Guest EDBS0 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: F14CRAZY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steakneggs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is also something exciting about things that are German that American engineering can't duplicate. Steak </div></div> Corvette ZR1? </div></div>The only one that would not be torture to drive for a year. The rest are junk and juded so by the marketplace :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 American cars have improved much since the eighties. And I would rather drive an American car now. I'm also done with mystique-mobiles that are undriveable in the winter and mid-summer and have to be constantly tuned and protected. But those cars increase in value if that's what you want. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89ReattaKid Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I just dont think there old enough yet.If you consider what most people call collectables there are cars older than the 1980's because 80's cars were the foreground for alot technology we have standard now ABS Air bags Fuel injection etc.cars older than the 80's are very diffrent larger carburated and even rarer.I Also think it has alot to do with GM sweaping these cars and there other "special venture" projects of this era under the rug calling it an unsuccessful attempt because it didnt mean there sales expectatitions and pretending it didnt happen.So other than us there really isnt any knowledge about these cars that came to pass other than the people who drive them or apperciate cars of this era.I think in probably 5-10 years you will see more collectability for these cars because there will be more diffrences than current production cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 My point is I don't see much more evolution in automotve design. They will not return to rear-drive or carbs or rear engine. The transverse layout is the most efficient power transfer and room-saving of any design so far. We will probably see more tiny hatchbacks and fewer coupes. It really depends on energy prices which no one has been able to predict despite pointy-headed economists tripping over each other to be out front of it. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 FWD being more efficient than RWD is very, very debatable, and the GM Zeta platform gives some hope to modern RWD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlabree Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Especialy if the drive train is divided with the transmission mounted in the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TommyH Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 63viking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Especialy if the drive train is divided with the transmission mounted in the rear.</div></div>I think it was Alfa Romao that produced a car with a rear-mounted transmission. It was on Top Gear for one of those $1000 max races they have every once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlabree Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Just look at any newer Corvette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Transverse mounted front-drive arrangements keep the rotation in the same axis. No power-robbing 90 degree turns. With the soon-coming 60 hp standard every trick helps. The same thing could be done with rear-drive but cabin space would be an issue. Front engine, front-drive is here to stay. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 but steak, there are 90 degree turns... FWD versus RWD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Though I'm probably a product of my times (grew-up and came of age in the eighties), I've had a fairly large number of rear wheel drive vehicles... and yeah, the driving dynamics of being able to kick the tail out with some throttle is fun... lots of fun actually... for the everyday driver piloting his car down a superslab where such dynamics are meaningless, the packaging efficiency and inherent stability in the wet makes front wheel drive the way to go for non-"ultra performance" vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 From the perspective of sitting inside the car I agree. But from a mechanics point of view I hate front wheel drive cars. Just seems like anything I do is harder on one of them. There is not enough room under the hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CL_Reatta Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Ha Phil... your picture and statement is very true...but um saying that no FWD car will never become a classic is a bit of a outlandish statement: Cadillac Alante.... FWD Austin Mini..... FWD But saying that american cars have no "mystique" and german cars do.... that is quite an insult my friend..... I see ALOT more corvettes being drooled over than a CL class Mercedes.... (I am a valet parker... and get a chance to park many many different classes of car, those mercedes are not cars, they are nothing but lawer mobiles, that have no design of actually doing anything other than look and sound cool) Germans are known for quality, yes... and they make some damn good cars, but if you want performance and "mystique" you stick with GM and Ford... well and Chrysler to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EDBS0 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 In a race you wouldn't even see their tail lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Mystique is not the same as lust. Mystique has a lot to do with mystery. And Americans cannot possess the mystique of certain foreign cultures especially when they (the foreigners) only make premium automobiles. Corvettes are made by the same company that brought us Vegas and Chevettes. And General Motors might not survive this latest economic downturn because of their poor decisions. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89ReattaKid Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 but FWD RWD has nothing to do with the value.Its the people that love and support the car that do.The cadillac allante was FWD and its seller pretty good.. not great but better than most reatta's sadly.The delorian was a flop but the people that like them pay something dang good money for them.late 80's mercedes benz 560sl great example best blend of classic modernism and they still at times bring more than 20 thousand dollars.Point is people were brought up to forget the most the cars of this time because of there quirk use of 80's technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 The transaxle in the photo looks like it changes direction but does not. There is a chain in there that connects the torque converter to the trans that keeps it inline, like a motorcycle. Some use gears instead of chains, but it's still inline. It wouldn't make much sense to have to change direction twice. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steakneggs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mystique is not the same as lust. Mystique has a lot to do with mystery. And Americans cannot possess the mystique of certain foreign cultures especially when they (the foreigners) only make premium automobiles. Corvettes are made by the same company that brought us Vegas and Chevettes. And General Motors might not survive this latest economic downturn because of their poor decisions. Steak </div></div>BMW offers 1.6L engines in their 3's and 2.0L engines in their 5's and to my knowledge, with cloth interiors.Mercedes offers vehicles such as the A class and to my knowledge you can specify cloth interiors as well.Chevrolet is not at all at a disadvantage to these "premium" brands because they brought Vegas and Chevettes. Germans also make sub-premium cars and have made premium cars that turned out to be garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EDBS0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In a race you wouldn't even see their tail lights. </div></div>unless you show up in like a CTS-V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 BMW brought us this...premium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 They bring a premium price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89ReattaKid Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 everyone company had humble beginings.ferrari almost got bought out by ford in the 60's and when enzo back out last minuet it fuel the creative spark behind the now very collectable GT-40.The best cars are usually the ones under the radar made my any company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CL_Reatta Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Now that is funny Phil, how much was the heated seat option?Now here is another example of great performance from Porsche, another great german performance company: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89REATTAJIM Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Don't know about performance, but it is a sharp looking tractor... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 That Isetta is looking more and more like a car of the future. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Now that the mystique issue has reached a satisfying level of controversy, let me move on to another damper for Reattas appreciating in value. The period when they were produced. My son just bought a '62 Comet 4-door sedan. He paid $2200 for it, what it costed new. It supposedly only has 15K miles on it. It's not that great of shape. It is about a no-frills car as the VWs I used to drive. It has fins. No seat belts. Metal head-splitting dash. Vac wipers. Doo-wap was the rage. It brings back memories to anyone my age who sees it. All I can remember about the Reatta years is that dufus Micheal Dukakis in the tank and MC Hammer. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EDBS0 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Wasn't there a wheelie bar and slick option available?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CL_Reatta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now that is funny Phil, how much was the heated seat option?Now here is another example of great performance from Porsche, another great german performance company: </div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EDBS0 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: F14CRAZY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EDBS0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In a race you wouldn't even see their tail lights. </div></div>unless you show up in like a CTS-V </div></div>BUT??? what if you have to turn or stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 CTS-V, from wikipedia...<span style="font-weight: bold">For 2009, the new Cadillac CTS-V is set to be released.[1] In order to be class competitive with the BMW M-Series, Audi S and RS-series, and Mercedes-Benz AMG lineup, the Cadillac must be able to produce more power than the previous generation's LS6 and LS2 V8s were able to generate.A supercharged 6.2 liter LSA V-8, based on the LS9 V-8 from the recently released Corvette ZR1, is the powerplant in the 2009 CTS-V. It produces 556 hp (415 kW) and 551 lb·ft (747 N·m) of torque.