lights but no action

[Guest snowdrift]

I had just purchased and coded a remote for my 69 yesterday, all seems fine. I also installed a hazard/signal light module today. After I finished I started the car and it started right up as usual. I shut it off and decided to put a battery charger on it because I had the trunk and door lights on for quite awhile. I then opened the trunk with the remote. I got in after the battery charge and when I turn the key the dash lights light, I have head lights, a horn etc, but nothing from the ignition. I don't get a sound. I have retraced the installation of the turn signal module, took the battery cables off and cleaned and still nothing. Any help would be appreciated!! Thanks in advance!

[Guest snowdrift]

Sorry, I meant 89.

[Guest simplyconnected]

Your ignition circuit goes through a lot of safety switches before it actually starts the motor.

At the expense of sounding stupid, is it in PARK with the key switch in START? If it's a stick, is the clutch pedal depressed? If you look in the electrical diagram, it will show your starting circuit with all the switches and relays. Ring it out, and you will find the answer.

[Guest Drake]

Sounds like the ignition switch or starter solenoid might have gone out.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If it's a stick, is the clutch pedal depressed? </div></div>

Are you sure this answer is relavent to reattas?????

[89REATTAJIM]

I had a relay go bad. It is located just under the dash, about 5 inches or so above the parking brake release handle. There are 2 relays there, can't remember if it was the Right or Left of the two.

Glad it was the problem, the neutral safety switch looks like a PITA to replace. Good luck... Jim

[Guest Bobby Valines]

I don't know if this will help or if it has anything to do with a reatta. I had a 89 camaro that i left the ignition on on for a weekend, jumped it, it cranked but would not start, waited about two hours later and started up and never had a problem after. I was thinking it had some kind of safety that shut off ignition.

[Guest snowdrift]

This baby won't even crank. I have worked on it all day trying to figure it out and I am dead in the water. All my electrical is working ie lights, radio, etc.

When I turn the key over to the start position the system even does the diagnostic check. Then comes back and states "all systems ok". I am trying to make sense out of the big manual but mostly it is over my head. One thing I thought of that I didn't remember at the time I wrote the original thread is: My alternator went out, so I went to Napa and changed the old for a remanufactured in there parking lot. I forgot to disconnect the battery and when I put my socket on the electrical portion of the alternator I got a fire storm, sparks flew and I could smell like something had burned, electrically.

After I changed the alternator, the car started right up but ran very poorly for 5 minutes or so and slowly come out of it so by the time I had 20 miles on it, it ran just like new. That incident happened about 120 miles before she decided not to crank at all.

[Guest Bobby Valines]

Did you check the wires around the starter itself? Go under there with a volt meeter and have some one turn key that will at least tell you were the problem is starter or car.

[juddev]

I once had this same problem, I cleaned the battery connections and then jumped the starter solenoid. The reatta started and the problem never came back.

[Guest snowdrift]

Could you please explain jumping the starter solenoid?

[Guest Bobby Valines]

Any luck on the 89 yet?

[Guest snowdrift]

No, I am afraid not. I have been working on it for 3 days now. I am about to give up on it and hand it over to a mechanic. The problem with that is I know he will just throw parts at it. If I could only find and disconnect the theft deterrent or anything to do with the remote I believe I would be in business. I have the picture out of the manual but I can not find it under the dash. I have looked all over the left side of under the dash. I just can't find what the picture shows. I don't know what to do next. Thank You for asking!!!

[Ronnie]

I will try to help.

The first thing you need to do is to determine if the problem is with the solenoid/starter assembly or if you have a starting circuit problem with the wiring, ignition switch or some safety feature like the park/neutral switch.

To check the solenoid/starter you need to supply 12 volts to the terminal on the solenoid (mounted on the starter) that normally energizes the starter motor. I would connect a jumper wire to the positive battery post and carefully touch the other end to the screw terminal on the solenoid. You can jump from the large battery cable terminal on the solenoid to the small terminal and accomplish the same thing but if you short the large terminal to ground you can have a big light show that you don't want. Referring to the FSM the terminal the energizes the starter has a purple wire connected to it. At least on my '88 model. I would assume other models are the same.

