A question about date codes and casting/part numbers

[junkyardjeff]

As one who puts any parts I can find on my cars to get them going when they break I dont do correct restorations,I know the muscle car and tri 5 chevy owners go nuts over correct date codes and casting numbers but is it the same for other 50s on back vehicles. Since I doubt most old cars at the shows have all the parts they came out of the factory with is that a factor when judging them,since I have never been around any big shows with all original vehicles I was wondering if judges have the time to inspect all this or just a basic knowledge of whats its supposed to look like count for judging. I hope this is not a stupid question but kind of always wanted to know and I hope I am not a pain in the you know what for asking.

[DizzyDale]

Hey JJ,Date codes and casting numbers are left for individual marque clubs to sweat over.diz:)

[junkyardjeff]

I could imagine checking all that stuff at a large AACA type show would have taken forever and a bunch of judges.

[Shop Rat]

Here's an idea for you, if you make it to Hershey, go to the Judging School. It is free and you will get a copy of the 2009 Judging Guidelines book. I think you would find it very interesting.

[junkyardjeff]

I will consider it if I make it over there and does the AACA have just a display only class,I am in the VCCA and I think they do and thats where I would put my 37 if I were to attend one of their big shows. A display only class would work for those cars that are almost all original that have maybe a wrong motor or painted a non factory color and they could get those people to participate and maybe nudge them in putting them back to factory specs so they can put them in the judged class in the future.

[MCHinson]

DPC is designed to do what you are talking about. Here is the description of DPC from the Judging Manual.

DRIVER PARTICIPATION CLASS (DPC)

The AACA Board of Directors in 2000

established DPC to promote the showing

and driving of antique vehicles which are

not intended by their owners to be show

vehicles and are described as "Drivers."

This class is for vehicles 25 years of age or

older that have not obtained a national first

prize. (A vehicle with national awards is

eligible for DPC only if the awards - other

than 2nd or 3rd Junior - are turned into

AACA Headquarters.) This is a non-competitive

class and will not be point judged,

but vehicles will be certified upon passing

a visual inspection. The shaded areas

on the DPC evaluation form must be

completed by the vehicle owner before

the vehicle can be certified. Certification

will be based on vehicle components that

have the same appearance as when the

vehicle was manufactured and the overall

condition of the vehicle in general appears

acceptable. The exterior/ interior/engine/

chassis components must appear period

correct per the original manufacturer. The

following are exceptions that will not disqualify

the vehicle: seat belts, seat coverings,

turn signals, stop lights, sealed

beam/halogen headlights, radial tires,

alloy wheels of the same era and/or same

vehicle manufacturer, radio upgrades,

electrical upgrades, brake upgrades (bolt

on), steering upgrades (bolt on), air conditioning,

overdrive system and altered

exhausts. A DPC badge will be issued

to each vehicle upon certification and a

participation award will be given at certification

and at each subsequent meet for

attendance. After five participation awards

are received, the accompanying participation

cards should be completed and mailed

to AACA Headquarters. A mounting board

will be mailed from AACA Headquarters

after confirmation of the five participation

awards. No vehicle will be re-certified if it

is not displaying the DPC badge. A DPC

certified vehicle that is significantly modified

will lose its’ DPC certification. DPC certification

remains with the vehicle even if there

is a change of ownership. (see Attachment

6 - DPC Evaluation Form - page 49)

[Shop Rat]

I hope that you are able to come to Hershey. There is nothing like it.

Print off a copy of the 2009 printable list if you do get to go and with that in hand you can meet the folks listed on it that you have met here.

[junkyardjeff]

I think mine are too modified for the DPC class so that counts me out and if its the same with the VCCA then I wont be able to show my 37 and it will be in the spectator parking.

[junkyardjeff]

It looks like a stock 37 but lowered about 4 inches all the way around,the only serious modification I done to it was add a T-5 trans behind the 235 and put in a modern rear end. I adapted the original E brake handle to the side of the trans and welded a original shifter to the T-5 shifter so the interior looks original except for the material that will get changed soon,someone would have to do some looking under it to find that and made the 235 to look like a 216 and for wheels it has reproduction artillery rims.

[Shop Rat]

From the sound of it your vehicles is way too modified to go onto and AACA showfield even as a DPC car. The class is for slightly modified vehicles. Things like A/C, electric starters, different interiors, non-authentic color etc.

Your vehicles would fit in better at a mixed show, street rod or modified show.

