Avanti R2, 1963, refresh

[unimogjohn]

It is Thursday, September 1st. Heading into town this morning in the Avanti to run errands. Perfect day for it.

Here is a report from Greg on his Avanti work.

"Nice weather. I didn't feel like coming down from the hangar on the hill.

Seabiscuit, the Maroon Avanti, has been living up to it's namesake. Last night I used it for the trip over the ridge to Mother's house. That's where Barbara met me and we all went for Barb's birthday dinner. Then another pleasant drive back. I did make a discovery, there at 65 on I66 in the dark.

I've been wondering what's been wrong with the instrument lighting. Especially the clock. Can hardly read it. Same clock, same bulb (in fact the clock uses a clear bulb, all the other bulbs are dyed red). Voltmeter shows 12v in the socket......

I for some reason wanted to get a closer look at the speedometer, and I just happened to have my 1.5 magnifiers in my pocket. Slipped them on to check mileage or something, and accidently glanced over at the clock. There it was. Ohhhhh, there's the problem.

Today I also used it for a business trip, destination: the other side of the DC beltway. Ran like a champ. Unless we got stopped in snarled traffic or a long light. And there was some of both. The day being on the warm side, and all that asphalt ..... I didn't need glasses to keep track of the temperature gauge. It would start creeping beyond 180*.

When it would get toward 190*, I would use that old trick. I would find myself surrounded by traffic with windows rolled up and air conditioners full on. I was the guy with the windows down, coolant valve open and heater full on. It does help.

I did keep the temp below the danger mark, but when it gets that warm the car starts gagging and gasping. I'm blaming the gasohol. Once you get rolling again and back to 180, it is ready to rumble.

Tonight I took the time to install the "horn button" retention hardware that just surfaced. Still don't know what I did with the center medallion. So I tightened the steering wheel nut (the wheel hasn't been restored yet) and snatched the medallion from the nearby black Avanti. Does that count as time spent on black car disassembly?

I also took a few minutes to install the trim piece over the fuel filler pipe. I'm not impressed with the fit, it does need some adjustment, for now.....it's mine.

Photos enclosed:

Steering wheel center installed,

The rear seat trim piece.

Your whatizit quiz?

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[Scotts_DG8]

John,

First I wanted to say I wanted to be the 1,001 poster here on your thread. I still follow each and every day that there is any activity here. I especially have come to like Greg's updates and activities. Too bad that you guys are so far away as I would be stopping by every few weeks or so I'm sure. Then again maybe its a good thing that I'm not so close. Scott...

[unimogjohn]

Scott, glad to see that you are still following along. Who would have thought that we would have hit over 80,000 hits. Here I thought I would do this blog for a couple of weeks and it would die. Who knows now how long it will last as Greg continues to pull treasures out of storage.

And I do, like you, continue to follow Bernie and his work on the Packard, Roger on his magical model work, and once in awhile Dean still posts too on the Ford. Like getting letters from old friends.

Speaking of Greg, here is his last night's report. Remember that nasty roll bar cover that he was working on a few days ago. Well .........

"Chipping away at the upholstery issues remaining on the maroon car. Chose tonight to work on the panels over the rear quarters and the rollbar cover. There are a few more trim items to do, maybe this weekend."

Edited September 2, 2011 by unimogjohn (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

It is Saturday, Sept 3rd. Greg called and asked us if we wanted to attend a orphan car show on Monday, we said sure. So we are off to Winchester, VA on Monday.

And here is Greg's report for Friday.

"Found some time this evening for more finishing touches on the Maroon Avanti.

Buffed and installed the knobs and stainless trim for the seat adjustments, also buffed and installed the stainless trim that helps retain the door sill plates.

The plates themselves are far from NOS, in fact they are a bit tattered. I had scrubbed them, then brightened them up with some aerosol black rubber coating. They will do for now, until I cough up the money for the reproductions. That money better spent on the black car.

This coming Monday I'm supposed to take it to a display at Winchester's Kern Motor Company. A homecoming, that's the dealership that sold the car new. A couple times. I think the Unimogs will follow along in theirs. I've a copy of the original invoice in the window.

Kern will be showcasing the brands that they have handled over the years. Packard, Hudson, Edsel, Studebaker, Indian,..... a list of losers as long as your arm. Should be fun.

Enjoy your weekend.

GREG."

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[unimogjohn]

Here is Greg's report from today, Saturday.

"Had a nice visit from Jim Davis and Ken Peppard. I always enjoy time with them.

