Guest gwatkins Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 A friend just bought this: 1924 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan - Clinton - Cars - 1924 dodge sedan and I'm helping him move it and do some (hopefully) minor repairs. He has no computer so I'm helping him with online sourcing. Are shop manuals or parts books available for this car? I'm an old Porsche guy and know nothing about these beauties so any help is much appreciated.Thanks, Gordon Watkins '63 Porsche 356B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan arnett (2) Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 You need to contact Joe in the prior link in this forum. He miss quoted his body style and has a sedan not a touring. Contact Meyer or Romar as they have a reproduction manual. Nice looking sedan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Thanks Jan. I have since transported this car and with a little digging found the Meyer and Romar sites and it looks like they have the manuals I'm looking for as well as various parts. One thing I'm finding though is that there doesn't seem to be much info or parts specifically for the '24 Sedan. Is that because it's so similar to 23 and 26 or other models or is it more rare? Thanks for the help and I'm sure I'll be posting more newbie questions as we get into this thing which appears to be amazingly intact for its age.Gordon Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan arnett (2) Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Gordon: I do not know why the information is not out there but many parts fit other years. The Dodge club has done several articles on these models and you can get the back issues on a CD. The 1924 is different from the 1923 but similar to the 1925. Tell your friend that I wish him luck and keep the questions coming. There are people on this forum that are more knowledgeable of Dodge issues then I am. I am a generalist because I have worked on old cars for over 45 years. I am also the technical editor for the Durant club and a lot of information is interchangeable. Compare the hood, the slope of the cowl and the rear fender over the grease fitting and you will see what I mean.Have a great day Edited October 6, 2009 by jan arnett (2) additional information (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Thanks JanSo is the Mechanics Instruction Manual 1914-1926 sold by Romer and Meyer useful for working on this car? Does it offer details on engine maintenance, etc? Are there other online sources for maintenance instructions?Thanks, Gordon Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldodgeboys Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yes, the Mechanics Manual will help. Also very helpful is the operators manual (owners book). Check eBay (or other sources) for originals, they are much better quality than reprints.As for the year of your car... This can be a confusing and misleading subject if you are not familiar with these cars. Many things have occurred in the past that can cause wrong car year identifications. Cars were not marketed in calendar years, but everyone uses that system now so that we can all talk the same language.Post your car number (on the floor toe board) and engine numbers here. It will verify your year and correct engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for the manuals. I have an original Parts price book but it's not particularly useful as far as I can tell.The serial number on the ID plate is A 110384 which appears to be made between May and June, 1924. Engine numbers are 60821 0n left side of block and 8022 and A16147 on the top.In a 2001 appraisal it was described as a Series 116From the photos above from Jan, it's definitely more like the '24 than the '23.Thanks for any and all help!Gordon Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I can find Owners manuals for 1923 and 1926 but not '24. Will the '26 manual be accurate enough?Gordon Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldodgeboys Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Built May 1924. 1924 Series (124). 116" wheel base.The engine number is located on the engine block just above the carburetor and is stamped, not cast. Please double check the engine number...1923 is very close mechanically (essentially identical from a maintenance/operation standpoint). The body is different than the 1924.1926 has some engine changes (first year for the 'Fast-4' engine). The body is almost the same as 1924.If you are looking for an authentic manual, many are missing the pull-out lube chart, so keep an eye out for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Finally got the car moved here to my garage where I can take a closer look and the engine number is very faint and tricky to read, but appears to be 808-366. Does that sound right? According to the manual (I found an original 1924 owners manual complete with lube chart) the number is also somewhere on the left rear engine mount but we couldn't find it or other chassis numbers, maybe because of heavy paint.Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldodgeboys Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Your engine number should be higher than the car serial number by about 30,000 to 80,000 (ish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldodgeboys Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 BTW: the numbers reached 1,000,000 in 1923 and started over with an "A" prefix. Myers Early Dodge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I rechecked the engine number and it was correct -808-366 It is preceeded by a prefix of an upside down triangle, like half or the DB logo. Any chance this may have been a factory replacement engine? I know on my '63 Porsche the factory used a special designation when it shipped complete replacement engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldodgeboys Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Can you post pictures of the engine and serial number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Looks like I can only load one image at a time. Here's the right side and next I'll pst the left. First time I've uploaded pics on this site. I can get some closer shots if need be but the serial number is difficult to read by eye. I'll try cleaning it up a bit more and maybe I can get a legible shot of the numbers.Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Here's the left and right side as well as the oil pan we pulled to clean. Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Gordon if you shrink the pict. a little it will load more than one if thats easier for you to do, that looks like a nice old car from what I can see, if you dont mind a silly question what is the oil can for?? Arent they eagle oil cans??? I used to have an early Chevrolet with open valvetrain and the purpose of the oil can was pretty clear but I am unclear as to why your engine would need it, for oiling starter or Gen maybe??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I'm just figuring this machine out myself - it belongs to a friend - and I've wondered about the oilcan myself. I'm sure others here can better answer your question, but maybe it is for the valve train. The valve train is covered by simple sheet metal covers, no gaskets, attached by wingnuts below the exhaust manifold through which an opening apparently allows air to flow directly from under the exhaust manifold stove (preheater?), across the valve train and through the heads, to the carb. There is no air filter but the mechanics manual mentions that one was available as an option! Is that what you mean by "open ventilation"? We haven't tried to remove the oil can yet- looks pretty delicate - but I'll try to better identify it.The elegant simplicity of this thing amazes me but the maintenance must have been a bear for daily drivers of the day.Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Here's the car on blocks with the hood removed and one of the dash.Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72caddy Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 The oil can was for a few oil points under the hood. The distributor has a small opening that you are supposed to oil every so often. I know there are others, just havn't worked on my 19 in a while.My 19 has grease CAPS (not fittings) that you were suppose to give 'half a turn' every 50 to 100 miles! Your cap to the right of the starter button is the grease cap to te main throw out bearing in the transmission. Make sure you have good grease and that it can get down in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 We've ordered an oil pan gasket set and I'm wondering if anyone has tips on reinstalling the pan? Is it sufficient to simply scrape the old gasket material from the block and the pan and use permatex to attach the new gaskets? Also, it looks like it might take at least 2 and maybe 3 people to reinstall the pan, line up the oil pump, and guide the oil level rod through the block. Any suggestions are appreciated.I removed the oil can and looked it over. It's pretty rusty and I couldn't see any id but maybe with a little cleaning something will appear.Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwollam Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 If the engine is still in the car it is helpful to have someone help with the oil float rod. Remove the oil pump from the pan and install it after pan is installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Thanks Dave. The engine is in the car. If the oil pump is removed is it likely to need a new gasket?Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwollam Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Yes, it takes 2. 1 for the cover and 1 between the pump and the pan. The originals will be very brittle and need replaced. If you make them yourself, be sure and note how very thin they are. Keep the new gaskets as close to that thickness as possible as thicker (under the cover) will lower the oil pressure and under the pump a thicker one would make the gears misalign. They tend to leak there anyway and new gaskets will solve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldodgeboys Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Permatex #2 works well to hold the gaskets as you install the pan. It helps to lay the gaskets out flat for a while first. Watch the rear main cap oil seal...I hate that thing and mine still leaks.Coat the oil pump guts with engine oil as you assemble it. Prime the pump after it's been bolted in place. You can prime the pump through the check valve port.A couple of extra threaded studs installed in the pan bolt holes will aid in the alignment of the pan.I use 3 people to install the pan. My wife pulls the wire attached to the indicator stick, my son helps push one side of the pan into place, and I push the other side of the pan. Oh yeah, the grunting sounds are mine also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I am wondering if it took 3 people to do it when the car was new??? I kinda doubt it but this same question comes up pretty frequently and its always the same answer. It would be interesting for me to know if the sevice manual mentions the complexity and the need for helpers or maybe someone has an old autotrade journal that mentions it. There must be an easier way or a shortcut to the process and I am curious to know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Maybe the engine was up side down in the factory? Would take a lot less hands. In '24 they built about 200,000 cars, so they had an easier way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 That is good thinking and I am sure you are right but I was wondering more about the service shops after the car was sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cozza Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 According to the book of infomation for a 19231 drain oil 2 remove engine shields3 disconnect oil line to engine4 remove screws which holds the oil pan to cyl. block and timing cover5 remove 6 screws which holds the rear of the oil pan to the rear motor support6 remove 2sq. head shoulder bolts which holds the oil pan to the cyl. block projecting through the bottom of the oil pan near the rear.7 lower the oil pan This can be faciltated by turning the steering whl. to the right and swinging the rear of the oil pan toward the left side of the car.Install:1 place oil pan in position. place the oil pan over the tie rod then raise into position.while the pan is being raised into position the oil level rod should be guided into the hole by ANOTHER PERSONreverse procedure to remove pan.This should take 3.5 hrs. Yeah right!