DO NOT turn the ignition on while performing this test! You don't want the engine to start now. ONLY TOUCH THE WIRE TO THE TERMINAL MOMENTARILY. BE PREPARED FOR THE STARTER TO ENGAGE AND THE ENGINE TO TURN. IF the starter engages and the engine turns the problem is not the solenoid or the starter.

WARNING!!! WARNING!!!WARNING!!! This can be a dangerous procedure if not done properly. I don't know you level of expertise in working on your car. DO NOT short the large terminal with the battery cable connected to it to ground. The result could vary from a shower of sparks to the battery exploding and covering you and the car with battery acid. IF you don't feel you can do the test safely take it to a reliable mechanic.

If you perform the test above report back here with the results and we will continue to troubleshoot your problem.

[Guest snowdrift]

Thank you Ronnie!! I do appreciate your help very much!! If I understand correctly I take a long enough wire to reach from the positive terminal on the battery down to the solenoid and then briefly touch the terminal on the solenoid that has a screw to hold the wires in place. This terminal will have a purple wire attached to it. Is that correct? Would a coated speaker wire work? That way I would have control of the wire so it doesn't ground. Thanks!

[DAVES89]

That sounds a bit reckless.

Why don't you go to a hardware store or automotive parts house and buy a 25 foot length of 12 gage primary wire. then attach an alligator clip to either end. This way you have a test lead that will handle any automotive current.

Speaker wire is way too light.

When I test circuits I atach one end of the aforementioned lead to the negative side of the battery. This way I know I have a "good" ground when using a circuit tester.

[Guest MauiWowee]

Better to use jumper cables.

[Guest Bobby Valines]

In not sure but i think the reason no one said any think about this earlier, there maybe sparks involved. This is a test most of us have tried at home.

[Guest Squire Tom]

back in the olden days when i had a solenoid problem and had to start the car , i just used an old screwdriver to short the terminals. lotsa sparks but it worked.

[DAVES89]

There is a right way and a wrong way. Just remember that what makes the Reatta different is all the elecronics.

Doing it the wrong way could short stuff out and then you have a big can of worms, and a whole lot more requests for help from this forum.

Be careful

[Guest NEMO]

You should check the ground and positive battery cables. This is where your the problem is. The cables are the first place to test.

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snowdrift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you Ronnie!! I do appreciate your help very much!! If I understand correctly I take a long enough wire to reach from the positive terminal on the battery down to the solenoid and then briefly touch the terminal on the solenoid that has a screw to hold the wires in place. This terminal will have a purple wire attached to it. Is that correct? Would a coated speaker wire work? That way I would have control of the wire so it doesn't ground. Thanks! </div></div>You are correct in how you need to connect the jumper wire. Speaker wire is much too light for using as a jumper wire. You need at least a 12 gauge wire with good insulation.

It appears from some of the posts that others seem to think they know more about how to do the test than I. I hope they can help you. Above all I hope you don't get in over your head and cause yourself more problems. If I were there I would troubleshoot the problem for you.

[Guest snowdrift]

Okay, I ran the test and the starter kicked over. I tried it a second time just to be sure and again the starter clicked in. I took the battery terminals off and cleaned them and followed all the wires and made sure they were tight. The reason I think it has something to do with the remote access is before I programmed the remote all was fine. I did start it once after I had programmed it and it started right up, after that silence. The only thing I did in addition to programming the remote is afterwards I charged the battery. I wish there was a way I could test for the remote and see if that is the issue. In the manual it shows where the fuses are and the relay but like I said earlier I just can't find anything under the dash that looks like the picture.

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, thanks for your help. I will await your next suggestion to troubleshoot this issue. Thank you!

[Guest NEMO]

Have you checked the battery cables for internal damage?