But that still doesn't stop you from driving the vehicle you love to an AACA show to see what others have done with their vehicles. There is room for all hobbiest, just not at all shows. By the same token I wouldn't take a fully restored antique car to a street rod show.

[junkyardjeff]

It seems like the hotrodders are more accepting of the people with stock vehicles then restorers are to those with modified vehicles,from what I have seen one can take a stocker to a show with modifieds and no trouble. My 65 country squire is the most stock of all the vehicles as its just lowered with wheels and everything else is the way it left the factory but the rest of the fleet have different motors.

[Restorer32]

Yep, that's us. We are not very accepting at all of modified vehicles, just like the Metropolitan Museum of Art is not accepting of paint by numbers and stamp collectors are not accepting of those who collect movie posters. Do what you want with your cars, you have that right, but if you want to play in our sandbox you have to follow our rules. Don't know how we can make it any simpler for you. We have invited you to Hershey, come and enjoy, who knows, you might become enthralled with restoration to original and one day we might see one of your cars on the show field.

[Shop Rat]

It's like any other style of showing, be it horses, dogs, billy goats or ferrets. If someone wants to participate they must have what is being shown. You can't win at a dog show with a Percheron draft horse.

The AACA is for vehicles as they came from the factory, certified racecars, commercial vehicles, fire trucks, HPOF, DPC, etc. . If what someone has does not fit into the classes we have then they have to find a show that does have a class for them. They can't expect us to change what we are about so that they can show their vehicle at our shows.

I think people with street rods, modifieds, etc. are more accepting of original vehicles because those, unless they build a kit car, are where they started. Even if it was just a chassis and they went from there. Our vehicles did not start as street rods etc. And we hate to see wonderful, good condition original vehicles chopped up into a street rod or modified. Especially if it is poorly done. :mad:

[junkyardjeff]

If most of the pre 50s vehicles were able to cruise at highway speeds I would not be modifying them,I dont own a trailer so I have to drive them so them must be able to cruise at least at 65 and I dont want to get run over,I do like taking the back roads but I dont want to have to take them if you get my drift. I know they were built for a different time when no one was in a hurry and the roads were not as good but if most manufactures would of put overdrives in them I would leave them alone,I thought of putting a different set of gears in my 37 but I put in a T-5,modern rear end and upgraded the brakes cheaper then what the parts would of cost to redo the stock rear end.

[junkyardjeff]

I am working on a truck for towing purposes and thinking about buying a trailer so maybe one day I might leave one alone if I can transport it if I want to go to a show far away,I am planning on attending Hershey next year and maybe you guys might rub off on me so we will see what happens.

[Guest quadfins]

It seems like the hotrodders are more accepting of the people with stock vehicles then restorers are to those with modified vehicles,from what I have seen one can take a stocker to a show with modifieds and no trouble. My 65 country squire is the most stock of all the vehicles as its just lowered with wheels and everything else is the way it left the factory but the rest of the fleet have different motors.

Maybe it's no trouble parking your factory stock car next to them, but I've certainly never seen them express much interest in where I obtained my correct hose clamps, how I managed to get my 48 year old cruise control to work, or what color my power steering bracket should be. And I don't recall any "stockers" winning in "participants choice" shows, when there are a number of chromed muscle cars entered - not enough chrome on the inner fenders, I guess, and no appreciation for the research necessary to identify and locate that elusive part.

It makes me shudder when I see the resto-mod Mustangs out there. Is my '66 Fastback the only one left without a roll cage and 427??? I can see the rodders sharpening their knives as they look at it.

There are enough diverse events to satisfy any number of preferences. Some people like NASCAR, some like INDY. Some like country, some like classical. Some like paper, some like plastic. None has to be right for everyone. Just don't go to a baseball game and then gripe when they don't kick any field goals. Enjoy each game for it's own set of rules. AACA is what it is for a reason.

[junkyardjeff]

What I dislike about some shows are brand new cars winning the awards,with stock and modified vehicles the owners have taken a vehicle that was not in good shape and brought it back to life and then someone takes a new car in that did nothing but wax it and win a award for just buying a new car. I would have a interest in where you got your correct hose clamps since my modified 37 chevy p/u has the correct radiator hoses and clamps and other correct parts even though it has had some modifications.