Then I had some one on one time with R5054, black Avanti. With the right front wheel off I could work on removing some of the stuff that is hidden in the fender well.

That would be the supercharger coolant tank, electric pump, cooler, breather hose and other hardware.

Dark and lonely job, but someone's got to do it.

This system is a close copy of the type used on the Bonneville team Avantis. I strayed from their method of fluid feed to the blower. It looks like I used the vintage John Erb method of directing the oil to the drive elements via a rifled shaft and rotating coupling.

I haven't forgotten about the item quiz from the other day. You might get that story tomorrow."

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[Jim Yergin]

John,

What time is the show in Winchester on Monday?

Jim Yergin

[unimogjohn]

Jim, Greg told me that he has to be there by nine, so expect it to be around ten or so. He said that it is at Kern Motor Company. Where that is I do not know as am going to follow Greg. He did send me a note last night that he was not comfortable in taking his newly restored Avanti out into the bad weather. So have no idea if we will go or not, depends on the weather right now.

[unimogjohn]

It is Monday, Sept. 5th. Lots of rain coming this way from Tropical Storm Lee. Suppose to rain for three or four days. But I got the green Avanti ready for the car show today. Greg is to call this morning to say he is going or not. So we are waiting at 6 AM.

But here is Greg's report from Sunday.

"More disassembly of old 5054, black Avanti.

Front bumper brackets, parking lights, transmission cooler, wiper arms, that kind of thing.

Now for the quiz mystery.

A few years ago we were invited to Air&Space to see them take apart the Wright Vin Fiz machine. The engine on it virtually NOS.

I'd noticed that it had an unusual feature about it, one I'd never seen before on a Wright engine. Took a couple pictures, but didn't document it because I couldn't authenticate the thing.

Now that we are studying the Wright Model R machine of 1910, closeup examination reveals that same item in abundance.

A call downtown to find the current location. In a glass display case with no hope of getting to it with calipers. I'd rather it had been on an airframe thirty feet in the air.

Peter Jakab took it upon himself to contact other departments in hopes that another sample could be located. From the restoration facility still at Silver Hill came news that there were some on hand. New Old Stock.

A fast trip resulted in the loan of one to aid in the production of some accurate copies.

Enclosed are photos of the sample, a typical Wright method, and the artifact in use. You'll see that normally the Wrights used wire , two wraps around a hose and then twisted tight. Somewhere along the way they used an unusual manufactured hose clamp.

Neat find of a trivial piece of pre WWI hardware."

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[unimogjohn]

It is Tuesday, September 6th. Here is Greg's report on the Labor Day car show in Winchester, VA. I will post my pics later.

"Got an early start this morining.

We met the Fesers in their Avanti and proceeded to a small car show hosted by Kern Motor Company in Winchester, Va. They had invited brands of cars sold by them. I recall seeing Packards, Kiaser-Fraisers, Hudsons, Metropolitans, Nashes, American Motors, Jeeps, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, a few Buicks, and of course Studebakers.

A nice turnout on a very threatening day. A treat for me was hearing some stories about my car, of the two Avantis sold there, mine was the one with the manual transmission. They didn't forget that.

Upon leaving the show, we had to cruise the downtown for old times sake, and lingered long enough to get a couple pictures of the car parked by the old Kern Motors, where I first saw R2724 in 1963.

A pleasant ride home....until the sky opened up. Now Barbara knows what I mean when I say Avantis leak.

Photo enclosed.

[unimogjohn]

We had a great time at the Kern Motors car show yesterday. It is fun having a convoy of Avantis. One car sped up to see the cars and filmed us going down the road. The cars are a hit whenever we take them out.

Here are a few pics of the show. And it did not rain until we were three miles from home, and then the skies opened up. First time I used the wipers for any period of time. Worked great. And the car did not leak! So dry carpets this morning.

Oh, one story. Bruce Kern stopped by our car. He told us a story of him working at the family dealership, and seeing an Avanti for sale on the lot. He decided that he would take it out for a drive. He was fifteen at the time and did not have a licence; nor did he have permission from his dad. He said that he drove it about three miles and decided to "punch it" to see what it felt like. Well, he said that it threw him back into the seat and scared him to death. He almost lost control of the car as the rear wheels broke loose. Needless to say, he slowed the beast down, regained control and headed back to the dealership. To this day he remembers that ride. And what is more interesting is that it is Greg's maroon Avanti.

