MrEarl Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 What could be causing the tranny to have to warm up before going into gear. After cranking the car most of the time, especially on cool/cold mornings, I have to wait about a minute for it to warm up before it will go into gear. It's been doing if since I bought it a year ago and the po said it was doing it with him. I had the fluid changed and a new filter installed and if anything it is a little worse now. IE it does it even when the weather is warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Mr. Earl,There's a similar thread dealing with this problem on the 325-4L that's in the 82-85 Rivieras. Apparently the torque converter is draining itself after it sits a while. There is a check ball in the assembly some where that's malfunctioning. The concensus was that for the cost of the repair, having to wait for the pump to refill the torque converter is the more cost effective solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pfloro Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Hello Lamar:As RivNut mentioned, your Hydramatic could have the 'converter drain back' problem. A good transmission shop would hopefully know if your transmission model was plagued with the drain back issue. I don't think all Hydramatic transaxles had this problem.Does this problem occur in both reverse & forward gear selections? If so, it's probably the drain back issue. If it only occurs in forward or reverse, then it's probably an internal leak in one of the clutches which creates forward or reverse motion. This is more serious, as over time, slippage will occur. Once a clutch begins slipping due to reduced clamping force, a rebuild will soon be needed.Let's hope only the annoying converter drain back is occurring.Keep us posted,Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim63riv Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Mr Earl,Your car has a 4T60-E transmission that does not have converter drain back issues that the old 325-4L had. Fluid level is absolutely critical in this Hydramatic because it uses a thermal element to control the level of transmission fluid that is kept in the side cover of the trasmission. The transmission has to be at full operating temperature before checking the flud level or the reading will not be accurate and it can give a false indication that transmission is actually overfilled! Drive it 5 to 10 miles and then check the level.If the car won't move forward or backward until warmed up, then you likely have a failing/failed input clutch inner seal. The seal contracts when the transmission cools down and won't hold fluid pressure in the input clutch until the warming transmission fluid flowing past it softens it enough for it to seal. The input clutch is needed for both first gear and reverse, so if it can't apply, the car can't move. This has been a issue with this transmission since the old 440-T4 and I have even seen some on the current 4T65-E's used in the Lucernes!HTH,Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivieraman Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Mr EarlI agree the tim63riv. there was a recall on these cars with this issue. It is the clutchs all u car do is a complete rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll be checking the fluid level this morning with fingers crossed. Can't afford a rebuild right now. I have no problem waiting on it to "warm up" but will it hurt it to continue driving it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim63riv Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Lamar,The problem will get worse but usually very slowly. If the time for the transmission to engage increases, you may want to discontinue driving the car. Also, watch the fluid color, if it starts to get darker, the input clutch plate are starting to burn up. Let's hope it is just low fluid, but then you have to find the leak and fix that!HTH,Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 If, as Nathaniel says, there was a recall on this, wouldn't GM still have some responsibility for this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim63riv Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Ed,There was no recall. The issue was dealt with in service bulletins over the years.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivieraman Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 I stand corrected Tim yes service bulletins my 89 was cover by warrenty in 1992 with 24,000 miles. I forgot that there was factory goodwill back then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Well of course the tranny was quite full. Will be visiting the local transmission shop when I get back from Ames I suppose. Any pointers on what questions to ask and what all to expect to have to be done. Anyone had one rebuilt lately that could suggest what to expect to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Mr Earl,Your car has a 4T60-E transmission that does not have converter drain back issues that the old 325-4L had. Fluid level is absolutely critical in this Hydramatic because it uses a thermal element to control the level of transmission fluid that is kept in the side cover of the trasmission. The transmission has to be at full operating temperature before checking the flud level or the reading will not be accurate and it can give a false indication that transmission is actually overfilled! Drive it 5 to 10 miles and then check the level.If the car won't move forward or backward until warmed up, then you likely have a failing/failed input clutch inner seal. The seal contracts when the transmission cools down and won't hold fluid pressure in the input clutch until the warming transmission fluid flowing past it softens it enough for it to seal. The input clutch is needed for both first gear and reverse, so if it can't apply, the car can't move. This has been a issue with this transmission since the old 440-T4 and I have even seen some on the current 4T65-E's used in the Lucernes!HTH,TimBringing this back up. Let the car sit quite a bit through last winter but have been driving it a lot this summer. With the daytime temps being what they are, usually only takes a half minute for it to wam up and go. Took it to a local tranny shop yesterday for an estimate. He knew exactlly what the problem was (as Tim explained) and said between $1700 and $2000 to rebuild.:eek:That hurts. I was expecting (maybe foolishly) around 8-900. Does the 17-1800 sound right. I assume most of that cost is labor. How difficult is it to pull these trannies? Thoughts?<!-- google_ad_section_end --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 That is an accurate price. I have lined up a tranny tech at the local Buick dealership to do my car if/when mine fails. His price? $900.00. You may want to try www.car-part for a used unit [try looking for a factory rebuilt one. every so often one shows up]. You can buy them for about $300.00 and then hire a moonlighter to swap it for about $400.00 or try it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 A fwd transaxle requires a whole different set of "tools" to extricate it from the vehicle than a rwd vehicle--period. Might consider dropping the front subframe assy (unhooking EVERYTHING that has wires/hoses there in the process, which might end up being quicker than trying to remove the trans from the engine "in car". I don't know of many "moonlighters" which have the necessary special tool/engine holding fixtures needed to do a fwd transaxle R & R.If it's a seal issue, or a combination seal/shaft wear issue, then you might try adding a bottle of GM Automatic Transmission Conditioner. It has an extra dose of detergent plus some "seal conditioner" in it.In the mean time . . . when you start the car, put your foot on the foot brake, place the gear selector in "N", and start the car. Usually, the "fill rate" in "N" is greater than when the vehicle is in "Park". Just make sure you get a solid engagement before you try to drive off.Enjoy!NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 A fwd transaxle requires a whole different set of "tools" to extricate it from the vehicle than a rwd vehicle--period. Might consider dropping the front subframe assy (unhooking EVERYTHING that has wires/hoses there in the process, which might end up being quicker than trying to remove the trans from the engine "in car". I don't know of many "moonlighters" which have the necessary special tool/engine holding fixtures needed to do a fwd transaxle R & R.If it's a seal issue, or a combination seal/shaft wear issue, then you might try adding a bottle of GM Automatic Transmission Conditioner. It has an extra dose of detergent plus some "seal conditioner" in it.In the mean time . . . when you start the car, put your foot on the foot brake, place the gear selector in "N", and start the car. Usually, the "fill rate" in "N" is greater than when the vehicle is in "Park". Just make sure you get a solid engagement before you try to drive off.Enjoy!NTX5467Willis, you're right dude, it went into gear quite a bit faster. How 'bout that. THANKS Found someone that says they will pull and completely rebuild for $1000, no more than $1200. I think I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim63riv Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Lamar,Make sure you understand the term "completely rebuild" the transmission! Ask if you are getting a remanufactured torque converter or is your old one going back in? New shift and TCC solenoids, too? All new bands, clutch friction plates and reaction plates? Is the third roller clutch being updated to a sprag?How long is the warranty? Any happy former customers you can talk with?If the price is half the going rate, has to be a reason!Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks Tim, just copied this out and will be sure to carry it with me and ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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