[1] [2] The LSA engine has a bore and stroke of 4.06 x 3.62 inches (103.25 x 92.0 mm).[1] There are two transmission choices, a six speed transmission with a short-throw shifter and dual clutch surface flywheel, or a paddle shift conventional (planetary gearing and torque converter-based) automatic six speed.[3] There will also be LED flash tracers to tell the driver when to shift. For the first time, Cadillac will offer 14-way adjustable performance Recaro seats which keeps the driver planted while cornering at high speeds. To improve the handling and comfort, the 2009 CTS-V uses Delphi Corporation’s MagneRide technology. The dampers, filled with magnetorheological fluid, are adjusted based on sensor readings that happen at 1ms intervals. The power-to-weight ratio of the CTS-V is similar to that of the Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG, which was labeled as the fastest sedan that Edmunds.com has ever tested.[4]The 2009 CTS-V has a base price of US$59,995, and will be available for purchase on November 1st 2008.[5]The CTS-V achieved a lap time of 7:59.32 at the famed Nürburgring Nordschleife. It is believed to be the fastest and the first documented time for a production sedan on factory tires.[6]Official 0-60 mph time for the 2nd-generation CTS-V is 3.9 seconds, while the quarter mile is run at 12.0 seconds at 118 mph (190 km/h).[7]</span> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 If you have any doubts, check the lap times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EDBS0 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 For the first time, Cadillac will offer 14-way adjustable performance Recaro seats My 1986 Mrecedes-Cosworth had factory Recaro seats that were very very good.About time the general did something right.It does sound impressive but turning and stopping????Looks like it got around .03 seconds a lap faster. OR NOT?7:56.50 155.60 km/h - Mercedes CLK DTM AMG, 582 PS/1678kg, Klaus Ludwig (AutoBild 02/06)7:52 --- 157.12 km/h - Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (sport auto 06/04)7:45* -- 159.48 km/h - Mercedes CLK 63 AMG Black Series, 507 PS/1760 kg (*mfr.) according to www.caranddriver.com/previews/12956/first-drive-mercedes-clk63-amg-black-series.html 7:40 --- 161.22 km/h -- Mercedes Benz CLK DTM AMG, 582 PS/1690 kg, Klaus Ludwig (AutoBild 03/06)7:36 --- 162.63 km/h - Mercedes SL 63 AMG Black Series www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/auto_-_produkte/hxcms_article_507838_13987.hbs 7:59.22 154.70 km/h - Cadillac CTS-V, 550 PS/??? kg, *mfr. http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/2008/05/2009_cts_v_blisters_nurburgrin.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89ReattaKid Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 not the first time cadillac will offer recaro seats.. there was one before it coinsidentally in the same era as the reatta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 The CLK should be compared against the ZR1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CL_Reatta Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 ^Yes, lets stick with comparing apples to apples... cant compare a pair of designer jeans with a pair of name brand jogging sweats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill_Boro Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Steak,What is the 60hp standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 The standard for $4 gas. To not be wounded by $4 gas you need to get about 40MPG. And any car that gets that kind of mileage will only have about 60HP unless it's made out of tin foil. Just a prediction. But only if $4 gas is the norm for a year or so. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 2009 Chevy Cobalt XFE is rated for 37 mpg freeway under 2008 EPA rules, has 155 hp if i remember correctly, and definitely not made of tin foil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky91 Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Yeah, but who wants to drive a Cobalt. No offense to Cobalt owners but I don't believe the majority of Reatta owners would be caught dead in a Cobalt. What's needed, if we're to continue to strive for economic bliss, is a vehicle(s) that not only delivers good economy but style and a little eye turning pizzaz. The Cobalt, Prius, Aveo, etc, just don't do it for me.. Am I alone in this?Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 You are definetly not alone. But some people like myself are eaten-up with regret at subsidizing middle-eastern economies, especially when I rack up 60K miles a year. I also seiously question the Cobalt mileage claims, since the Smartcar only gets 40MPG. I'm only trying to play economist here, since the formally trained ones have completely dropped the ball, first on the summer gas price runup and lately on the stock market crash. They were talking $5 plus gas this fall because of the release of the Indian Tata citicar. It's $2.50. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Keeping politics out, my mom's '07 Cobalt LTZ auto can easily get 36 mpg at 70 mph. Personally I've seen 38 for extended periods. The '09 XFE should easily get 37 and 40 if you keep off the gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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