[unimogjohn]

Here are the last of the pics. We counted cars and figure that there were about 50 cars in attendance. Pretty good turn out considering the threatening weather. Also met quite a few of Greg's car nuts, which was quite fun and interesting. Lots of stories.

We had a lot of folks stop by and admire our green Avaniti. Most said do not paint or restore it. They loved it as a survivor.

[unimogjohn]

It is Wednesday, Sept. 7th. Rainy day here today. Rained so hard this morning that it woke me up at 4:30. So I am up. A neighbor want to use our enclosed trailer so have to move things around this morning. I have the 28 Buick in it so have to offload and move her back into the garage. The green Avanti goes back into the temp tarp garage for a week or so. Hope that I can get the trailer out of the wet pasture. It could be ugly as the pasture is not exactly flat.

Asked Greg what his plans are for the black Avanti. He said a full restoration just like the Maroon Avanti. It will be a body on restoration. Greg never sells anything so I do not know it future. I would guess it would go to the collection up in MD for display and occasional use.

Here is Greg's report from last night. "Just realized it wasn't Monday.

Got in some time on the hill tonight. I'm continuing with removal of exterior stuff. The mirror put up a fight. Ultimately I used vise grips to extract the screws and well-nuts. Take that!

Proceeding rearward, the taillights, backup lights, they gave up without too much hassle. The license bracket, another story. I had to drill the heads of the bolts so that I could break them off and then poke the wellnuts through.

Then the fun part, back bumper. Rusted hardware did put up a fight. I could unscrew everything except the outer bolts. With victory so close, I used a hacksaw to cut them.

Sorry for the sorry pictures. That's about as light as it gets in there. At least until I take time to put up some decent lighting. After all, the time changes back in the near future. The one photo of the trunk lid is so you can remind me which bolt retains the clip for the back up light wiring.

Except for the Studebaker script, I'm ready to begin gutting the interior so that I can get to the wiper motor, heater, supercharger scripts, pirate's buckles on the rear quarter panels, door handles, etc."

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[unimogjohn]

Still Wednesday. Waiting for a package in the mail, and it finally came today. Sometime you score on Ebay. More often now you don't. It was much better a few years ago before the big guys started flooding your search for parts. Must be lots of folks in China producing HID lights and car covers.

But, as I said, sometime you score. I won a 1928 generator and distributor as a spare for my 1928 standard Buick. These are becoming very hard to find. And when you do they are usually some rusted hulk of metal that are only good as an boat anchor.

But this is the exception. It is clean, everything turns freely, and looks like she will work right out of the box. I will clean and inspect, and put it with the other few spares that I have for the car. I really do not have many spares, ignition parts mostly and a water pump. I have owned the car since 1984, and I have not had to replace anything, only a carb cleaning now and then. Great car. Here is a pic.

[unimogjohn]

It is Thursday, Sept. 8th. Soon there will be nothing left of the Avanti but the shell. Here is Greg's report and pics.

"Thought it would be a good night to tackle the seat removal. No piece of cake.

Some of the fasteners would unscrew, but a bunch of them wouldn't. Mean old Mr. Rust. Resumed drilling through the stubborn screws. Start with a small bit and keep enlarging until the head would yield. About half of the screws including those holding the buckets to the tracks got the treatment.

I've given the front seats another scrubbing with mildew detergent, sponge and washrag. I need to get a bristle brush and go over them again sometime. They look pretty good with little to repair.

I do need to drill and rethread the seat bottoms, repair the loosened nutplates in the floor like I did on the maroon car.

Those black seats really eat the soak up the light from the camera flash."

[unimogjohn]

It is Friday, September 9th. Here is Greg's Report from last night.

"I'll get this report off while I clean upholstery.

Tonight I removed the door panels and the rear armrest panels. It seems I always have to drill through the nut that retains the escutcheon around the trunk release handle. That in order to loosen the left armrest. (Two for two)

They are getting the detergent treatment, and you can see the one door had suffered a temporary (seventies) attachment with duct tape. I'm trying some of that goo remover , soaking it now.

I also find that the rear panels had been mistaken for door panels by some vagrant mice. I don't think I will need to replace them, but hopefully repair them. Somewhere I have some of the black vinyl that was removed from the front seats when they were recovered way back when. That might make good donor material that matches."

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[unimogjohn]

Still Friday. Finally finished farm chores so I had some time this morning to play with the green Avanti.

The car initially was overheating after I got her running. Turned out it was a bad thermostat stuck closed. An easy fix. Now she runs at 180 degrees unless it is very hot outside and sitting at a long series of stop lights.

