Reatta Owners Journal - Off Topic

[Ronnie]

If anyone who has contributed to the information found on my website wants that information to no longer be displayed, please contact me immediately. I will be happy to comply with your wishes.

NOTE: I removed the rest of the post that was originally here. I was told to deal with my problems myself by a senior member and I will heed his advice.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Ronnie
Too much information (see edit history)

[Guest F14CRAZY]

it must be above my head

[Barney Eaton]

I'm not sure why we need to know about this. As Philip says, it is over our heads, "wrappers" means nothing to us.

You can do whatever you want with your website...it is yours but your intent was to make

the information available to other Reatta owners and making it private defeats that purpose.

We all appreciate what you have done and by simply working out the problems with Tom Jenkins would be the simplest overall solution. It appears he is being quite nice about the situation and because I (we) don't know what he find objectionable about the way you have

linked to his site, you are best suited to working it out with him.

A lot of my stuff is on his site because he offer to put it there starting back in 1996 or 97.

I have never met him but back then he was a civilian working for the Navy in Hawaii do web sites for them.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

The info on Tom's website does not seem to be copyrighted, aside from the FSM. He also does not seem to receive any profit from it.

I'm not saying that Tom is an ass for wanting Ronnie to remove the content he linked, I'm just saying that I don't see a legal obligation nor do I see a motive (I'm not wanting to take a stance or sides in this subject).

[KDirk]

Ronnie,

I am not sure what content is specifically in dispute in the above screen cap, but I assume it to be the synopsis of the Reatta's history. If so, a new synopsis can be written giving the pertinent facts without taking it verbatim from another site. This is public knowledge, so no one has an exclusive right to the posting of the facts. A simple re-write would eliminate any allegations of plagiarism or unauthorized use.

If any of the tutorials you have posted came from (or are wrapped as you have pointed out) Reatta.net, the first question is who originated the tutorial. If information on Reatta.net was copied from the AACA forums here, and you have simply put up the same archived postings (regardless of the technicalities of copying vs. wrapping) I don't see where there is an issue to be made.

If Tom has specific permission from the AACA to present information originally posted on this forum on his site, then you should simply request the same permission and when granted, would be free to duplicate any such postings. Of course, if the postings here are considered public, non-copyrighted material then you shouldn't even have to do that, as no one other than AACA has the right to dictate their use elsewhere.

Any material that Tom has written and posted himself that was originated Reatta.net would either require his permission to re-post (wrap), or be removed in the absence of such permission. Any material supplied and posted to Reatta.net by others (such as Barney) would only need their OK, unless exclusive use was granted to Reatta.net by the creators of any such material.

I find this type of thing unfortunate and shortsighted. As was pointed out already, we are talking about a 20 year old car and the point is simply to benefit all owners of the car to further their ability to learn about, maintain and enjoy their cars. Instead of existing for the common good, we get into eye-poking disputes about who "owns" what information and what and where it can be used. I understand that time and effort is invested in creating and maintaining a site, but there seems to be a lack of goodwill. Perhaps there is more back story to this episode than I am aware of, if so it may explain the apparent tension.

The thing is, these are not commercial sites that generate great profit for their respective owners. If money was being lost by one site "stealing" information and thereby traffic from another I can see where there would be a legitimate complaint. I don't see that being the case here.

I would request that you not take your site private, as I do visit it regularly and consider it a valuable resource. If you need to remove or redo some content, then so be it. It will still be a useful site for Reatta owners and I hope you realize that and reconsider such a drastic response.

KDirk

[DAVES89]

Why do I feel like I showed up late to a class reunion, where two women are seen wearing the same exclusive dress?

Ronnie you have my permission to do what ever you wish with my postings on your website.

[padgett]

Anything I post publicly is not expected to be private.

[Ronnie]

Why do I feel like I showed up late to a class reunion, where two women are seen wearing the same exclusive dress?

Ronnie you have my permission to do what ever you wish with my postings on your website.

Dave,

I'm sorry I removed the main part of my first post before you had a chance to read it. What I have quoted below should help you understand what was posted.

Sir,

In line.

With consideration and respect,

--Tom

On 12/16/2009 3:43 PM, Ronnie wrote:

> Tom:

>

> As you requested, all references to reatta.net that I could find have

> been removed from reattaowner.com. If I come across others in the future

> that I overlooked they will be removed immediately upon discovery.

