better air breather

[rjfranken]

Any Buick intakes with more surface area to breathe from? I know that a 6x6 filter is not going to breathe well-at any speed. K&E cone filter? Not stock but what to do? I had undone mine from the box today and the car changed a lot. So did the new ABS relay!

Edited February 4, 2010 by rjfranken (see edit history)

[Guest Richard D]

My car came with a K&N filter that fits the factory air box. I guess I could buy a paper one to use while I clean the K&N and see if there is any difference. But IMHO it probably won't make a noticeable difference in power. It does filter out more and smaller particles from what I have read.

[rjfranken]

Not enough air flow. I took mine off the box and it was another motor. I had seen somewhere the intake was restricted to keep HP down. Why I don't know-laws-? ?Padgett?

Every 4 cyl. car I work on has at least a 6x12 air box with lots of breathing room.

so a 6x6 in the air box won't flow much better than an after market or say something a Super Charged Riv had in it.

Edited February 4, 2010 by rjfranken
padgett (see edit history)

[wws944]

Not enough air flow. I took mine off the box and it was another motor. I had seen somewhere the intake was restricted to keep HP down. Why I don't know-laws-? ?Padgett?

Probably more to keep the intake noise down. There are some government noise level regs that automakers must follow...

Every 4 cyl. car I work on has at least a 6x12 air box with lots of breathing room.

so a 6x6 in the air box won't flow much better than an after market or say something a Super Charged Riv had in it.

Well, be careful with such numbers. Count the number of folds and how deep each is. You may find that the paper filter has several times more media than the K&N. This means it can retain more debris and perhaps not flow as bad as you think.

Also remember that the V6 in the Reattas tend to run at much lower RPMs than the 4 cylinder cars that you are probably thinking of.

[padgett]

Whole "C" engine is "intake impared" it is not just the air filter: MAF, throttle body, valves, cam, all are optomised for low end torque not high revs.

BTW a 2.5 liter four needs the same intake capacity as a 3800 six.

[rjfranken]

Padgett, so good to see you. So I say Duh. And btw I agree both move the same amount of air at a given moment; a larger displacement will want more at sometime ; usually sooner after low end. I used to hot rod VW air cooled engines.

Thanks

So is there an air box in some Big Park Avenue that can be used?

Edited February 4, 2010 by rjfranken (see edit history)

[padgett]

I have seem a much larger one used in Grand Prix GTPs, A1614C filter ? (from memory, no promises)

[wws944]

Whole "C" engine is "intake impared" it is not just the air filter: MAF, throttle body, valves, cam, all are optomised for low end torque not high revs.

BTW a 2.5 liter four needs the same intake capacity as a 3800 six.

The Bosch Automotive Handbook (4th edition) briefly discusses filter sizing. It says that for a 4-stroke engine, a good empirical value is 15 to 20 times the displacement of one cylinder. Going by that, a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder would need about the same size as a 3.8 liter 6 cylinder.

FWIW, the stock air filter size in my 944, a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine, is also much bigger the one in the Reatta. (About 2x by area, 1.5x by volume.) However, 944 engines tend to live at much higher RPM than GM engines. So this may be understandable.

[BrentS]

I personally, am not all "convinced" by K & N. I don't see their concrete evidence/data, that not only relates airflow and hp, but more importantly filtration (micron rating, capacity, etc.) Any aftermarket filter could increase airflow, especially if the media has larger passages (i.e. oiled "cotton gauze"). But, where is K & N's data/testing showing the amount of filtration?

Oiled filter media has been around a long time......whether it's sponge or cotton gauze. I always wonder if an aftermarket idea is soooooooo good, why wouldn't all the manufacturers use it?

Just my opinion.

[Guest Richard D]

Like I said, The K&N was in the car when I bought it and the info on particle size and air flow also came from K&N. Not that K&N would lie, but they can make the numbers look good.

As Padgett said, the "C" 3800 is not designed as a high rpm screamer, the entire intake is designed for lower RPM torque. If I wanted an american sports car I would have bought a Corvette.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

OEM filters are paper because it is probably cheaper. That is the easy question. Are K&N better? Maybe maybe not. If they pass more air and filter better they are better. If an "overserviced" oil/gauze filter contaminates your MAF with oil then what? I dunno!

[Ronnie]

Like an exhaust system, the intake system should be tuned for a specific RPM range to get maximum horsepower. If you completely removed the stock air cleaner it would not guarantee the most performance at all RPMs. I would bet that the air cleaner box and filter are adequate for the RPM range the stock Reatta engine was designed to operate in.

Sometimes the different sound generated by different filters like the K&N creates an illusion of more performance but usually E.T. numbers do not confirm what your "seat of the pants" dyno is telling you.

I believe the best gain in horsepower for the Reatta, with the least amount of time and money spent, is to go to the Supercharged engine. It might be fun to play with air filters, exhaust tips and such but I wouldn't expect much of a gain in horsepower for the time and money spent. Just my 2¢.

[padgett]

0-60 is not really a determinant for a "sports car". Nice but somewhat irrelevant (see "BugEye Sprite"). That said I'd put my 2.8 Fiero against any Reatta through the cones. Has "enough" power. For that matter any Fiero with the same engine will be faster than any Reatta in a straight line.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

I would imagine the exhaust is the worst factor for the stock reatta engine. Just two cents.

[rjfranken]

Like they say, easy in, easy out, free horse power.

[padgett]

There can be a horrible restriction in the exhaust manifold but you have to remove the head pipe to tell. The exhaust is not designed for performance and there could be a lot of improvement but there is no one thing that is easy that will help much.

Any number of swaps are possible, the major issue is to keep the dash reading properly which makes the best all around swap difficult, the series II L-36 with a 4T65E trans.

Easier is a pre-1995 L67 supercharged which uses boost to overfome the flow limitations as well as the "L" improvements while keeping the OBD-I data stream.

But again, why ? The Reatta is really not suited to racing and the "C" is as near bulletproof as any engine ever made, perhaps because of its low stress design.