But I remember in my youth that I always put on a coolant recovery bottle as an accessory. Many cars of the 60s did not have such bottles. I always thought that it was a good idea to keep the air out of a coolant system for better cooling and rust prevention. I figured that I might be able to do this for the Avanti.

So off to Ebay to look around. I found a NOS after-market unit like the kind I remembered so bought it for $12 including shipping. I thought it might work in the very limited space in the Avanti engine bay.

I played with the installation last night and this morning I put it in. It fits perfectly in the little cup between the horn and the radiator support shelf on the passenger side of the fender. I had to make a wood plate for it to sit on and to allow the hose to drop below the plate so it would not be pinched. This plate also gives the bottom of the plastic tank some support.

The little plastic tank fits perfectly. No clearance issues with the hood or hood hinge. Looks like it was made for the Avanti. I have it just sitting there with no fasteners. It does not have much room to move around and held in place with no place to move to. Perfect.

The radiator cap that came with the unit does not fit the radiator tank. I think it might if I bent the tabs, but I believe that my cap on the car will work. We will see.

Here are some pics of the installation.

[Willys77]

Sure do like that little 1952 ? WILLYS, John!

[unimogjohn]

It is Sunday, Sept 11th. Pulled the overflow bottle that I just installed on the Avanti. Seems that since it was made in the 60s the glue that holds both halves together gave way with age. So it leaks pretty good. Glued the seams back together, and it is drying for 24 hours or so. Then a five minute re-install.

And Greg is busy also. Wonder if he found any money under that old carpet?

"Yesterday (Saturday) was IDYSD. International Drive Your Studebaker Day. I'm not making that up. A beautiful day, some time spent working on one, some time spent driving one.

I pulled the rotten carpeting from 5054 (black Avanti), not a pleasant job. More time spent removing other trim.

Then a pleasant ride through the countryside to Middleburg, Va. 'Ol Seabisuit (Maroon Avanti) ran fine. Found a nice lunch on the main street and then a pleasant drive back. Nice day to be out.

Today was just another IWOYSD International Work On Your Studebaker Day. Tidying things in the engine compartment, removed the heater assembly,the wiper motor assembly, and then underneath to pull the driveshaft and get things unhooked from the transmission. It is almost ready to come out (John).

Another pleasant day. Also a day for reflection."

[unimogjohn]

It is Wednesday, Sept. 13th. I actually did some car stuff today. A break from my farm chores. I bought some 3M headlight re-finisher and decided that I better try it on the 2003 Passat W8. The headlight lenses were almost opaque and I was having a hard time seeing at night. So a good cleaning was in order. After about an hour I was done and could not believe the results. The lenses were perfect and so clear you could almost put your hand through them.

I had some product left over and decided to also do the rear lights on the Suburban. They were very faded and looked terrible. But they too came back to life and now look great.

Then Greg asked me to come over and help remove the black Avanti transmission. I took over my "big jack" (I think it would lift a house as I can hardly lift it) to help out. I can tell you that the transmission was very heavy, and that was without the torque converter. Glad that Greg took it out.

Greg tells the story in his report. I did take a couple of pics too, so you will see those first and then Greg's. The first four are mine.

Here is his PM report. "Thanks to the help of "Big Jack" Feser, we were able to wrestle my transmission to the ground. Nothng broken, no injuries.

Glad that's over with.

Thanks John!"

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[unimogjohn]

It is Thursday, Sept. 15th. Well, I will be repairing the Kubota tractor. Sprung another leak in the hydraulics so will be attempting to take off that hose and get it in for a new one. The fittings are tucked way back into the engine compartment and are awkward to get to, so I am sure that it will be a fight.

Here is Greg's report from last night. He took a break from the black Avanti.

" No photos tonight.

I took time after work to deliver some items to Rob's Garagmahol. I also got in some quiet time with the Stoddard. Now the steering box is filled with grease and the filler plug tightened. I'm scheduled to have the car at the Rockville, Md show on Oct 15.

Rob came stumbling in after a hard day at the office, we got in a few minutes work on the '28 Chrysler depot wagon, and I was on my way.

Pleasant evening."

[unimogjohn]

It is Monday, Sept 19th. On Friday I filled the recovery bottle in the green Avanti after letting the glue dry for three days. Must have missed a spot because it still leaks a bit. So pulled it again and re-glued everything. We will see today if I was successful or not.