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Permatex #2 works well to hold the gaskets as you install the pan. It helps to lay the gaskets out flat for a while first. Watch the rear main cap oil seal...I hate that thing and mine still leaks.""Coat the oil pump guts with engine oil as you assemble it. Prime the pump after it's been bolted in place. You can prime the pump through the check valve port.A couple of extra threaded studs installed in the pan bolt holes will aid in the alignment of the pan.I use 3 people to install the pan. My wife pulls the wire attached to the indicator stick, ""my son helps push one side of the pan into place, and I push the other side of the pan. Oh yeah, the grunting sounds are mine also...Thanks for the detailed answers. Do you use permatex on both surfaces, block and pan? By rear main seal, do you mean the felt? I haven't removed ours yet and wasn't sure if it completely encircles the crank or is just a semi-circle on the bottom, although it's part of the gasket set I've ordered so I guess probably the latter. Any tricks on R & R of it? Does it get permatex too?So you attach a wire to the indicator stick to guide it through the block? How do you attach it so it doesn't hang up?Thanks for the tips, Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldodgeboys Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Put Permatex on the pan only and let it set up with the gasket on it. I use books to press the gasket down while its setting up.The rear seal is tough and I haven't had much luck with it. Can someone else come up with a good method?Use a thin wire (.020" or so) and tape it to the stick. Watch out, too much wire or tape and it wont fit through the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thanks Joe, takes two, that what I was interested in knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Backyardmechanic Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hello,Yes it does take two to install these even when the engine is out. (makes life easier)I have had luck with the new red spray can sealer on gasket and pan.Just spary on both gasket, and pan waite for a few min then assemble gasket to pan, I then useing kite string or the wife favor yarn tie the gasket to the pan thu the bolt holes then just before touqing the pan I cut the string and pull it thu.On the rear main seal (felt) I use selack gasket cement to hold the felt on the bearing cap.I also use a bead of selcon(sp) where the gasket meets the block to insure that it's saled there.Works for us.Vern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Thanks for the pointers Vern. A couple of questions: What is selack gasket cement? I've searched online but can't find it. Is it similar to permatex? And when you say you apply silicone "where the gasket meets the block", do you mean you cover the entire gasket where the pan bolts to the block or are you talking about just where the pan fits over the rear main felt seal?Thanks for your help, Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwollam Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I use 3M weatherstrip adhesive to glue the gasket to the pan and also the felt to the rear main. Then use just a dab of silicone at the corners only to seal the end gaps of the felts. Mechanics have for many years used the "yellow snot" 3M adhesive on pan gaskets, valve cover gaskets, etc. Apply to both pan and gasket, let tack up, then place gasket on pan. This way gasket stays put and pan is removable without tearing up gasket. A side note, for those who make their own gaskets, make sure you don't not use too thick or thin of material (cork) or you change the distance from the rod dippers to the oil trough in the pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldodgeboys Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 What is selack gasket cement? This may be what Vern is referring to:Permatex® Indian Head® Gasket Shellac CompoundThe original quality formula. Hard setting, economical sealant. Seals all common gasketing materials in low temperature and low pressure applications. Temperature range -65°F to 350°F (-54°C to 177°C); resists diesel fuels and most shop fluids.http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/Permatex_Indian_Head_Gasket_Shellac_Compound.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Backyardmechanic Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks Oldogeboy I ment Shellac and use a dap of silicone on both ends of Felt where it meets the oil pan gasket Vern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The gasket set we got from Meyers includes 2 long felts for the "wings" of the pan but they are considerably thicker than the channels in the pan. Should they be trimmed down to fit? It appeared that when removing the old felts that the channel had been hammered over slightly to pinch the felts in the channel. Is that recommended? Should sealant be used in the channel to secure the felts?Thanks, Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Backyardmechanic Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 You can install that felt by useing a thin putty knife forceing it into the channel No sealer needed.The felt is there to control the dust more then anything.Next time call Myers for more inflo.Vern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwatkins Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks as usual for the helpful information, Vern. I actually did contact Myers but had not received a reply and we're anxious to get this pan reinstalled.Appreciate your help, Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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