Maybe it's no trouble parking your factory stock car next to them, but I've certainly never seen them express much interest in where I obtained my correct hose clamps, how I managed to get my 48 year old cruise control to work, or what color my power steering bracket should be. And I don't recall any "stockers" winning in "participants choice" shows, when there are a number of chromed muscle cars entered - not enough chrome on the inner fenders, I guess, and no appreciation for the research necessary to identify and locate that elusive part.

It makes me shudder when I see the resto-mod Mustangs out there. Is my '66 Fastback the only one left without a roll cage and 427??? I can see the rodders sharpening their knives as they look at it.

There are enough diverse events to satisfy any number of preferences. Some people like NASCAR, some like INDY. Some like country, some like classical. Some like paper, some like plastic. None has to be right for everyone. Just don't go to a baseball game and then gripe when they don't kick any field goals. Enjoy each game for it's own set of rules. AACA is what it is for a reason.

[Guest quadfins]

And I agree with you about new cars at shows. I call them "Store Bought". Might as well stroll through the dealer lot.

I realize that rodders are proud of their work, and many of them are very well executed. I'd rather see one rodded than crushed, but not one that could be restored. To me it is a slap at the time period and history that a given car represents. Of course, I am a historian, so I admit to being biased...

To each his own, apples and oranges, etc, etc, etc.....

[junkyardjeff]

I like original vehicles but since they are not designed for the way I would like I kind of make them do it,I dont do anything that cant be reversed so if anyone after me wants to put them back original they can. I dont like the cut up POS ratrods and leave my stock bodied and mainly with just driveline and suspension modifications for higher speeds and a better ride,you guys will like this that I have decided to put a more original motor back in my 55 Ford. I lowered it but its a little too low so it will come back up some and I am going to keep the disc brakes and modern rear end but I am going to put a 292 in it with a little newer trans and to the untrained eye will look original but it will be a trans I can get serviced anywhere if the need would arrive. I appriciate it that some like to keep them original but its just not my thing right now and as I get older I might change,I need the late model motor I put in the 55 for my 65 galaxie so that gives me a excuse to find a Y block.

[Shop Rat]

.....There are enough diverse events to satisfy any number of preferences. Some people like NASCAR, some like INDY. Some like country, some like classical. Some like paper, some like plastic. None has to be right for everyone. Just don't go to a baseball game and then gripe when they don't kick any field goals. Enjoy each game for it's own set of rules. AACA is what it is for a reason.

I love the line I highlighted in red. Good one.

[junkyardjeff]

Dont be too hard on those who modify as they can be a good source for parts to keep your restored cars on the road,I sold all my extra parts to restorers and they were very happy to get them. You would not belive what was scrapped when the scrap prices went up a couple years ago,we had a junkyard that was also a scrap yard and could not believe all the old stuff that was being hauled in. Most of it was stuff that was sitting behind the garage but there were a few restoration projects that never got finished,there also was a restored chassis from a 37/38 chevy 1 1/2 ton truck with what looked to be a freshly rebuilt 216 in it that I know someone on here could of used. If it was not for someone who put a late model drivetrain in a 38 chevy panel my 37 would of been down for alot longer then it was and then when I was done with those parts it helped someone else and they did not get turned in to cheap chinese junk. Just remember some one who modifies can be your best friend when you need parts as thsoe parts dont grow on trees any more.

[GrayCav56]

I am a dyed in the wool AACA type guy with regards to originality. While I perservere to return (or maintain) my vehicles in a condition as close to that as delivered by the factory, I do not harbor any ill will towards the street rod/modified crowd. Some of those vehicles would not be around today had they not been rescued by someone with a vision of how they COULD be.

I do wish that most of those modifications could be reversed in the future if another caretaker would like to bring it back to showroom new. I have no beef with most restomod projects if they keep the original parts and don't hack up the bodywork and frame to make them all fit. Just understand that those types of vehicles have their own venues to show, and an AACA meet just ain't it.

I suppose my only other beef with the street rod crowd is putting Chevy engines in everything. Darn it, if it's a Plymouth, put a MOPAR block in her! If it is a 30 Ford Coupe, what's the matter with a flathead or a 289? Yeah, I know it's easier....but is easy all we are going for here?

OK, I'm off my soapbox.

[junkyardjeff]

Whether you are a rodder or a restorer we all need to stick togather and help each other as much as we can,with the municipalities zoning laws,the cash for clunker deals and the crusher bills some in government want to push through and the EPA wanting to close the smaller junkyards that have older vehicles we dont need to be bickering like children because our hobby is under assult. I must be a minority on here as I like original vehicles along with all the versions of hotrods and can talk old car talk with anyone.