Spent the weekend in upstate PA. What gorgeous mountain country. In the hamlet we were in the Amish were gleaning applies from the trees in the community. Our friends still had lots of apples on their trees so let them pick what was left. We had a good time talking to them. They use the left over apples for the making of cider. One group had a wagon full. Here is a pic.

And Greg was busy as usual. Here is his report.

"It's been a busy weekend , got in some old car action too.

The last time I started the '21 Dodge, I noticed that the engine was getting noisier. There was a rythmic slight knocking sound heard near the top of #4 cylinder. About piston speed.

Today I found time to drain the oil and drop the pan for an internal inspection. That was all I had time for. I will check the bearings for excess clearance first. Hopefully tomorrow.

Yesterday I took care of a couple tires that had leaked down. Exchanged the old tubes for other old tubes.

No time for photos. All for now."

[unimogjohn]

It is Thursday, September 22nd. Greg called me and said that his boss was sending him out of town for a few days and would be out of touch. But he just did manage to send this "work" report. Us? Not too much on car stuff. Been running back and forth to the vet as one of the llamas was attacked and chewed up pretty bad. We do not know what got him, probably coyotes. His flanks are the worse and has bites to his face and chest. First attack in twelve years of owning the farm.

Anyway, here is Greg's interesting "work" report.

"Reporting from beautiful downtown Monee, Illinois.

A call from Art Bergstrom the patternmaker who is working up the patterns and core boxes for my Wright Brothers V8 airplane engine project resulted in a road trip. He preferred I view and sign off the work already done, or suggest revisions.

The drive out was at times harrowing, dark of night, pouring rain and misdirection by a newfangled GPS.

Today's visit with Art was well worth the trip. A beautiful example of a dying art, I was instructed in the method of moulding the exterior patterns and the sand core fabrication and assembly. A really neat job. Art says that he is enjoying the project, it is even making him think even though he's got fifty years of experience. Photographic evidence show that they split 90* from the customary method. That's the way he's doing them.

Now he will finish them and have them packed for a Hershey delivery in early October. There is a chance that I will get to inspect the Wright vertical four in the Science and Industry Museum collection in Chicago. Art says that since I am so close, he will escort us.

Your domestic correspondent."

[unimogjohn]

Remember a few months back we got to take our 1920s Buick to the "J Edgar" movie. Well, the movie trailer has finally come out. Here is a link. The movie is scheduled for release on November 11th. Guess that we will be first in line at the local theater.

[unimogjohn]

It is Monday, Sept. 26th. Greg made it home from his trip so his report is included. We took both the 23 McLaughlin Buick and the Avanti out to a community get together. Alice drove the Avanti on her own. She pronounced it "fit as a fiddle".

Here is Greg's report.

"Gee, long time no see. The whirlwind trip to the midwest is over, saw lots, did lots, now it's time to catch up.

A very nice visit with Art Bergstrom, the patternmaker. He claims to be enjoying the Wright Brothers V8 project, even though he's been in the business fifty years, done some really difficult and unusual jobs. They are turning out very nicely. Finishing them up, he'll deliver them to Hershey.

He also escorted us to the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago where among the fine exhibits, there is an original Wright vertical four on display. Serial #38, that would make it summer of 1911 manufacture.

Some sightseeing in Chicagoland, then the road home.

Back yesterday, I spent some time getting reacquainted with the '21 Dodge, which I left with it's gizzard hanging out. Checking the rods, I have tightened three of them, one to go.

Today with visiting Bob from Denver (not Bob Denver). He, Barb and I were able to hook up with the local HCCA tourists in Maryland for lunch, then drove on to Rob's garage where we aired some flat tires and tried a Stoddard start-up. With success.

Now it's back to business. Enclosed photo of Dodge guts. Sorry the one proves to be out of focus. Too bad, I'm not driving back up there to for a retake."

Edited September 26, 2011 by unimogjohn (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

It is Tuesday, Sept 27th. Greg has a real short report for today. I did ask him if he had found the source of the "knocking".

Here is Greg's report. " '21 Dodge: Get out and get under. Rod bearings are a now a little too tight. I'll go back through them again."

Here is the response I got back from Greg re the source of the knocking.

"I'm going to take up on the rods although I didn't find any that were obviously too loose. I'll put it back together after making a new pan gasket set. Then I'll run it to see if I made any difference.

If that didn't cure it, I'll have to pull the head and piston. I hate like hell to disturb the head gasket. Don't have another and I'm sure they're expen$ive to buy.

