]

Jim,

Since the radios were installed at the factory, my WonderBar already has an installed foot switch,

it doesn't work now. Replacing it will be pretty easy, and hopefully won't require another thread!

At the same time, I got the radio Photofact schematic, specific for WonderBars, and can send scans

to anyone who needs them.

TG

Edited February 7, 2011 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)