[Shop Rat]

Dont be too hard on those who modify as they can be a good source for parts to keep your restored cars on the road.....Just remember some one who modifies can be your best friend when you need parts as thsoe parts dont grow on trees any more.

That is the truth for sure. We met a guy that lives south of us here in

W. Va. and he had fully restored a 1939 Dodge 2-door. Several years later he got bored with it and decided to modify it a bit to make it more cruise the highway and take on vacation friendly. We have many extra parts, including the restored engine he took out, for our 1939 Dodge Deluxe 4-door sedan.

We are not going to restore it back to orginal. It would cost too much to do that. So we will fix it up really nice, as close as we can to original, and enjoy it at open shows.

[Shop Rat]

.....I must be a minority on here as I like original vehicles along with all the versions of hotrods and can talk old car talk with anyone.

You only feel like that because we don't openly talk about street rods etc. here. It is not permitted by the AACA.

But trust me, there are folks here that have street rods, modifieds etc. But you won't see them talk about them in any detail here or post photos of them here.

You can invite folks here that are also interested in those types of vehicles to send you a PM or an e-mail so that you can talk off of the forums about them.

[junkyardjeff]

If you guys think hotrodders are destroying good vehicles alot are still being destroyed in accidents,someone on the HAMB is posting pics of vintage vehicles in the salvage auctions titled warning these pictures will make a grown man cry and yes it will. They are still getting hit and trees falling on them and fires are destroying them and alot are still repairable.

[junkyardjeff]

Since I only own modified vehicles at this time maybe this is not the place for me,I do think we need to coexist togather as we can help each other and to keep the hobby from being destroyed by those in government who seem to have a hatred for old cars.

You only feel like that because we don't openly talk about street rods etc. here. It is not permitted by the AACA.

But trust me, there are folks here that have street rods, modifieds etc. But you won't see them talk about them in any detail here or post photos of them here.

You can invite folks here that are also interested in those types of vehicles to send you a PM or an e-mail so that you can talk off of the forums about them.

[Shop Rat]

Since I only own modified vehicles at this time maybe this is not the place for me,I do think we need to coexist togather as we can help each other and to keep the hobby from being destroyed by those in government who seem to have a hatred for old cars.

We do co-exist nicely in the outside world for the most part. True, some don't like hot rods, street rods, period. That is their personal taste and right to do so.

But many of us have no problem with someone taking an antique vehicle and saving it from the crusher in any way someone sees fit and can afford.

But it is almost unheard of for a true, dyed-in-the-wool antique vehicle person to be okay with a nice vehicle being turned into a hot rod/street rod/modified. We just aren't wired that way, especially if the person does things that can't be undone later. It might be their right to do it. but people don't have to like what has been done.

The AACA is a great source of help and information about correct parts etc.

[Guest quadfins]

I would also add another opinion, which I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with... I would say that any older car on the road, regardless of how modified or "rodded", is of greater service to our hobby than a perfectly restored example that never sees the road.

As a hobby, we need good public relations, and continuing (even growing) interest in what we do. When the public gets a chance to see an "old car", they might get interested, even inspired. Who knows, they might even decide to buy one themselves. When legislation is proposed that might be detrimental to the hobby, they probably don't really think about us. I don't believe that there is a vast conspiracy out there to exterminate collector cars. But even the best-intentioned legislators may not be thinking of how those laws affect us. If they see classic cars, they know we exist, and, I hope, have a positive impression. So the important thing for us is to get out and be seen.

On the other hand, one may have a perfectly restored, factory correct example of car X. But it is hidden in a garage, delivered to a given show in a trailer, displayed for a few short hours (in front of the already-converted choir), and then hauled back into the trailer until the next trophy-collecting opportunity. How does the general public get to see or appreciate such an marvel of perfection?

