nickelroadster Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I took my 1915 Oldsmobile model 42 out of winter storage to go on a short, local HCCA tour this weekend. Having done all the little maintenence items I decided to fill up with petrol. I backed out of my driveway and went down the street in second gear. After about a block it seemed like the engine was no longer connected to the drivetrain. I thought maybe the clutch had hung up on something. After laboriously pushing the car two blocks back to the house and than using a comealong to bring it up my steep driveway I set about checking out the clutch and transmission, and ujoint. No problem with any of this. It seems as though nothing was getting through the rear end. Bear in mind that there was no noise whatsoever. No loud metallic crunching sounds or anything. Whatever it was, it was in the rear end and I had to remove the thing and take a look. Harryj, who is neck deep in all his own projects, evidently couldn't resist such a good time and so he came over to help. The rear ends in these cars have no inspection plate so you have to take the whole driveline, springs and all down. Harryj came up with a marvelous hub puller which he may have to patent. they were very tight as I had just torqued them down real well.After getting the rear end down and looking at it , it seems that the pinion was not really in contact with the ring gear. after splitting the rear end open and looking around a bit, it seems as if at some time in its life the car recieved a very questionable repair. their were seven spacer washers in between the axle thrust bearing and the roller bearings. three that looked as if they were cut out of an old oil can with tin snips, two with larger holes that had been ground to fit around the edges, and two that looked original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 It seems as if the two washers with the large holes jumped on to the roller bearing race and took the pinion gear out of contact with the ring gear.It astounds me that this could happen with no gnashing of gears and tearing of metal. Not even any fine metal shavings. Now to fix the thing. there is no adjustment for the ring gear cluster other than by putting some shims in between the thrust and the roller bearing. The only way to measure backlash and clearence is to try something and then see what it feels like when we put it together. There is an adjustment for the pinion but no way to measure anything. Have any of you folks worked on older rearends such as this? Any suggestions about how to set up would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 My "Fifteenth Edition" Dykes has an illustration and 3 pages of instructions for a Oldsmobile model "47" rear axle that looks similar to yours. I you don't have or can't find a copy I could scan and email them to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 Thanks Tinindian. I already have the Dykes manual. It is similar to the model 47 in layout but does not have the inspection covers and adjustments for the thrust bearings on either side of the two roller bearings. This means it is rather hard to adjust even if I know how much clearence is needed for the gears and how much backlash between the pinion and ring gear. The only way I have come up with is to assemble the driveshaft (torque tube) to the left half of the case and just put shims in (better ones than were there) until I get a backlash of say 20 thousandths between the pinion and ring gear and then take the torque tube off and put the right side on. I would then shim the right side until I had a small clearence between the roller races (which are attached to the ring gear cluster)and the thrust bearings. With no thrust bearing adjustment this is the only way I can think of doing it. I don't know what my clearences and backlash really ought to be. I'm thinking that anything I come up with is probably better then what they did at the time. The Dykes from the later twenties is pretty detailed whereas the one from the teens has a lot less to say about it. Still looking for comments and suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J.Heizmann Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 nickelroadster...Might be worth your while to check your AACA Library & Research Center.We retain a huge amount of original shop manuals, tech data, and so on. Cannot guarantee any successes however highly recommend you check it out with Chris Ritter critter@aacalibrary.org or 717-534-2082.Also try a research request form. In the gold header bar click on Resources then AACA Library for self explanatory procedures.Out of curiosity I just checked the On-Line Catalogue on the Library web site. Typed in Keyword "Oldsmobile 1915" in "subject". Listed are "Collection of Oldsmobile Clippings and Photos", various sizes. Who knows what might be there?Regards,Peter J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Nickelroadster, I would also consult the Detroit Public, the Philadelphia Public and The Prelinger Archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Nickelroadster, Your rear end looks like a Mott split rear end like my 1913 Model 31 Buick. You might try some research in the same era Buicks as they were pretty well documented. My dad & I replaced an axle several years ago and received advice to run brown grocery bag paper through the ring and pinion to check for uniform compression patterns at the center of the gear after adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Thanks Mark and Harryj. The rear end and axle combo is a Weston-Mott unit. I believe I have pretty well chased down what I need to do with it. The tip about using brown bag paper to check the contact pattern is interesting. I had planned to use white lubriplate grease to do the same thing. I can always do both. I have machined a selection of various sizes of shim washers and will try to put it back together this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Anupdate on my rearend. It appears that two things have happened. The large, home made spacers that are shown previously over the roller bearing race seem to have rode up and opened the pinion to ring gear clearance and then the jerk that resulted caused the 5/16" square key to shear right down the middle leaving the pinion to turn on the driveshaft. This seems to have happened fairly rapidly as there was no unusual wear on the gears themselves. It still seems to be a bit unusual to have a rearend failure such as this with no damage to anything except the square key. I just fit some shims in to give about 18 to 20 thousandths backlash. I used brown kraft paper as Mr. Shaw suggested which worked quite well and carefully filed a new key to fit the pinion. I'm sure the new key is a bit harder than the 1915 one and I suspect will last a little longer.all in all, a very inexpensive repair that took many hours to do. One dollar for the 5/16" square key, some new nuts and bolts, and some paint. As long as I had it apart I was going to clean it up and paint it. As long as I was going to clean it , it was just as easy to strip it. I ended up completely taking the brakes apart, cleaning many years of accumulated oil, grease and dirt from the brake linings and sandblasting and painting everything. The brakes work much better and the rearend doesn't even leak anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Plymouthy Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 just how did a Rolls term get associated with working on an Olds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 Plmouthy,The Rolls term came about when I described my situation to Harryj whereupon he said that I was afflicted with a "failure to proceed". Simple as that. If you were expecting an answer like "I had a collection of fifty three pre 1930 Rollses" well I'm sorry to disappoint you. On second thought I'm rather chagrinned that this is not the case myself. The term "a failure to proceed" just fit the situation well whether or not it applied to a Rolls. At the moment I am proceeding at will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Plymouthy Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 It is very seldom you hear this expression..only the Brits could come up with something like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 The man in the green shirt looks like he might be holding a drill bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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