[Guest steakneggs]

You can buy a remote starter switch for $10 with alligator clips you can use for testing. No lightshow. Once I had one hooked up permanently on this old heap that wouldn't crank with the key. Steak

[Guest steakneggs]

PS: I just reread a thread where someone says to hook up the lead to the negative (ground). You don't want to do that. You want to use either the pos terminal of the batt OR the nut on the starter that holds the positive cable AND the purple wire terminal (not the other large nut near the starter). I'm assuming these are the only terminals on the starter. I've never seen a Reatta starter, only older GM units. This accomplishes the same thing as jumping a screwdriver across the batt and purple terminals but with no sparks. Steak

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snowdrift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ronnie, thanks for your help. I will await your next suggestion to troubleshoot this issue. Thank you! </div></div>

When the ignition key is turned to the run position do the red and yellow brake warning lights come on? Does the ABS pump run and the lights go off after about a minute? If not fusible link "C" could be burned out or not making a good connection. It supplies power to the ignition switch.

Assuming the fusible link "C" is good the next step should be to check the Tranaxle Position Switch. It is not easy to get to and may take a little time. (See photo 1 below.)

Remove the connector from the Transaxle Position Switch.

(See photo 2 below.)

Be CERTAIN the car is in Park. Connect your jumper wire from the positive battery terminal to terminal "G" of the connector, NOT the switch) in the same manner you did before at the starter. Did the starter turn the engine?

Next have a friend turn the key all the way to the "start" position and hold it there. Connect a voltmeter between terminal "F" of the connector and the negative post on the battery (or any other good ground). Did the voltmeter read 12 volts?

Let me know the results of the tests.

[DAVES89]

I am sorry for confusion on my part. I have done what Ronnie recommends.

I talked about testing circuits by putting the test lead on the negative side for a good ground. I did not mean for him to jump the car with the lead on the negative post.

I should have been more clear.

[Roadster90]

Ronnie,

I had the same symptom (I had just finished working on some other Unrelated item to starting) after working on my 90 coupe.... went to start the car and nothing. I checked everything I could do without any success, and then enlisted the help of Two Seater (Hal). He attempted to help/diagnosis the situation (checking the starter and solenoid, etc), but the problem remained. Then had the coupe towed to a GM Dealership where I knew the Shop Foreman. The problem turned out to be the ignition switch itself. There were two very small wires that exit the switch and run down the column Between the Switch and the column....one of the wires was shorted against the column from years/times of turning the key to start. I have no idea what the shop foreman did to diagnosis the problem....I did have a close to $400.00 bill though (included towing, shop expense, taxes, etc.)........hope this helps.

Nic

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, I completed the test. Wow, was that a job to get that connector off. Anyway, I hope you made an error in typing when you said G was yellow and F was purple. On mine G is purple and turned the engine, F is yellow and did nothing, dead as a door nail. Please advise. Hopefully, we have gotten some where now that we know the yellow wire is dead.

[Ronnie]

Yes, I did have the colors switched. I got in hurry. Sorry.

I assume the yellow wire G did NOT have 12 volts when the key is turned to the "start" position while checking the Transaxle Position Switch connector. Were you able to check that? You said it was dead. Did you mean it did not have 12 volts?

The next thing to test is the Starter Interrupt Relay. The relay is located behind the instrument panel, left of the steering column mounting bracket. The panel will need to be removed to get at it (See photo below). I have not removed the instrument panel so I hope Dave or someone who has will give you instructions on how to remove it.

Once the panel is removed, find the starter interrupt relay and remove the connector. Terminals 1 and 3 should have yellow wires connected to them. (See photo below)

Have a friend turn the ignition key to the "start" position and hold it there. Check terminal "3" of the connector for 12 volts with a voltmeter. Does it read 12 volts. If you have twelve volts on terminal "3", use a wire to jump between terminal "1" and "3" while the key is turned to the "start" position. (Be certain the car is in PARK and the Transaxle Position Switch" is connected.)

Did the starter turn the engine?

[Guest snowdrift]

No, actually I didn't have the key on when I did either of the tests. Should the key have been turned on? If so I will rerun the test. How I tested it was I had my wife hold the 12 gauge wire on the positive terminal of the battery and I held the other end of the 12 gauge wire and inserted it into the opening in the connector of F and G.