Yes, the owner gets another trophy, and an ego boost, but what good does it do for the classic car hobby as a whole? I would, therefore, contend that any collector car, regardless of modifications, that is driven in public to a show, cruise-in, or the shopping mall, does more good for all of us than the flawless trailer queens that we have such reverence for. I am not saying that it is practical to drive the Duisenberg every day, but, really, which one generates more smiles - the trailered artifact, or the modified driver? I am fortunate that neither of my older cars is so valuable that I dare not drive it or park in public. I ENJOY showing them off at every gas station and parking lot. I'll take the smiles, honks, and waves any time over another cheap trophy on the shelf. I plan to enter my 61 Cadillac in the AGNM at New Bern next May. I KNOW it will not place, when up against the museum-cars that will be trailered in, and with the 5-point rule. (remember the related thread, a couple of seasons ago???) But I plan to enjoy the drive there and back, and I think that I'll be doing the hobby some good, by generating positive public opinion with every car that passes me with a kids' face pressed against the window.

So regardless of what modifications you might have done to your car, as long as you drive it, I won't fuss. AACA is all about original appearance, which I also revere. It is not proper or correct for anyone else to come in and criticize the guidelines that THIS club is based upon. They don't have to like them, or follow them, but they should have enough respect to let us enjoy our cars the way we do.

So, the bottom line is, get that car on the road a d drive it, enjoy it, andshow the public that it is fun, informative, and historic to preserve these rolling works of art.

Edited September 30, 2009 by quadfins (see edit history)

[junkyardjeff]

Even though I do slightly modify my vehicles I do not like seeing a nice original cut up,most of the ones I get are incomplete,rough or have blown motors or sat for many years and I use what I can find cheap to get them on the road again. I have left a couple alone and those were mainly the mid 50s olds I had since they would cruise all day at 80 so there was no sense in changing them,I can respect that the AACA is for completely original vehicles just like I believe the boys scouts should not have to accept girls and the girl scouts should not have to accept boys and stuff like that.

[Guest quadfins]

Some of these vehicles are ultra rare, cost a fortune to restore, just aren't safe speed wise for the road, parts are unobtainable, etc. But they sure are a pleasure to see when brought to a show, and I thank those with deep pockets that restore and show them. This is a big hobby with room for all including keeping the AACA's tradition of factory stock.

Oh, I agree with you on all these points. But wow!, when that '29 Cadillac drove to Gettysburg last May, even in the rain, was I impressed. That's heroics, and deserves bonus points. Also, the Model A that drove from, was it Maryland, to Charlotte, in 2008. These guys are super, but I don't expect that from everyone.

And just think of the positive PR they generated everywhere they went!!!

I guess my beef is with the newer classes, like my own, in which the cars are perfectly capable of driving to meets, but the owners are too afraid of getting a dustball or blade of grass on the trophy-generator. Then, it's the Ten-Point Rule that burns the rest of us. How many trailers were not opened at Charlotte last year, or Gettysburg this year, because of rain or mud? OK, so the 1908 Maxwell SHOULD be pampered, but what about the 1968 Chevy?

Maybe we need a Trailered-Only class, like the MCA?

And I'll be at New Bern, and Blacksburg, to see them all, trailered and driven.

[junkyardjeff]

Even though I now have a overdrive trans in my 37 chevy p/u there is no way I could drive it a long distance due to the small cab,I could drive it about a 150 but no more so I can see trailering some espcecially the 40s on back.

[Guest quadfins]

I don't know if "I have a problem" with the ten point rule so much as I think that it creates a problem that discourages some members from showing their cars.

But we went through all of this about two years ago. The archives have the details. I don't care to go through it all again, as I feel that it would be hijacking this thread away from its original purpose.

At Charlotte (2008), we drove through the sea of trailers in the parking lot, to the sparsely-populated show field. The list of registered cars was substantially longer than the list of cars-on-the-field. All that time, effort, and money spent bringing them there! But unwilling to let them get wet or dirty. What should one deduce from this?

Jim Eccleston

1961 Coupe de Ville

AACA Senior & Preservation

CLC Senior

driven to every show

[GrayCav56]

I remember when I won my First Junior at Greensburg in 2005. I drove the car from York to my brothers house in Johnstown, did some detailing, then drove early the next morning to Greensburg. Then the heavens erupted! Monsoon city!

Those poor judges had it rough that day, let me tell you. After my car was judged I huddled with a few wonderful folks inside one of the buildings talking about Edsels while the team continued their work.

I visited but did not show the car in Gettysburg recently, but I think the team did a darn good job adjusting to all the rain and soggy conditions. Yes, some folks had to move and some others had to spend quite some time cleaning the mud out, but overall the organizers put on a crackerjack effort.

Edited October 3, 2009 by GrayCav56
Uh, forgot where my brother lived??? (see edit history)

[junkyardjeff]

You dont have to worry about hyjacking this thread as its been all over the place and the question was answered on the second or third post so go on.

