lights but no action

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, I just completed reinstalling the dash and the transaxle position wiring. I run the test for the theft deterrent system and it failed so bad I decided to wait for more advise from you instead of testing the ignition switch. I followed your directions and this is what happened. I put the car in park, rolled a window down and took the key out of the ignition. My door was open and I locked the doors with the electric lock switch on the door, and then closed the door. The yellow security light flashed for a second and went out. I reached in to open the door but the door wouldn't open. I tried the same procedure on the passenger side with the same results. Please advise. Like I had mentioned earlier when I purchased the car it didn't have a remote with it so I bought one and programmed it and it worked fine for an hour and then my problems started. I mean the car would no longer start.

[Ronnie]

I left out the critical step of unlocking the door from the inside with the manual lever before opening the door. Sorry.

When you open the door the horn should start to blow and the headlights should flash. Does that happen?

I would go ahead and test the ignition switch to find out if it tests properly.

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, I checked out the theft detterent system, I had to do it from the passenger side because for some reason I can lock the car with the manual switch on the drivers side but when you try to open it, it slides as though it is not attatched to the rod within the door. Anyway, that worked as it should. I followed your directions and all went just the way you said it should again from the passenger side. I then tested the red wire on the ignition switch and there was 12.7 volts. I then ran a wire from the positive of the battery to the yellow terminal and got nothing at all. It did not turn the starter. One more thing on the test of the theft deterent, Everything was like you said except the yellow light did not flash for about six seconds. it barely flashed but did once or so.

[Ronnie]

If the alarm sounded on the car when you armed the system and the alarm stopped when you unlocked the door with the key, the Theft Deterrent System is working properly. That does not mean the Starter Interrupt Relay is working properly. I suspect that relay has failed.

One more test to the ignition switch to verify it is in working order.

Plug the connector onto the ignition switch. Have a friend turn the ignition key and hold it in the "Start" position. With the black lead of your voltmeter connected to ground take the other lead and carefully "back probe" (stick the tip of the lead against the back of terminal) of the ignition switch terminal in the connector that has the yellow wire coming out of it.

(If you cannot get the tip of the lead into the hole where the terminal is you can stick a straight pin (or needle) into the yellow insulation of the wire until it makes contact with the copper wire inside. Then touch your voltmeter lead to that) DO NOT let the straight pin touch anything but the tip of the voltmeter lead!! If it comes in contact with ground or another wire it could cause damage.

There should be 12 volts on the terminal with the yellow wire coming out of it. Did the voltmeter read 12 volts?

I have attached a photo below that clearly shows the circuit we have been testing. The path the circuit takes is highlighted in yellow. As you can see, if the ignition switch passes the above test there is nothing left but the "Starter Interrupt Relay" to prevent the circuit from being completed and the starter from turning the engine.

Obviously there is a Theft Deterrent System that is working on the car and connected to it is going to be a Starter Interrupt Relay, probably mounted nearby. Someway you are going to have to find that relay so we can test it. I have never had my dash apart so I can't help you find it other than showing you photos from the Field Service Manual.

After you do the final test on the ignition switch let me know how it turned out.

[Guest simplyconnected]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your ignition circuit goes through a lot of safety switches before it actually starts the motor.

At the expense of sounding stupid, is it in PARK with the key switch in START?... If you look in the electrical diagram, it will show your starting circuit with all the switches and relays. Ring it out, and you will find the answer.</div></div> Good job, Ronnie! Not only did you walk him through the circuit, you provided the electrical diagram! Excellent! - Dave Dare

[Roadster90]

Ronnie,

Not trying to confuse, but I might have with my "ignition switch" post/reply above. When I was refering to the ignition switch I actually meant the ignition key switch or maybe better described as "lock" at the top of the steering column, and not the ignition switch at the bottom of the column. The lock has two very thin wires that run down the column to the "ignition switch". These wires run between the lock and the column on their way down the column and can fray from the movement of the key turning in the "lock" and short out.

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, I should have come clean before but I guess I was embarrassed to ask. This thing about fusable link C. I am just not getting it. Because it is called fusable I guess I am looking for a fuse, when in fact it must not be. There is a rectangle red box next to the battery that has a lot of wires on top of each other, is that where fusable C is? If so how do I distinguish fusable link C from the other fusable links? Are they color coded or do they say A, B, C etc? Sorry I thought I would like to clear that portion of the electrical diagram. Thank you for your help and patience.