[Ronnie]

To test terminlal "F" (yellow wire) you must have the key turned all the way to the "Start" position and held there while you test for 12 volts with a voltmeter. Do you have a voltmeter? Just turning the key to the "On" position will not be good enough. The key must be turned to "Start and held there while you check for 12 volts between terminal "F" and ground (negative battery post is best).

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, on the above illustration having to do with the starter interrupt relay, You said it is to the left of the steering column behind the instrument panel. Do you mean under the panel by the emergency brake and near the floor or do you mean you have to take the top of the dash off, or do you mean the panel just to the left of the speedometer? Sorry, if I am acting dense but I want to make sure. Thanks again for your help!

[Ronnie]

The Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC) I refer to is the Panel that contains the speedometer, fuel gauge and all the other lights. It has a trim plate around it that must be removed and is held in place with a few screws. It just plugs into a connector in the rear of the panel.

Behind the IPC is where the Field Service Manual says the Starter Interrupt Relay and Theft Deterrent Module are located. (see photo). You might be able to access it without removing the IPC. I don't know. A relay near Item # 1 in the photo is what you are looking for.

If you can't get to it you could test the ignition switch next instead of the Starter Interrupt Relay.

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, I purchased a volt meter and tested the yellow wire just as you gave directions, I am talking about the transaxle postion switch, and it registered 0. I then took the entire left side of the dash apart. From the left side where the vent is, then the light switch and then the crt. There is nothing behind it except the two connections for the crt and all the wires for the light switch. How would I test the ignition switch? I tested what I think is fusable C and got 10 volts, I also tested the positive terminal on the battery and it test and 10.2 volts.

Again thanks for helping me! I am very frutstrated.

[Ronnie]

Your battery is not fully charged. It should read 12 volts with your voltmeter.

The CRT is in the center of the car above the console that looks like a small TV screen that allows you to operate the radio and AC controls. The IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) displays the speedometer and gas gauge. Which did you have out? I can't understand why you can't find the Starter Interrupt Relay. I thought all '89 models came with the Theft Deterrent System.

The ignition switch is located on the lower part of the steering column on the top side. (see photo) Remove the connector. Connect the black lead of your voltmeter to a good metal ground on the car and the other lead to the terminal in the connector with the red wire going to it. Does the voltmeter read 12 volts?

Be sure the transmission is in park and the Transaxle Position Switch is connected properly.

Next run a jumper wire from the positive post on the battery and carefully make contact with the terminal with the yellow wire. DO NOT touch anything else with the jumper wire including any other terminals. Did the starter turn the engine?

Let me know the results.

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, I have the IPC out, the one with the speedometer. I keep a battery charger near me because I like to keep the battery up, especially when I am working on it with the doors open and testing the lights. I will put the charger on it tomorrow first thing and see if the volts come up. I just checked my 91 with the same volt meter and got a reading of 12.7. Could the positive battery cable be bad? I will also check the ignition switch as you have explained above. I know what you mean about the starter interrupt switch. I had been looking for it under the dash for a day. I took the bottom panel off and I just don't see anything that looks like what the picture illustrates.

[Ronnie]

I don't believe the battery cable is the problem because you said the starter would turn the engine when you jumped the terminal with the purple wire on the solenoid.

The problem may end up being the Theft Deterrent System. I was trying to eliminate all the normal components that are in the starting circuit before trying to troubleshoot the Theft Deterrent System. The Ignition Switch is the last thing before the Theft Deterrent System.

About the Theft Deterrent System. Do you know if it works correctly?

To test it try this:

Put the car in park and roll down a window.

Turn the ignition to the lock position and remove the key.

With the door open lock the doors with the electric lock switch on the door panel. (not the manual lock) and close the door.

The security light on the dash should glow for about 6 seconds and then go out.

Open a door from the inside through the window with the inside door handle.

The alarm should sound. Did it?

Now close the door and unlock it with the key ( not the remote.) The alarm should stop.

Now try to start the car. Did it start?