[Guest quadfins]

I visited but did not show the car in Gettysburg recently, but I think the team did a darn good job adjusting to all the rain and soggy conditions. Yes, some folks had to move and some others had to spend quite some time cleaning the mud out, but overall the organizers put on a crackerjack effort.

Absolutely! On this forum, there was a discussion about why some certain owners chose not to show at Gettysburg, even though the cars were there. They were afraid of mud and grass getting on their cars between the trailer and the parking spot.

Yes, there were some muddy and soggy spots. But the alternative field arrangements seemed to work fine.

I was one of the first to park on the field. It was no problem at 7:00 in the morning, and only got better as the day went on. Reading the comments, I wondered if the complainers were at the same Gettysburg meet that I was.

Fond memories!!!

[junkyardjeff]

If someone spends that much time on a frame that wont hardly ever be seen is spending way too much time in the garage and must be retired,single or trying to stay away from the wife. I doubt I have that much time on the complete vehicle.

If you spend 1,200 hours on restoring a chassis doing a frame up, why would you want to drive it in the rain?

[Guest quadfins]

Ron, please don't take my opinion personally. I will state again that I do not require anyone, yourself included, to accept it as their own. You have your reasons, which I accept. Anyone who saw that Plymouth at Gettysburg, with the shredded side, would hesitate to risk a classic car on the road. I acquired 3 or 4 more stone chips. That is my choice. Others choose differently.

I suppose that my objection is not so much about trailered cars in general, but when they are competing with driven cars, with the Ten-Point Rule. Obviously, a driven car is going to degrade - mud and grass on the undercarriage, road tar, stone chips, fluid leaks, bugs-in-the-grille, etc... So when the other car rolls out of the trailer for its five hours in the sun and does not lose points for the battle scars, then the driven car is denied a Junior or Senior award, when it would otherwise have qualified on the points scale. It does not take too many times of this happening to discourage an owner, who then gives up trying. I know several owners who no longer show their beautiful cars, because they have been burned too many times.

And I think that is a pity.

This branch of this thread bloomed when I stated that I would rather see a somewhat modified car driven on the road, than a pristine car hidden in a garage or trailer. I also contended that a driven car seen by the public creates better public relations for our hobby than one that never gets out but a few hours a year. I felt that junkyardjeff was being criticised for his modifications, and I wrote my opinion.

As for the complainers, I don't write down names and dates. I'm too busy cleaning the mud and grass off of my undercarriage. I do distinctly remember, however, posters on this forum stating why they did not take their cars out, and others complaining about the grass field (and resulting mud) at Gettysburg(as if the region had conspired to arrange the rain and mud). Last Spring, there were inquiries about the field at Charlotte, whether grass or paved, and there are plenty of opinions about the famous mud at Hershey. Why would this matter, unless these owners feared the dirt.

When I was a kid, the neighbor girl was "allergic to dirt" (or so her mother said). I always thought what a pity it was that she was not allowed out to play. In a way, I feel the same way about cars.

Your opinion may vary. I am fine with that.

I also perceive, judging by your avatar, that you don't necessarily fear mud and water, either. I would much rather see your car in a pond, than in a museum. For most owners, that would be an insult...

Keeping a sense of humor.

Your friend in fins,

Jim

[MCHinson]

Quadfins,

I remember the rain at Charlotte and the mud at Gettysburg. Some people did leave their cars in the trailers at both, more at Charlotte than at Gettysburg. I don't understand it, but to each his own.

I trailer my car because it is not practical to take the car, supplies, luggage and family too far in a 1929 Model A Ford Phaeton. My 1929 Ford Phaeton is a Senior Grand National winner. I took it out for preservations awards at both Charlotte and at Gettysburg. Yes, it got wet and yes it got muddy. I have also taken it on the Sentimental Tour in 2008 and will be taking it on the Vintage Tour later this month.

I am sure that getting ready to try for the Repeat Senior Grand National in New Bern next year will take a lot of hours of work to reverse the wear and tear of the tours and other driving that this Senior Grand National car has endured. I might not enjoy that work, but the driving has been fun. It got wet and muddy when it was new in 1929 and I am going to keep driving it.

[junkyardjeff]

I would hate to pay for a 3 to 5 thousand plus hour restoration,even if I had the money to do one I would be afraid to drive it so mine are not quite that nice.