I did find a lot of crankshaft end play, but I don't think that would translate into the noise I'm hearing."

Edited September 27, 2011 by unimogjohn
added Greg's response to knocking question. (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

It is Friday, Sept. 30th. Here is Greg's report from late last night.

"Still doin' it. Working in the 1921 Dodge Garage.

I wasn't satisfied with the rod bearing adjustment, so I went through them again, and now they are ready for the cotter pins.

I still don't know if I made any difference in the noise I heard. While the caps were off, I did try to examine the wrist pins for wear.

I pushed, pulled and wiggled the rods in order to feel any excess play. The pins will move laterally in the pistons but no to contact the walls, the rods will easily travel from front to back on the pins, and although I can't feel any vertical slack, I can rock the rods on the pins. They all appear to have the same amount of wear, but I only heard the noise in the #4 cylinder. I know from experience that it doesn't take much clearance for the pin to make noise.

Tonight I cut some pan gaskets. Now it is time to start reassembly. Mitch wonders if that incident of the stuck engine due to bad gas might have done some internal damage. Hadn't thought of that.

What I don't get done this weekend will have to wait a while. Next week is the annual Hershey swap meet and show. Color me gone. Unless this monsoon weather interferes.

Tonight was the first time it has been nice enough to take the Avanti out for a spin. To the gas pump. Half a tank( at $3.29 for regular) of mid grade. Before I got back to the shed I passed some stations advertising $3.15. Timing is everything.

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[oldcar]

Hi John

With your Dodge do you still use the pistons with clamp bolts to secure the pins or are you using modern alloy pistons with the pins located by circ clips? If you are still using cast iron pistons with the clamp bolt make sure that they have not loosened and allowing the pins to run against the cylinder wall. That can make a tapping noise and will eventually wear groves in the cylinders. I have seen cast iron pistons where the bolts have dropped out. Old time bush mechanics used to turn down copper pennies to press in as end-plugs to prevent the pins running against the cylinder walls.

oldcar

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, here is Greg's response to your comment.

"Picture as shot from down under.

In response to the forum comment: I find this engine has split skirt aluminum alloy pistons. The pins are retained by bolts as seen in the photo. All bolts are in place. I do find that the pins aren't tight in their bores, I can move them laterally a little bit. Like the hole through the wall of the pin is a little larger than the part of the bolt that protrudes into it. All four pins move about the same distance.

I see no evidence that the pin is contacting the cylinder wall.

I don't know what brand pistons they are, evidently older than the type with the circlip retainers.

I'm told that the '21 Dodge should have cast iron as original equipment. I guess someone has been inside this one before. If I was looking for a project, I'd pull the head, pistons, etc. to renew them.

I'm ready to put the pan back up, so I should be able to start up in a day or two and listen for any progress.

Thank your Australian correspondent and send him my best regards. The week I spent there on R&R was almost worth my time in Viet Nam."

[oldcar]

Hi John & Greg

With aluminium pistons in the Dodge motor the Bolt locates and holds the pin in position. The Pins should be a tight push fit in the piston. The usual thing is to immerse the piston in hot (almost boiling) water to expand it so the pins can be fitted. Once the pistons cool down the pin should be impossible to move. All movement should be in the bronze bushed small end of the con rod. If you have free movement in the piston when cold they will probably rattle when the motor warms up.This is more critical with an aluminium piston as the expansion is greater than with a cast iron one. If you have a tapping noise when the motor is cold but this tends goes away as the motor warms up it is probably piston slap caused by excessive piston to cylinder clearance. Expansion of the piston taking up the excess clearance, an other possible source of your noise is excessive clearance in between the top of the rings and the ring land (groove)

As an aside here is a photo of a piston fitted with a half penny pin end plug. Date on the coin is 1923.

oldcar

Edited October 3, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Roger Zimmermann]

The explanation from oldcar is making sense; maybe it's time to take the pistons out of this engine!

[unimogjohn]

Bernie and Roger, thanks for the information. I am sure that if Greg still hears the knock the pistons will be dropped. Really a neat picture of the "Penny stopper".

And here is Greg's report from the weekend. It is Monday, October 3rd.

"He's right. Ol Trimacar says that the onset of this cool weather is a de-motivator. Roger that. Even though the Dodge is coming back together, ain't no way I'm going to lay under in the raw weather we've had today. It's going to be a long winter.