Thank you.

> I want to make it clear that no files from reatta.net were copied to, or

> hosted on, reattaowner.com as you implied. Therefore, no deletion of

> files was needed. Reatta.net pages were displayed on reattaowner.com by

> means of a technique known as a wrapper, similar to an html iframe, to

> provide information for visitors to reattaowner.com. That was noted at

> the top of most pages with reatta.net pages wrapped. I admit I might

> have failed to do that on all pages but it was not intentional.

I understand, and if I implied that you were "hosting" the pages from

reatta.net, I apologize.

Indeed, what I mean was that your site enabled the pages at reatta.net

to be accessed from reattaowner.com. That is, web hits would not occur

at reatta.net for these pages, but rather reattaowner.com. Users who

visited your site and clicked/visited the reatta.net pages would tally

your web counters (as it were).

> I'm sorry that you were offended by reatta.net pages being viewed on

> reattaowner.com. The goal of reattaowner.com is to provide information

> to the Reatta enthusiast. I thought that would be your goal with

> reatta.net but I guess that is not the case.

I wasn't offended at all - in fact, if I came across harshly, again, I

apologize.

> I don't understand your thinking on limiting the use of information

> about the Buick Reatta but I respect your decision to do so. I apologize

> for any inconvenience I may have caused.

I am not limiting information about the Buick Reatta in any way. In

fact, I appreciate, value and encourage any and all information to be

posted on the internet from any user, web site or host.

However, it took me years of hand coding the pages (that's why they are

so simple) and to gather the information that I would really rather have

reside on reatta.net (and no where else).

If you'd like to simply "link" the reatta.net pages, by all means do so

but in a method that takes/migrates the user from reattaowner.com over

to reatta.net.

[Bushwack]

I respect anyone's effort in assembling a comprehensive web site. I've done it for my businesses and it isn't easy (and my sites do not involve cgi or engaging in commerce).

My opinion is the internet has evolved into a media of sharing information. Ronnie, if (insert name here) doesn't want his info wrapped within your url, I can accept that (foolish for the most part but then I must not be privy to certain information). If you now feel slighted and want to take your site down, that's unfortunate.

In the eight months of Reatta ownership (two and counting), I've found your site a wealth of information (coming from someone who is not a do-it-yourself kind of guy). As I mentioned, today's purpose of the internet is to share information. It's one of the few avenues society has left that promotes unselfishness. In a twisted way, taking your site down is another step towards the decay of society. Don't do it (and I'm being selfish with my request).

[Guest mhuffy]

Barney is on target here. Work out the differences with Tom. Both websites are resources for us all. Making yours private defeats the purpose, as you described. You might as well say you are pulling the website.

I am curious though.... I would like to know if there is a financial reason that is fueling his fire. Is there revenue being generated by one or both websites? I am not against making money, mind you (I have a wife, kids, grandchildren and 2 Reattas to support), but if so, I would better understand where this is coming from and the path that it is traveling.

I am sure there is a solution that can benefit everyone.

Marc

Marc

[padgett]

Ronnie: Just an observation but when I use a link (and the Internet is rapidly evolving into a mass of interconnecting hyperlinks), the URL is cited either immediately above or below.

There are any number of ways to nest one page (even one from another server) inside another. There are even ways to transverse the web while keeping the surroundings from the original page, it is really what the entire concept of hyperlinking is about.

The only machine doing the copying is the browser, the server just has a collection of links (and can be seen is you right click inside a page and select "view source").

In fact almost any time you go to a merchants page you are really seeing things from many different sources (Akamai and DoubleClick being some of the largest).

Now the one reason I ask people to start from my home page is that I have certain copyright notices and permissions there that relate to the subpages. Other than that the main reason to use links and not copies (if you want a copy, see SNAGGER) is that when I update a page, copies are obsolete but the links get the latest.

Now if someone really does not want internal pages copied, there are ways to make the copy unusable because certain values have to come from the home page but that is another issue.

We now return to ob. Reattae.

[charlie1]

This stuff makes my hair hurt.

I just like reading and learning and on occasion contributing. I have used Ronnie's site with great success. Removing the radio helped me a lot.

Thanks to all.

[Guest ekvh]

Chas1, be glad you have hair to hurt. Otherwise, I'm with you with nothing but thanks to all the guys who give this free advice here and other places, ie Reatta Owners Journal