[Guest Drake]

Nic, on the 89s, there is no electrical connection between the ignition lock and the ignition switch. There is a metal interface called a 'rack' that activates the ignition switch when the ignition key is turned to the start position. I know, mine split in half, and the only way mine would start, was to have the steering wheel in the full down position. Once it started, I could adjust the steering wheel to any position.( Great anti-theft device)

[Ronnie]

A fusible link is a section of wire that is designed to burn out before the rest of the wire. About the same thing as a regular fuse except it is not expected to burn out unless something out of the ordinary happens and therefore is not designed to be easily changed.

Fusible link "C" is in the red wire that goes to the ignition switch from the red box you refer to. You tested the red wire at the ignition switch and you determined it to have 12 volts. If fusible link C was bad you would not have 12 volts on the red wire of the ignition switch. One quick test for a fusible link is to try to bend it. It should be a little flexable. If it is stiff and hard feeling it could have a problem.

Hang in there. I think we will get to the bottom of this problem.

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nic walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ronnie,

Not trying to confuse, but I might have with my "ignition switch" post/reply above. When I was refering to the ignition switch I actually meant the ignition key switch or maybe better described as "lock" at the top of the steering column, and not the ignition switch at the bottom of the column. The lock has two very thin wires that run down the column to the "ignition switch". These wires run between the lock and the column on their way down the column and can fray from the movement of the key turning in the "lock" and short out. </div></div>

Nic,

I don't see the two small wires in the circuit that activates the starter. Could those two small wires are be used to power a bulb that illuminates the ignition lock mechanism at night to make it easy to insert the key? I have not looked into it.

[Guest snowdrift]

I am going to attempt to send you a couple of pictures. The one is the ignition switch contact. If I am not mistaken the yellow wire is the one top all the way to the right. I can't identify that for a certainty but by eliminating the other colored wires and where they fit into it was a process of elimination. The second picture is of the rats nest under my dash. The guy who had the car before put some aftermarket radio and CD player in and spliced wires all over the place. If you can identify the relay that might be bad please point it out to me. Thank you!

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good job, Ronnie! Not only did you walk him through the circuit, you provided the electrical diagram! Excellent! - Dave Dare</div></div>

Thanks Dave. I hope we eventually get his problem corrected.

[Ronnie]

I really can't tell anything much from the photos. I do feel there may be some big wiring problems with all the splices. It is never good to see two different colored wires spliced together.

IF you can trace the yellow wire from the ignition switch it should lead to the Starter Interrupt Relay.

Were you able to test the yellow wire for 12 volts by back probing the ignition switch connector while holding the ignition switch in the start position?

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, something is wrong here.. big time, If DSC435 in my prior post is in fact the ignition switch area you wanted me to test, there is a problem I can't understand. In the attached photos I followed the yellow wire from the ignition switch to where it is spliced to a white wire. It then goes to the other side of the console. I took a picture of the plug it is attached to. The plug had black tape over it. There is another plug near by that also had black tape over the end. When I took the black tape off of that plug there are two wires coming out of the plug that are unusable, it looks like somebody did that on purpose. There are two wires that go to the other side of the console, the one, yellow, that comes from the ignition switch and the other that comes from this block of wires in one of the pictures that is attached That is also a yellow wire. ???? After all this mess I am afraid I won't hear from you again. Ha.

[Guest snowdrift]

I will try to get the rest of the photos in this message.

[Guest snowdrift]

I will try sending one at a time.

[Ronnie]

Follow the link in my signature line for instructions on the best way to post photos.

I still can't tell much from the photos. In photo 435 there appears to be a yellow wire at the top left of the photo. Would you please test that terminal while holding the ignition key turned to the "Start" position for 12 volts so we can eliminate a bad ignition as the problem. Is there 12 volts at that terminal?

I agree the wiring is a mess and looks like it may in fact be dangerous. AFTER we find your starting problem I would highly recommend you go over all the splices and check them for a good connection, remove the old tape and re-tape everything so you don't have to worry about a fire in the future.

If you will follow my instructions we will get your car to start.

[Guest snowdrift]

Ronnie, I did test that terminal and did not receive anything at all. I followed the wire and it is spliced to a white wire that leads to the connection in one of the pictures that was taped over. There are two yellow, or originally was yellow wires that end up at that taped over terminal.

[Guest snowdrift]

I will try sending couple following your directions.

[Guest snowdrift]

I did follow your instructions I am not sure why it only lets us open one picture. The picture in the top thread represents the second yellow wire going to the same circuit as the other yellow wire that starts out at the ignition switch. They end up in the connector that was taped over.