So, to get aclimated to working in the shop again, I carried the Avanti hood down to the paint room and I've begun stripping paint. Using paste type paint remover, a couple applications will soften the black lacquer and the red primer. I couldn't find my Bondo squeeges, so I cut a formica paint scraper. Didn't want to use a steel blade that might gouge the fiberglass.

I've removed down to the Featherfill layer sprayed on to level the surfaces. Even though it has failed, it is still very difficult to get rid of without block sanding it. I'm toying with the idea of sending the hood out for media blasting.

I did manage to get the Dodge oil pan back in place with a few bolts holding it up."

[unimogjohn]

Bernie and Roger, your advice is being heeded.

It is Monday PM, late.

Here is Greg's decision on the 1921 Dodge engine. Remember, he is writing his report to his private list and not to the forum. I am on his private list and just hijacking for our thread. Of course Greg does not about it and reads it often.

Greg's report.

"Dodge: OK, so on the AACA forum site there is an international (Switzerland to Australia) conspiracy to get me to pull the pistons. Worldwide they want me to disable yet another car. So, tonight I got started. HAPPY NOW?

Head nuts, hose clamps, horn, vacuum tank, plumbing, everything that holds the cylinder head down. Now if I could just get the head to come loose. Stuck tight, I'll resort to jacking the head. Can't do it tonight, don't have any spare spark plugs (7/8" thread).

I'll find a couple at the flea market at Hershey to destroy. I'll make machinist jacks by knocking out the porcelains and threading them to take a bolt.

The spark plugs appear to be over the valves, so I'll make sure the valves are seated and run the bolts down until the head starts to lift.

Avanti: Meanwhile in the paint room, the depaint project continues.

All for now."

[Guest Corvanti]

at some point, please tell Mr. Cone that he is an inspiration to more folks than he will ever know...

[oldcar]

Hi Greg

Sorry, not my intention at all. It is just that in Australia where we do drive our cars (there is virtually no car show scene as in the US) we sometimes go over the top with our engine rebuilds. Some people do huge distances in their 1920s cars often a long way from anywhere so they HAVE to be right. If you are desperate for 7/8 gas Spark plugs I am sure that I could rustle up a set for you.

A Vintage Drivers Club member has them new off the shelf. He also has adaptors so you can fit any modern 14mm plug. That way you have access to a wide heat range. His e-mail is valentinob@optusnet.com.au.

oldcar

[Roger Zimmermann]

Greg, I'm really sorry about this conspiration. Fortunately for me, I'm far away enough from you to feel safe!

Another thinking, but you may have the answer: by using paint remover on polyester/fiberglas, are you not afraid that this product may find its way into pores, stay there and affect the new paint you will spray on that hood?

[unimogjohn]

Hey Roger, here is Greg's response to your question re the stripper. Glad that you asked it, I was wondering the same thing.

Greg's response. I noticed a question put to me in your forum concerning my paint removal. Please relay to Roger that in my experience I've been able to use the paint remover to soften the finish (it might take two or three applications) down to the lacquer primer. This I've been able to scrub off with lacquer thinner and Scotchbrite. No paint remover on the fiberglass.

This time I seem to have again screwed myself when I previously used the Featherfill to straighten up the body prior to prime and paint. It doesn't scrub off. It remains to be seen if I will have to sand it off or what.

Too bad Roger doesn't live close enough to help me out.

I'll be leaving in the morning for Hershey. You'll have to do without me for a few days!

GREG.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Thank you to Greg for the explanation. Sorry if I'm that far away and unable to help!

[Landman]

Bernie and Roger, your advice is being heeded.

It is Monday PM, late.

Here is Greg's decision on the 1921 Dodge engine. Remember, he is writing his report to his private list and not to the forum. I am on his private list and just hijacking for our thread. Of course Greg does not about it and reads it often.

Greg's report.

"Dodge: OK, so on the AACA forum site there is an international (Switzerland to Australia) conspiracy to get me to pull the pistons. Worldwide they want me to disable yet another car. So, tonight I got started. HAPPY NOW?

Head nuts, hose clamps, horn, vacuum tank, plumbing, everything that holds the cylinder head down. Now if I could just get the head to come loose. Stuck tight, I'll resort to jacking the head. Can't do it tonight, don't have any spare spark plugs (7/8" thread).

I'll find a couple at the flea market at Hershey to destroy. I'll make machinist jacks by knocking out the porcelains and threading them to take a bolt.

The spark plugs appear to be over the valves, so I'll make sure the valves are seated and run the bolts down until the head starts to lift.

Avanti: Meanwhile in the paint room, the depaint project continues.