[Guest Bobby Valines]

I was a electrician for ten years, just a little word of advice. Don'T look at the hole picture,just one wire at a time,other wise you'll go crazy.You guys are doing great were rooting for you.

[Ronnie]

OK, lets take a deep breath and relax. Forget about photos for a while and concentrate on determining for sure if you have a good ignition switch or a bad ignition switch. I know it seems like I keep going back to the ignition switch but we must know and agree on the condition of the switch before we go any further.

_________________________________________________________

You must be absolutely certain that the red wire has 12 volts all the time. Does it have 12 volts???

With the ignition switch wiring connected to the switch, and the key turned to the "Start" position and held there, do you have 12 volts on the terminal where the yellow wire is connected???

_________________________________________________________

If the answer is YES the ignition switch is good and we can continue looking elsewhere.

I the answer is NO to question 2 and the yellow wire does NOT have 12 volts when the ignition is turned to start, you have a bad ignition switch and it must be replaced before going any further.

You must have a good ignition switch to logically continue with troubleshooting your problem.

[Guest snowdrift]

I just went out and by putting a pin in to the yellow wire and striking the wire within I did register 12.7 volts. I repeated the test twice with the same results.

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snowdrift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snowdrift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ronnie, I did test that terminal and did not receive anything at all. I followed the wire and it is spliced to a white wire that leads to the connection in one of the pictures that was taped over. There are two yellow, or originally was yellow wires that end up at that taped over terminal. </div></div>I just went out and by putting a pin in to the yellow wire and striking the wire within I did register 12.7 volts. I repeated the test twice with the same results. </div></div>

Now we're getting somewhere. The ignition switch seems to check out good.

Can you tell me what the number is of the photo that shows the white wire and the splices that you refer to above?

[Guest snowdrift]

I believe you are referring to DSC442. That is the wire that starts out in the ignition switch as yellow then is spliced into a white wire that ends up on a connection that was taped over.

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snowdrift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snowdrift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I followed the wire and it is spliced to a white wire that leads to the connection in one of the pictures that was taped over. <span style="color: #FF0000">There are two yellow, or originally was yellow wires that end up at that taped over terminal. </span> </div></div>I believe you are referring to DSC442. That is the wire that starts out in the ignition switch as yellow then is spliced into a white wire that ends up on a connection that was taped over. </div></div>

That connection you refer to should be the Starter Interrupt Relay unless someone had removed it or bypassed it. You may find there is a connector under the tape.

Here is what I would do next. Remove the tape where the two yellow wires and the white wire come together. Disconnect and separate them if possible.

Be sure the transmission is in park and the connector to the Transaxle Position Switch is connected properly.

Run a jumper from the positive post on the battery and momentarily touch each yellow wire one at a time. Be careful and don't touch the jumper wire to ground or any other terminals.

Did the starter engage and try to turn the engine when you touched either yellow wire?

[Guest snowdrift]

There was indeed a connector under the tape but there is no place to plug it in. I took the yellow wires apart from there mates and then checked like you said. I didn't get anything at all. I now can't even get any voltage out of the yellow wire coming out of the ignition switch. I tried both the bare wire and the terminal. I am about ready to push her to the back of the yard and let her set. It really is to bad because less then 50 miles ago I put new plugs, plug wires, pvc valve, oxygen sensor, air filter I flushed the brakes with a machine, There are new tires. battery, water pump alternator, and I just redid both lights with Barneys kit. When I started it up after I put in the new plugs etc. It ran everybit as good as my 91 with 29K on it. But, this has me worn out and confused. At this point I really can't afford to take it to a mechanic so the only option is the back yard. I thank you so very much for all your help and patience!! You are one of a kind, that is for sure!!! Best regards Ronnie!

[Guest MauiWowee]

Don't give up yet Snowdrift! Ronnie has been methodically eliminating components, and it seems like you are close to the end. Hang in there. I wish I could have him in my corner when I do battle with those little gremlins running around in wiring.

[Ronnie]

I understand your frustration. But don't give up now. You have tried to hard to fix the problem to quit now.

If it were my car and the wiring had been butchered like it appears yours has, I would do the following. Some people will not agree but it should get the car to crank if the ignition switch and the fusible link "C" are good.

Disconnect the white wire that is spliced to the yellow wire at the ignition switch connector.

Connect piece of insulated wire (at least as heavy as the yellow wire) to the yellow wire coming out of the ignition switch connector and run it through a hole in the firewall and out to the Transaxle Position Switch. Cut the yellow wire at the Transaxle Position Switch leaving enough length that will allow you to connect it to the wire you just ran through the firewall. Then you will have a new circuit from the ignition switch to the Transaxle Position Switch. (see red circuit in the photo below.) Tape up the wires that are needing attention so there are no bare wires.

See if the car will start.

[Guest snowdrift]

Thanks for the confidence. I just want to go over this to make sure I am on the same page. Where the Yellow wire, that is connected to the ignition switch connector, is spliced to the white wire, unsplice it and connect the yellow wire to a wire that is at least as large and good for at least 12 volts. Run this wire through the firewall and connect it to the yellow wire at the transaxle position switch. I am guessing you mean the switch itself not the connector, is that correct? If it is correct could you give me some pointers as how I can do this. I was barely able to disconnect the connector from the switch because there is so little room and the switch itself seems like there is no extra wire to pull it up or down to work on it. I know there is away, I just don't know what that is. Thank you again for all your help!!

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where the Yellow wire, that is connected to the ignition switch connector, is spliced to the white wire, unsplice it and connect the yellow wire to a wire that is at least as large and good for at least 12 volts.</div></div>That is correct. Wire is normally rated by the amperage it will carry. As long as the diameter of the copper wire in the new wire is as large that in the yellow wire it should be fine.

I don't know how you will be able to do it but you need to cut the yellow wire going into the Transaxle Position Switch and attach the new wire to it in order to provide power to the Transaxle Position Switch as shown in the last photo I posted.

Good luck with running the new wire.

[Guest simplyconnected]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: snowdrift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Run this wire through the firewall and connect it to the yellow wire at the transaxle position switch. I am guessing you mean the switch itself not the connector, is that correct?</div></div> I think Ronnie means for you to cut the yellow wire at the transaxle connector (P103), 2-1/2" back so you can use it to splice your new wire.

Just like Ronnie shows on the schematic in RED, Snowdrift.

Splice a new wire onto the yellow wire coming out of ignition switch connector (C202), go thru the firewall to transaxle plug (P103). Find the yellow wire coming out of P103, and cut it 2-1/2" from the plug. Splice your new wire onto the wire going into that plug.

[Guest neroco2]

Any Reatta owners out and about near Portland, Oregon out there.

Please let me know.

neroco2

Newberg, Oregon

503-538-9119

[Guest MauiWowee]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neroco2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any Reatta owners out and about near Portland, Oregon out there.

Please let me know.

neroco2

Newberg, Oregon

503-538-9119 </div></div>

You might get more results if you posted this as a new topic. Good luck

[cashbox]

This sounds like a key rack problem which means you may have to remove the steering wheel to get to it. I have had to replace more than a few, what happens is the ignition switch is fine but on the end of the switch there is a rack that pushes the rod in the colum which starts the car you may be able to check this by removing the bottom cover and looking at the switch while you turn the key if the rod does not move the rack the ignition rack is broken if thats the case replace it, if the rod moves with the key its good hope this helps.

[Guest snowdrift]

I will check that out. Thank you for your input!

[Guest snowdrift]

Hey, Hey success!! She is running again!! Thank You all for your help and support, which without I would have had a hefty bill at some garage. I learned alot also. Especially a big Thank You to Ronnie!!! Ronnie, Thank you so much for your help and encouragement!! What finally did it was Ronnie's suggestion as to run a wire from the yellow wire at the ignition switch to the yellow wire on the transaxle connector. I am one happy Reatta driver now!

[Ronnie]

I'm happy that you got your car running. I knew you could fix it if you proceeded in a logical step-by-step manner. Patience and clear thinking pays off.

It was not the perfect way of correcting the problem. You lost the Starter Interrupt feature of the cars security system by bypassing the Starter Interrupt Relay but it appeared to me someone had already removed the relay and attempted to bypass it. I believe that was your problem to begin with. I believe running the new wire as you did was the correct decision. It is what I would have done if I had your car with the wiring in the condition it is.

From the looks of your wiring I highly suggest you go back and check each one of those splices and taped connections and to be certain they are tight and insulated well. For jobs like that it is best to learn how to use a soldering iron and and shrink tubing to make permanent connections It will be well worth your time. It might save you from being stranded on the side of the road.

I'm glad I could be of assistance!

[Guest MauiWowee]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For jobs like that it is best to learn how to use a soldering iron and and shrink tubing to make permanent connections It will be well worth your time. It might save you from being stranded on the side of the road.

</div></div>

That is SO important. Tape and crimp connectors are nothing but future trouble.

Nice work Ronnie.

Congratulations, Snow

[Ronnie]

Thanks Maui. I'm always willing to help when I can.