All for now."

Would the head lift with the compression if you turned the engine over with the head bolts off? :confused:

[unimogjohn]

Pat, will pass on your suggestion re lifting the head with compression. Great idea.

It is Wednesday, Oct. 5th. Heading to Hershey early tomorrow morning. Have my list of wants in hand including a couple of lists from friends. Always good to have many eyes on those tables piled high with old parts.

Greg is off to Hershey this morning so we will not hear from him until next week. He always seems to find exactly what he is looking for. Me, not so much.

Here is Greg's report form last night.

"After work today I toyed with the idea of driving to Pennsylvania tonight to get a headstart on the Hershey swap meet. Then I sat down and before I knew it, that idea was out like a light.

So, then looking for something worthwhile to do I removed the trunk lid from old Avanti 5054 and brought it down to the shop for initial paint stripping. I do the inside of these panels first because they are such a pain.

The latest development on the Dodge: It's a good thing I've got people all over the world worrying for me. My buddy Temple called this morning. Evidently he was up all night trying to find a way to get that stuck cylinder head off the thing. His brilliant conclusion was for me to pull the rods and pistons out the bottom of the engine, take a length of wood and a floor jack and shove it from underneath.

Great idea! Tried it during lunch. Dropped the pan, loosened that #4 rod cap and guess what?! The piston is too long to come out the bottom. Rats!

Talked to Rob tonight and told him about the problem and my return to Plan A with the threaded spark plug bodies to jack the thing loose. He said to stop. He already had some made up. They even have eye bolts for use with an engine hoist. It's good to have friends with the same affliction.

I'll be off the air for a few days. It use to be a week of smelling the chocolate. I guess the EPA put a stop to that."

=

[unimogjohn]

Many of you know that I know the original owner's name of the 1923 McLaughlin Buick from the 1925 driver's license found behind a door panel. For the past four years I have been attempting to contact someone in the family that knew Ethel Edith Hickmott. We know that she died in 1964 and is buried in Maidstone, Kent, UK.

Following a lead I emailed a person in the UK that had contacted the church about the Hickmott family, where she lived and was buried. The church in turn contacted a relative in the US for information, and that person put the note on his family website. My story was on the web site, and by luck I visited the site to update the car's history with new pictures. The note, from 2001 had an email address. Would it still be good after ten years? So I took a chance and wrote an email to him. I was truly surprised when I received this email this morning.

Maybe in the near future I will know more about Ethel Edith Hickmott (Nicknamed Ettie) and maybe even a picture or two. That would put an end to my search.

Here is what I received.

"Thank you for your e mail and the pictures. I am sorry for the delay in replying but I was waiting for my Mother to come over for Sunday lunch to ask her about the car. My Mother will be 94 in November but is still driving and lives by herself now about 5 miles away from where I live so I see her quite often. Anyway Mother remembers the car which she went in as a small child as she was often down at Longfield as her mother Mabel was a sister to Ethel who I always knew as Auntie Ettie.

As a small boy we used to go and see Aunt Ettie when she was living in a flat at Eastbourne with her sister Dorothy who I knew as Auntie Doll Doll who apart from being my Mother's aunt was also a best friend to my other Grandmother and that is how my parents met. Anyway Mother remembers the car not in a red colour but in a chocolate brown colour. Out of my Mother's 7 uncles only Uncle George drove- the others couldn't be bothered. This was Ethel's first car as it didn't have to be cranked up which ladies couldn't do so the self starter changed things. Of course at that time there was no driving tests!.

The car was probably purchased from the garage Rootes which was in Rochester- not too far away from Longfield. The car was not used that much- going up to Gravesend for shopping and the occasional visit to Birchington also in Kent to visit a couple who Mother thinks could have been related. There used to be one pump in the village. Mother doesn't remember the hood being up.

The car was kept in the stable block which at that time didn't have any horses although the carriages were still there as Mother used to play in them. It was quite a large stable block. Eventually Edith swapped the car for a Rolls which was known as Roly.

Mother is looking out for some pictures of the family which she has at home but she is not sure she has one of Edith although I know we have some old slides of Edith and Dorothy on the seafront at Eastbourne. There certainly is a picture which has Edith's Mother (my great grandmother)in it with Uncle Bert and Aunt Dodo. We will see what we can find and scan for you.

I hope I have been able to add to your knowledge about the car and it is wonderful that it still exists.

With all good wishes.

Edited October 5, 2011 by unimogjohn (see edit history)